[pat5150]

Okay folks,

Since many of you, here and elsewhere, won't find the self-control to resist pestering me with a panoply of questions about Stonewielder and later The Crippled God, I've decided that I would throw you a bone here and there.

Though these will be spoilers in a sense, they won't give anything away about the plot and storylines. And yet, they will get you guys going, hopefully leaving me to read in peace!

So here's the first one:

The artifact Greymane carries is unique in all of existence, but for one other. Anyone has any idea what it could be? Since it seems to be attuned to Burn, I was thinking perhaps Brood's hammer???

Have at it!

Patrick

[HoosierDaddy]

Considering the statement in RotCG it has to be attuned to Burn.

Also.... I cant repel spoilers of this magnitude.

[Liosan]

I love/hate you Pat... I would say that it is very much like Broods Hammer...

[The Seguleh 46th]

Wait, what? I just assumed his sword was blessed by Burn, not something the magnitude of Brood's Hammer? Oh my, i fell for this trap, didn't i?

All kidding aside, when is this book coming out? I feel like a 3 year old being denied candy right now!

[Excellence]

It's a trap!

[End of Disc One]

These are the kind of spoilers I can handle. Can't wait to read more.

[pat5150]

Okay, another one.

A second Toblakai character showed up in Stonewielder, which seems to indicate that they could be a bit more widespread than first anticipated. Whether or not these could be descendants of the families dispersed by Icarium, or just isolated pockets of Toblakai bloodlines is open to conjecture at this point. . .

Patrick

[saint trull]

Are these Toblakai Karsa level of power or are they weaker?

[pat5150]

Impossible to say at this point. . .

Though I figure that Karsa is probably stronger. . .

Patrick

[Abyss]

Thanks for the die thread Pat die. It's die neat to die be able to get at least some die bits without die major spoilage die Pat die die die.

The artifact almost has to be Brood's hammer. Die.

As for the new Toblakai, is that 'Teblor' as in from the Laedron Plateau on Genabackis where Karsa's people live, or 'Toblakai' as in pureblood T3 like Skullcrusher?

Also, die.

[pat5150]

We're not talking about Teblor, but Toblakai. Though one is of mixed blood.

I would have to reread the pertinent passages in HoC, but it's not clear whether Icarium helped disperse the Toblakai families from the Laedron Plateau on Genabackis, or if the Teblor's ancestors were themselves displaced from the lands of Fist, or elsewhere for that matter...

Patrick

[Vengeance]

All that I remember about the Teblor's history is that Icarium protected them and guided them to the valley were they broke into clans. Before that I believe that they had lived in cities and had a civilization were there blood had grown weak. I don't think that it was said were their civilization was from.

Totally possible that there were other pockets strewn around the planet. Much like the ones on Lether.

This post has been edited by Vengeance: 12 October 2010 - 06:57 PM

[pat5150]

Third spoiler is just a name: Ipshank

Patrick

[champ]

pat5150, on 12 October 2010 - 06:55 PM, said:

Third spoiler is just a name: Ipshank

Patrick

going to be interesting to know just how he fits into the weave of the plot given his history... or what little we know of it...

[Urizen]

pat5150, on 12 October 2010 - 06:55 PM, said:

Third spoiler is just a name: Ipshank

Patrick

Well, that I guess rules out Ruthan Gudd as Ipshank in a new body..

The ex-fener priest from the proluge is probably Ipshank

[Paran]

Destraint of Fener, yes?

[D'iversify]

Vengeance, on 12 October 2010 - 06:48 PM, said:

All that I remember about the Teblor's history is that Icarium protected them and guided them to the valley were they broke into clans. Before that I believe that they had lived in cities and had a civilization were there blood had grown weak. I don't think that it was said were their civilization was from.

Totally possible that there were other pockets strewn around the planet. Much like the ones on Lether.

From what recall their blood becomes 'clouded', i.e. through inbreeding, after their numbers are greatly reduced by some external perturbation. Icarium saves them by splitting them into groups of least-related and scattering them all over the world. What the perturbation was is unmentioned, but my guess is that it could have been Kallor considering his vendetta against the related Thel Akai and the fact he mentions fighting Toblakai in the past. The Thel Akai were from Jacuruku, so the Toblakai civilisation might well have been too, but I think that their differentiation from the Thel Akai might have originally been a result of external migration. And Korel/Fist is apparently the 'sister' continent of Jacuruku, implying its proximity, so this may have been the centre of Toblakai civilisation. In which case the perturbation that most greatly reduced Toblakai numbers would likely have been the Fall. Or does this sound way off?

[MTS]

No, I think that's pretty good reasoning. Of course, you're assuming Toblakai civilisation was centred in one area of the world, and then after Icarium the Toblakai began a great migration outwards in order to save themselves. The Toblakai were known at their height to be a seafaring people though, so I think that's unlikely. This is what is actually said about Icarium's deeds:

Quote

"I led the families that survived. Down from the high lands. Through the broken veins that bled beneath the sun…" Broken veins?'
'Ice,' Delum said.
'Bleeding beneath the sun, aye. "We were so few. Our blood was cloudy and would
grow cloudier still. I saw the need to shatter what remained. For the T'lan Imass were
still close and much agitated and inclined to continue their indiscriminate slaughter.'"1
Karsa scowled. 'T'lan Imass? I do not know those two words.'
'Nor I,' Delum replied. 'A rival tribe, perhaps. Read on, Karsa Orlong. Your eye is
quicker than mine.'
'"And so I sundered husband from wife. Child from parent. Brother from sister. I
fashioned new families and then sent them away. Each to a different place. I proclaimed
the Laws of Isolation, as given us by Icarium whom we had once sheltered and whose
heart grew vast with grief upon seeing what had become of us. The Laws of Isolation
would be our salvation, clearing the blood and strengthening our children. To all who
follow and to all who shall read these words, this is my justification—"'

Here there is no mention of crossing seas, only traversing down from the high lands. This would have been around the time of the ending of the Jaghut-induced ice age, which, I'm presuming, preceded (if only slightly) the end of the 33rd Jaghut War, which was roughly 300,000 years before Burn's Sleep. The Fall was around 180,000 years later than that. T'lan Imass were pursuing them, perhaps because they helped the Jaghut or harboured Icarium, I don't know. But the fact remains that there were Toblakai on Genabackis before the Fall, and we have no evidence that Icarium sent the Toblakai into isolation the world over, only on Genabackis (the very proposition that he instituted laws that an entire race adopted seems a bit incredulous). For the Toblakai to have been a great threat during Kallorian times meant they would not have been existing as marginal tribes with minimal contact with the outside world. I tend to think of the situation that the fringe elements of Toblakai civilisation, existing away from what seems to be the 'nexus' on Korelri and Jacurucku, were weakened over time by inbreeding, as they were likely few in number and bred infrequently, and those who did not isolate themselves became their descendants, like the Tarthenal, Fenn, Trell, Barghast etc. As for those on Jacurucku and Korelri, I assume Kallor annihilated those on Jacurucku as he did the Thel Akai, and the Fall contributed to the end of Toblakai civilisation on Korelri (I imagine there are still pockets of Toblakai or their descendants on Korelri and Jacurucku).

This post has been edited by MTS: 13 October 2010 - 09:48 AM

[The Seguleh 46th]

MTS, on 13 October 2010 - 09:46 AM, said:

No, I think that's pretty good reasoning. Of course, you're assuming Toblakai civilisation was centred in one area of the world, and then after Icarium the Toblakai began a great migration outwards in order to save themselves. The Toblakai were known at their height to be a seafaring people though, so I think that's unlikely. This is what is actually said about Icarium's deeds:

Quote

"I led the families that survived. Down from the high lands. Through the broken veins that bled beneath the sun…" Broken veins?'
'Ice,' Delum said.
'Bleeding beneath the sun, aye. "We were so few. Our blood was cloudy and would
grow cloudier still. I saw the need to shatter what remained. For the T'lan Imass were
still close and much agitated and inclined to continue their indiscriminate slaughter.'"1
Karsa scowled. 'T'lan Imass? I do not know those two words.'
'Nor I,' Delum replied. 'A rival tribe, perhaps. Read on, Karsa Orlong. Your eye is
quicker than mine.'
'"And so I sundered husband from wife. Child from parent. Brother from sister. I
fashioned new families and then sent them away. Each to a different place. I proclaimed
the Laws of Isolation, as given us by Icarium whom we had once sheltered and whose
heart grew vast with grief upon seeing what had become of us. The Laws of Isolation
would be our salvation, clearing the blood and strengthening our children. To all who
follow and to all who shall read these words, this is my justification—"'

Here there is no mention of crossing seas, only traversing down from the high lands. This would have been around the time of the ending of the Jaghut-induced ice age, which, I'm presuming, preceded (if only slightly) the end of the 33rd Jaghut War, which was roughly 300,000 years before Burn's Sleep. The Fall was around 180,000 years later than that. T'lan Imass were pursuing them, perhaps because they helped the Jaghut or harboured Icarium, I don't know. But the fact remains that there were Toblakai on Genabackis before the Fall, and we have no evidence that Icarium sent the Toblakai into isolation the world over, only on Genabackis (the very proposition that he instituted laws that an entire race adopted seems a bit incredulous). For the Toblakai to have been a great threat during Kallorian times meant they would not have been existing as marginal tribes with minimal contact with the outside world. I tend to think of the situation that the fringe elements of Toblakai civilisation, existing away from what seems to be the 'nexus' on Korelri and Jacurucku, were weakened over time by inbreeding, as they were likely few in number and bred infrequently, and those who did not isolate themselves became their descendants, like the Tarthenal, Fenn, Trell, Barghast etc. As for those on Jacurucku and Korelri, I assume Kallor annihilated those on Jacurucku as he did the Thel Akai, and the Fall contributed to the end of Toblakai civilisation on Korelri (I imagine there are still pockets of Toblakai or their descendants on Korelri and Jacurucku).

I like this. I also wonder who was the one writing this that had enacted the seperation, as he mentions "the Laws of Isolation as given us by Icarium" (paraquoted)? Seems to me that Iccy was merely the one to introduce the idea of cleaning the bloodlines, not the one to put it into effect. Maybe its not really important who the unnamed author is, just curious really, as he had to have some major power, or at the least alot of charisma to get an entire peoples to agree to this! And the proximity of that uber FA Calm for a possible explanation on their dwindling numbers(as far as Genabackan T3s go)? I think it states that Iccy helped bury/imprison her......probably nothing, but still. Then again, i think the TI also helped on that.....i'm confusing myself now! Shit! Sigh.........

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 15 October 2010 - 11:44 PM

[D'rek]

MTS, on 13 October 2010 - 09:46 AM, said:

No, I think that's pretty good reasoning. Of course, you're assuming Toblakai civilisation was centred in one area of the world, and then after Icarium the Toblakai began a great migration outwards in order to save themselves. The Toblakai were known at their height to be a seafaring people though, so I think that's unlikely. This is what is actually said about Icarium's deeds:

Quote

"I led the families that survived. Down from the high lands. Through the broken veins that bled beneath the sun…" Broken veins?'
'Ice,' Delum said.
'Bleeding beneath the sun, aye. "We were so few. Our blood was cloudy and would
grow cloudier still. I saw the need to shatter what remained. For the T'lan Imass were
still close and much agitated and inclined to continue their indiscriminate slaughter.'"1
Karsa scowled. 'T'lan Imass? I do not know those two words.'
'Nor I,' Delum replied. 'A rival tribe, perhaps. Read on, Karsa Orlong. Your eye is
quicker than mine.'
'"And so I sundered husband from wife. Child from parent. Brother from sister. I
fashioned new families and then sent them away. Each to a different place. I proclaimed
the Laws of Isolation, as given us by Icarium whom we had once sheltered and whose
heart grew vast with grief upon seeing what had become of us. The Laws of Isolation
would be our salvation, clearing the blood and strengthening our children. To all who
follow and to all who shall read these words, this is my justification—"'

Here there is no mention of crossing seas, only traversing down from the high lands. This would have been around the time of the ending of the Jaghut-induced ice age, which, I'm presuming, preceded (if only slightly) the end of the 33rd Jaghut War, which was roughly 300,000 years before Burn's Sleep. The Fall was around 180,000 years later than that. T'lan Imass were pursuing them, perhaps because they helped the Jaghut or harboured Icarium, I don't know. But the fact remains that there were Toblakai on Genabackis before the Fall, and we have no evidence that Icarium sent the Toblakai into isolation the world over, only on Genabackis (the very proposition that he instituted laws that an entire race adopted seems a bit incredulous). For the Toblakai to have been a great threat during Kallorian times meant they would not have been existing as marginal tribes with minimal contact with the outside world. I tend to think of the situation that the fringe elements of Toblakai civilisation, existing away from what seems to be the 'nexus' on Korelri and Jacurucku, were weakened over time by inbreeding, as they were likely few in number and bred infrequently, and those who did not isolate themselves became their descendants, like the Tarthenal, Fenn, Trell, Barghast etc. As for those on Jacurucku and Korelri, I assume Kallor annihilated those on Jacurucku as he did the Thel Akai, and the Fall contributed to the end of Toblakai civilisation on Korelri (I imagine there are still pockets of Toblakai or their descendants on Korelri and Jacurucku).

That section goes to mention burning their boats, so that could account for crossing the seas.