[D'rek]

 Silencer, on 16 October 2010 - 11:26 AM, said:

 Werthead, on 12 October 2010 - 07:19 PM, said:

As far as I can gather, this is pretty much the northern, shattered coast of Korel. There's a bit more to the south, then the Aurgatt Range, then Stratem (which consists of an inland sea, a vast peninsular and some more land).

If the area on the map is 'just' Korel, then it's pretty small, far smaller than even Quon Tali. Stratem being a subcontinent of Korel suggests that Stratem is even smaller though. Interesting to see the full world map (which I'm hoping will be in TCG).

Underline is mine. Seven Cities has, iirc, been referred to as a 'subcontinent', too, though. I'm sure it was at some point or other in the books, and compared to Quon Tali it appears to be MASSIVE. So that particular word seems to be misleading...or the map scales are way, way off. :S

Imho, the Seven Cities "subcontinent" is the portion where DG and HoC take place, generally everything north of Aren, with the Jhag Odhan being a sort of border between it and the rest of the continent such as Nemil, Perish and Shal-Morzinn. Probably has to do with the HFE. Of course, characters being bad at semantics, the continent as a whole is also referred to as Seven Cities.

[Werthead]

 D, on 18 October 2010 - 01:56 AM, said:

Imho, the Seven Cities "subcontinent" is the portion where DG and HoC take place, generally everything north of Aren, with the Jhag Odhan being a sort of border between it and the rest of the continent such as Nemil, Perish and Shal-Morzinn. Probably has to do with the HFE. Of course, characters being bad at semantics, the continent as a whole is also referred to as Seven Cities.

Yup. Generally the landmass being described as a subcontinent is a smaller chunk of a larger landmass. So India is a subcontinent of Asia, Seven Cities is a subcontinent of a landmass generally referred to also as Seven Cities and Stratem is a subcontinent of Korelri. It's the relative size of the landmasses that count in relation to one another, not their overall size (for example, the subcontinent of Seven Cities is much bigger than the full continent of Quon Tali).

I'm guessing that the term 'continent/subcontinent' is used in the Malazan world in the sense of being a large body of land or collection of countries, not the geological sense. There doesn't appear to be a massive mountain range thrown up by the continental collision of Seven Cities and the rest of landmass (such as the Aurgatt Range between Korel and Stratem appears to be), unless it's a very recent event in geological terms.

[Thel Akai]

Instead of saying India is a subcontinent of Asia, isn't it much more correct to say that Europe and Asia are subcontinents of Eurasia? (There are two schools of thought about how many continents there are on Earth: 7 or 5. The latter group use the Eurasia term.)

[Ozymandiac]

 Thel Akai, on 19 October 2010 - 08:19 AM, said:

Instead of saying India is a subcontinent of Asia, isn't it much more correct to say that Europe and Asia are subcontinents of Eurasia? (There are two schools of thought about how many continents there are on Earth: 7 or 5. The latter group use the Eurasia term.)

That discussion basically boils down to the question of what the definition of a continent is. And, consequently, what a subcontinent is.

So, it depends on the situation which definition is appropriate. When talking paleogeography, I'd go for Eurasia, but when talking about cultures, history and people Europe and Asia are more appropriate.

Same for Wu, I guess. Regions that are isolated from the rest of the continent by a range of mountains (or, less commonly, a desert) can be referred to as a subcontinent. But you can also propose that a region populated by people significantly different from those of the rest of the continent is a subcontinent.

Although the definitions are not the same, they do not exclude each other. Both can be used, and both are in our world. The second one seems to be non-present in Wu, although I seem to remember that Itko Kan is referred to as a subcontinent.

This post has been edited by Ozymandiac: 19 October 2010 - 10:04 AM

[Thel Akai]

 Ozymandiac, on 19 October 2010 - 10:03 AM, said:

Same for Wu, I guess.

Slightly off-topic.. I can't remember that the world was named in any of the books? Is it actually called 'Wu'?

[T'renn]

The only place I've come across the name "Wu", was in the Bonehunters as source of two quotes
but there she is an actual person, apparently. Running an orphanage

[Illuyankas]

Erikson once said in an interview (or in a conversation with Mal or Hetan, or something like that, it's been a while) that the shorthand name he and Esslemont used for the world, that they stopped using fairly early on, was also the same name as a doctor mentioned in a Steely Dan song. Quick trip to Google and Dr Wu popped up. So if you don't like the word Wu used for the Malazan world, 1) It's my fault and 2) Suck it.

[D'rek]

 Ozymandiac, on 19 October 2010 - 10:03 AM, said:

 Thel Akai, on 19 October 2010 - 08:19 AM, said:

Instead of saying India is a subcontinent of Asia, isn't it much more correct to say that Europe and Asia are subcontinents of Eurasia? (There are two schools of thought about how many continents there are on Earth: 7 or 5. The latter group use the Eurasia term.)

That discussion basically boils down to the question of what the definition of a continent is. And, consequently, what a subcontinent is.

So, it depends on the situation which definition is appropriate. When talking paleogeography, I'd go for Eurasia, but when talking about cultures, history and people Europe and Asia are more appropriate.

Same for Wu, I guess. Regions that are isolated from the rest of the continent by a range of mountains (or, less commonly, a desert) can be referred to as a subcontinent. But you can also propose that a region populated by people significantly different from those of the rest of the continent is a subcontinent.

Although the definitions are not the same, they do not exclude each other. Both can be used, and both are in our world. The second one seems to be non-present in Wu, although I seem to remember that Itko Kan is referred to as a subcontinent.

While that applies well to our world, I don't think there are a lot of Malazans studying plate tectonics. Seems to me they are basing it mostly on political geography and demographics, ie the 7C subcontinent being the "nation" of 7C and its environs.

[Imperial Historian]

There is a nice line in stonewielder which sheds a lot of light on the whole continent sub-continent debate. The geography of the whole area works a lot better in my head after reading through it (but I'll have to go back and look over a few quotes).

I don't have the book with me, but the quote goes along the lines of

Spoiler

The koreli, a nation so arrogant they named their little island a continent

The term koreli also seems to be a generic malazan term, rather than the local name, similarly to other nations tendancy to call all quon talians/seven cities folk malazan.

[Throne of War]

 Illuyankas, on 19 October 2010 - 12:28 PM, said:

Erikson once said in an interview (or in a conversation with Mal or Hetan, or something like that, it's been a while) that the shorthand name he and Esslemont used for the world, that they stopped using fairly early on, was also the same name as a doctor mentioned in a Steely Dan song. Quick trip to Google and Dr Wu popped up. So if you don't like the word Wu used for the Malazan world, 1) It's my fault and 2) Suck it.

Nicely done.

[Werthead]

Approaching the end of STONEWIELDER, it is clear that it would actually be much more accurate to say that the 'Korelri' continent is a subcontinent of Stratem, which appears to be larger and extends further south, and that the situation in Korel is very confused. Korelri and Fist are large islands, nothing more (not much bigger than Malaz Isle) but Fist, at least, calls itself a continent and applies its name to the entire landmass even though Fist would be a blip on a map of Genabackis, Seven Cities or even Quon Tali (relatively a small continent compared to everything else). The natives of Korel/Fist have no sense of scale though as so few of them have visited other landmasses.

An interesting note is that, once again, the Malazans are aware of Assail but know better than to get involved over there. There's also a moment when a Malazan reflects on their armies having launched invasions on five continents. That's intriguing as I only count four: Quon Tali, Seven Cities, Genabackis and Korel. My guess is that they are counting Falar as a separate continent or subcontinent.

[blackzoid]

 Werthead, on 29 November 2010 - 11:50 PM, said:

Approaching the end of STONEWIELDER, it is clear that it would actually be much more accurate to say that the 'Korelri' continent is a subcontinent of Stratem, which appears to be larger and extends further south, and that the situation in Korel is very confused. Korelri and Fist are large islands, nothing more (not much bigger than Malaz Isle) but Fist, at least, calls itself a continent and applies its name to the entire landmass even though Fist would be a blip on a map of Genabackis, Seven Cities or even Quon Tali (relatively a small continent compared to everything else). The natives of Korel/Fist have no sense of scale though as so few of them have visited other landmasses.

An interesting note is that, once again, the Malazans are aware of Assail but know better than to get involved over there. There's also a moment when a Malazan reflects on their armies having launched invasions on five continents. That's intriguing as I only count four: Quon Tali, Seven Cities, Genabackis and Korel. My guess is that they are counting Falar as a separate continent or subcontinent.

The Malazan's attacked Stratem in order to destroy the Crimson Guard after they had kicked them out of Quan Tali. Thats when the Guard scattered. The Malazan's did not actually occupy Stratem however.

[Jorram]

Being aware of how everyone in the Malazan army seems to know everything about everything SOMEHOW, i wouldnt put it past them to be aware of the invasion of Lether, which makes up for a total of five continents.

[D'rek]

 Jorram, on 01 December 2010 - 03:26 AM, said:

Being aware of how everyone in the Malazan army seems to know everything about everything SOMEHOW, i wouldnt put it past them to be aware of the invasion of Lether, which makes up for a total of five continents.

The Cawnese merchants in RotCG were vaguely aware of the Letheri empire (and its exported goods), so that could easily be the case.


Furthermore, I just ran past Lord Commander Hiam (I think it was him anyways) thinking to himself about how the Korelri people were so stuck up they called their little island a 'continent', which pretty accurately reflects and accounts for everything in the series so far.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 01 December 2010 - 04:51 AM

[Jorram]

They maybe know of the continent itself, but shouldn't really know about the invasion by the 14th as this was supposed to be known only by the 14th

[blackzoid]

"'The Crimson Guard....' (...) Even Temper had to amit he felt it--a shiver of recognition and dread at the name. The mercenary company sworn to destroy the Empire. The force that handed Malaz its first major defeat by repulsing the invasion of Stratem, and which now opposed the Empire on four continents." - Temper (NoK, PSP THC, p.21-22)

Its Stratem for sure I think. although I don't know if the Guard were ever on Seven Cities and Korel.