[Otataral Toblakai]

Such a fight did happen when Karsa Orlong first met Icarium - but was ended from a blow to the back by Mappo Trell. What do you think would have been the outcome if this fight had occured (say later on, a la DoD).

Personally, I think Karsa Orlong would have won. However, it is a win win situation for Icarium in both situations. If he wins, he will still end up destroying a continent - and if he loses, his rage will result in the same.

What do you think?

[Defiance]

Fun question.

Before hulk rage? Karsa, definitely.

After? I'm not sure. Icarium can be driven back in his rage, as we've seen at the end of BH. People say it's impossible to kill him in his rage, but I never took that seriously - yes, he's ridiculously powerful. However, Malazan has taught us time and time again that anyone can be killed. There are no absolutes.

I'd probably have to give Icarium in his rage an upper hand, though. While he was pushed back at the end of BH, he also seemed pretty much impervious to damage; the chaos or whatever within him seems to absorb/push away all damage to him when it's awakened.

[Abyss]

Wolverine.

[MTS]

Abyss, on 01 November 2010 - 02:45 PM, said:

Wolverine. Caine.

Fixed to show what you really mean (or should mean).

[Ulrik]

Icarium doesnt fight...Icarium has warrens...moar warrens than Karsa...and Skykeep...and very sharp eye...and has cute bow! Icarium wins all the way...give me I...give me C...give me break... (just joking)

No, this purely speculative threads are...just to speculative and especially in case of those too. You can guess who can win in typical swordsman duel like Brys vs Kallor, but in something so special like is Icarium in his probably four types of being? (calm...Hulk...splintered and skykeeped...krullized) Its just throwing random numbers...did anyone said GURPS?

[Abyss]

Abyss, on 01 November 2010 - 02:45 PM, said:

Wolverine.

MTS, on 01 November 2010 - 04:44 PM, said:

Abyss, on 01 November 2010 - 02:45 PM, said:

Wolverine. Caine.

Fixed to show what you really mean (or should mean).

Not exactly.

The answer to any 'ho'd win' thread is always, without fail, Wolverine. by sheer force of zeitgeist, in any matchup, the answer is Wolverine.
Years and years of useless internet debate about whether Superman can outrace the Flash, whether Spiderman or Nightcrawler can climb a wall better, wherther Robocop can take a T100... and it all comes down to a simple answer: Wolverine. Because Wolverine always wins. beacuse legions and legions of screaming fanboys with nothing better to do cannot, WILL NOT, be wrong. Wolverine is the caricature answer to a caricature question.

Caine is a whole other thing. He's a level of badass that isn't reduced to endlessly repeated subjective ho'd wins. You can't say that Caine would or would not beat anyone. All you can say is that having been beaten, Caine would find a way to survive and then come back and garrot that someone, then bring a mountain down on them for good measure. And then wipe out their family, race and/or god just because they pissed him off.

[MTS]

I bow to my master's superior wisdom in this matter. But surely it is not a leap to say Caine could annihilate both of them with both hands tied behind his back while simultaneously pleasuring 5 women at once?

[Aptorian]

The Answer to Wolverine Answers is Magneto.

[Abyss]

MTS, on 01 November 2010 - 06:00 PM, said:

I bow to my master's superior wisdom in this matter. But surely it is not a leap to say Caine could annihilate both of them with both hands tied behind his back while simultaneously pleasuring 5 women at once?

That too.

Aptorian, on 01 November 2010 - 06:08 PM, said:

The Answer to Wolverine Answers is Magneto.

Not really. Every time Mags did something awful to Wolverine, Wolverine would gut him or chop his head off within a year or so. Happened at least five times.

Which just goes to prove my point re ho'd wins.

[Use Of Weapons]

At this point I will yet again direct you to The Comic Book Universe Battles, at http://www.electricferret.com/fights/, where all such things are decided.

[iRFNA]

Back to the topic, the answer is rather obvious.

Kruppe. Because Kruppe always wins.

[dktorode]

Iccy could sense Traveller was good enough to take him on...he has never had that "sense" or worried much when confronted by Karsa.
I recon iccy could still take Karsa even without rage mode.
Considering his reaction when meeting Karsa he has no such worry.

We never really see iccy fight without any sort of rage coming on...and when he does go all hulk smash, it becomes less about his martial prowess and more about raw power.
It would be interesting to see how good he was before he got messed up.
Maybe if he is calm and centered like a swordsman needs to be, he would be skilled enough to take out karsa....i mean just like Rake, he has had a long time to sharpen his sword and learn where the pointy bit goes.

[aahz]

I think on their first encounter Icarium underestimated Karsa - a common mistake, some might say. And yet, Mappo interfered to stop the fight.
And also, Karsa is one of the characters that grow most as the plot unravels. So, i think that sooner or later Icarium would have defeated Karsa the first time. But the second time, my vote will be "What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?".
A couple of other thoughts - this second reunion of these guys was kind of a lesson for Karsa - power is not measured only by confrontation, you don't need to battle everyone and everything on your way. A useful lesson in humility, since Karsa looks smaller, weaker in TtH, maybe because of the comparison with the forces unleashed there (mostly the battle with the Hounds of LIght). And maybe this is a hint for SE's vision of power, which he pointed out clearly in DoD (there's a whole tread about it - http://forum.malazan...showtopic=16263)

[End of Disc One]

Defiance, on 30 October 2010 - 09:49 PM, said:

Icarium can be driven back in his rage, as we've seen at the end of BH.

He wasn't driven back, he was barely held off. And for probably less than a minute. Icarium had the upper hand the whole time and Trull was doing everything he could just to stay alive.

I swear, I see that scene differently than everyone else on this site.

[Abyss]

End of Disc One, on 09 November 2010 - 02:28 PM, said:

Defiance, on 30 October 2010 - 09:49 PM, said:

Icarium can be driven back in his rage, as we've seen at the end of BH.

He wasn't driven back, he was barely held off. And for probably less than a minute. Icarium had the upper hand the whole time and Trull was doing everything he could just to stay alive.

I swear, I see that scene differently than everyone else on this site.

Not sure what you mean - I think the general consensus is that Trull was going to die like everyone else if the Eres'al hadn't intervened. What was impressive was that he held on as long as he did, lost, and then stepped back in to do it again.

But as we saw in DoD, that confrontation did leave an impression on Iccy with his new fear of spears.

[DagOban]

Erikson has already given us the answer: Karsa fought Icarium and knocked him out. Period.

Everyone underestimates Karsa, including us the readers.

[HungLikePung]

The two fighters are so epic, the world implodes.


And then somehow Karsa survives

This post has been edited by Karsa-Orlong: 27 December 2010 - 12:27 AM

[SilenceYourTongueAndWitness]

I'm going to look for the right scene in the book to quote but im almost 100% positive they went to clash, Icarium's sword sliced Karsa's wooden blade right off, Karsa screamed in fury, Punched him clean in the face knocking him unconscious on the ground. Karsa was walking over to make sure he never woke up again but at that point fights over, Mappo did KO Karsa but Icarium was already beaten. It may have been Icarium wasn't prepared or whatever but he was beaten fair and square.

[MTS]

Quote

Icarium's brows rose fractionally, then he drew out his sword. An unusual weapon, single-edged and looking ancient. He approached.
The Jhag's attack was a flicker of motion, faster than anything Karsa had seen before, yet his sword flashed to meet it. Blades collided.
There was a peculiar snick and Karsa found himself holding nothing more than a handle.
Outrage exploded within him and he stepped forward, his huge fist hammering into Icarium's face. The Jhag was thrown backward, leaving his feet, his sword cartwheeling away to clatter on the slope of the rockfall. Icarium landed with a heavy thump, and did not move.
'Bastard broke my sword—' Karsa began, turning towards Mappo.
White light detonated in his skull.
And he knew no more.
Mappo stared down at the motionless Thelomen Toblakai, noting the slow rise and fall of the giant's chest. Hefting his mace, he glanced over to where Icarium lay, saw a hand slowly lift from the ground, twitch, then settle once more.

Icarium wasn't in rage mode, but sure.

This post has been edited by MTS: 27 December 2010 - 04:58 AM

[Silencer]

aahz, on 09 November 2010 - 12:21 PM, said:

"What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?".

One of your definitions changes. I.e. SOMEONE wins. XD