[Bent]

Peanutbutta, on 29 September 2010 - 04:12 PM, said:

Well, Bent, I really don't see what on earth is going to be suspicious in this game. Cheaters have no motivation to out each other (outs themselves), and there's no special hidden rules unless cheaters get one in their PM (which I doubt).

So you don't think we should be looking for cheaters? C'mon man

They don't have special rules but they have a chip advantage, shouldn't finding them be first and foremost our collective goal?

[Peanutbutta]

Bent, for the 20th time... what partner? The other cheater? Because they are certainly not partners.

Dibs, good explanation, makes more sense to me... although now I think it's extremely disadvantageous to try and become the dealer until the last round or two. Since we all know who the dealer is, it's smart to just lynch him.

[Peanutbutta]

And of course we should find cheaters, but the nature of this game makes it such that the cheaters have zero incentive to out each other.

[Vengeance]

Hmmm I am actually starting to agree with Bent. In a completely unrelated side note I now have an appointment with a shrink.

Remove Vote

[Vengeance]

Peanutbutta, on 29 September 2010 - 04:44 PM, said:

And of course we should find cheaters, but the nature of this game makes it such that the cheaters have zero incentive to out each other.

Assuming that the cheaters know one another.

It seems to me that there are three possibilities when it comes to the cheaters. One they are partners and can change cards and what not to try to win but can't communicate off thread. Two that they can communicate off thread but can't do anything else together other then make plans. Three that they are just two completely separate players whose only connection is that they start off the game with more chips then everyone else, but like everyone else they are looking to take each other out.

Of these three possibilities I think that the 3rd one is the most likely. It is poker after all and if we are all suppose to be sitting at a table off thread communication would be very very very difficult. Not having off thread communication would make it hard to know which cards to switch between them.

[alt146]

Bent, on 29 September 2010 - 04:07 PM, said:

alt146, on 29 September 2010 - 03:41 PM, said:

Peanutbutta, on 29 September 2010 - 02:18 PM, said:

Bent, IMO, Cheaters gain advantage by hoarding chips... that's their power. It would be fairly easy to just spend a chip or two every night to protect yourself from kills/instalynch. I doubt they are going to spend 3 chips a night... 1 on a kill, one day protection, one on the dealer chip.

About cooperation, I would think mutual promises to use heal chips on each other would be pretty effective, if a heal blocks all kills. Of course, guards could stop that, but that's expending a chip just to hope that someone else kills them... which I guess could also be arranged.

I think a heal blocks a single kill, the same way the BP stops one kill or insta-lynch. So an alliance of three people could still kill one member of an alliance of two people and split that person's chips between them. Although they would then forgo defending themselves, as you can only spend one chip per night.

Edit - by themselves I mean each other - they can put in their BP chip, but can only use a kill or a heal.

Just a quick point here to further my case against you. Ypu are assuming here that they would use a chip to protect each other and seem to feel the need to post it in thread so that if they hadn't thought of it they can now do so. To me this is signalling your partner. Saying hey pal, use a chip to heal me and I will do the same and let them kill each other off for a while.

Scummy mc scum face

I don't really want to argue with you, since you've obviously decided I must be scum. I would point out PB brought up the whole healing thing, I was just adding my interpretation of the mechanics. It wasn't even related to what a cheater should or shouldn't do, just how the heals work. Bigger factions can overcome smaller factions, but place themselves at risk doing so.

[Peanutbutta]

Well right now I don't see any reason to not vote off a low poster. Best place for any cheater to hide, in my opinion, would be out of any arguments.

HD did have the lame "I don't know what's going on" type of post, so that's probably my favorite.

Vote HD

[HoosierDaddy]

I'm back. But have to leave. Love the vote, PB.

Quickly stated, I think looking for "scum" hints is fairly futile today. The only difference between the cheater's and regular players is that they have more chips. Thus, I think this is just going to turn into let's vote for whoeverthefuck for whateverthefuck reason today (eyes PB's vote.)

We've got 4 people with single votes now? I have no reason to not vote for any of you. Something like that. I don't really care.

Let's spread the wealth:

Vote Shin.

Because of whateverthefuck.

Be back later.

[Grief]

According to OP, the cheaters know each other, but aren't working as a team.

To me, this seems likely to go one of two ways.

1. The cheaters work to take each other out.
2. The cheaters work together to take us out and settle it later.

I think it is unlikely that they will work together. They are each others biggest threats, so I think that they'll go for each other. They may ignore or even work together on thread, but a stable alliance seems very unlikely.

The problem is trying to figure out how they might act on thread. I think they will either ignore each other, or try and get each other lynched.

I don't think there'll be any sign of them working together on thread.

[Tapper]

Bent, you get everything upside down, or so it seems... work together... why would they?

/back to the real proper football.

[Bent]

Because I am awesome at being scum and its what I would do. Work together until I got it down to 4 or so, then stab the son of a bitch in the back, before he does me. A gamble sure, but its how I would play. Or at least attempt to. You see with no off thread comm, I would post some bs like alt did, to signal my fellow cheater, and see if he nods or not.

If he did, I would take his word on it, that at least he would heal me for one night anyway, and see what happens. ( I would also heal him, to make sure he knows he could trust me, at least until I decided to try and kill him.)


So while it may seem like i dont know what Im doing now, We still have to agree that finding the cheaters early helps whoever is alive at the end of the game, in case we only hit one of them. Another scenario is, someone decides to chance a kill, and hits a cheater, they get bonus chips for doing that, so to be fair, it would be better to lynch a cheater and split the chips imo.

Either way the only way I know to look for clues is to watch behaviorisms (my word, feel free to use it often) and look for scumminess (another of my words)and vote based on that. You dont have to, but thats how I roll.

[Peanutbutta]

HD, it's not personal. You know I like you. I will forever be impressed by the manner in which you conned your way to victory in Team Fortress 2, the original.

But I have to vote for someone and I have kind of a rule about voting for the "obvious" person on Day 1. Today, that's Bent for having votes and for giving what I feel to be completely erroneous theories. However, he's speaking his mind and not afraid to do so. I really enjoy people with competing theories who aren't afraid to speak up, so I say let him stay today.

I find Grief's theory to be mostly sound, except that I don't agree that cheaters may attack each other... a cheater that's going down will almost certainly out the other cheater in an act of revenge. If anything, cheaters are going to go for people OTHER than each other.

Based solely on that, if we are trying to find a cheater, I'd say find two people who are ignoring each other or who voted early for different people.

[Peanutbutta]

I've mulled over the idea of a strategy for this game several times and the best "communal" one I can think of involves 5 people just making an alliance, pushing chips in to build a chip stack, and then voting for the other 4 people. Of course, that's going to get the 5 targeted by the remaining 3, who are likely to jump on the train to gain chips themselves, and who may spend chips to ensure kills (double up on one person, for example). The "5" will definitely get whittled down taking down the "3" but will end up in the majority at the end.

Of course, there will be any number of opportunities for betrayal and whatnot, and since this is a solo game and not a communal one, I don't think that kind of overt alliance is really a good strategy for any one person.

[Peanutbutta]

1 vote for bent (silencer)
1 vote for grief (tapper)
1 vote for alt (bent)
1 vote for HD (PB)
1 vote for Shin (HD)

That's what we have right now....

Everyone doesn't really want to get singled out for starting trains, but we have to vote someone out.

Vengey removed his vote without revoting... in a game that really has no purpose to doing so. I don't care for that.
Shin hasn't voted.
Grief hasn't voted.
alt hasn't voted.

[Peanutbutta]

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't particularly care who gets voted out. HD was a good choice for being a non-entity earlier but he's at least voted at this point. Vengey doesn't even leave a vote, which implies some kind of cowardice.. and he's also a really low poster.

So I'm cool with voting Vengey, too. Shin, Grief, and Alt are all fine for me for not voting, as well, but a lower tier.

[HoosierDaddy]

My "whateverthefuck reason" seems ever so much more chaotic.

Like I said, I have no reason to not vote any of you. I can't figure out how to approach the game, and I'm kind of a bull in a china shop player, subtlety isn't exactly my game.

[Peanutbutta]

Well 4 people are online right now... me, Shin, silencer, and HD.

Why not just pick someone with a vote from someone other than us and then lynch them off. Fast, free chips.

For the record, that's Grief or Alt.

[Silencer]

Well, we could certainly do that. This game is going nowhere without a lynch, and let's face it, there's not really a town to work with or scum to hunt. *sigh*

[HoosierDaddy]

I'd switch to whomever at this point, really.

[Peanutbutta]

Remove Vote
Vote Grief

Just cuz I have a soft spot for alt146 after our time together in the Benses game.