[HiddenOne]

Abyss, on 21 September 2010 - 07:19 PM, said:

The thing with the Chancellor who was his own descendent now that, THAT was sick...

What? There should be a spoiler on that. Now everything's ruined! I'm going back to Harry Potter's forum where my sensibilities remain unspoiled.

This post has been edited by HiddenOne: 21 September 2010 - 07:47 PM

[Ulrik]

I disagree with your disagreement! He pretty nimbly adapted into new system and overlooked it from position od consort - he even (and actively) participated in court intrigues. Thing that whole system ran from his hands (aka Prattchets Small Gods) is other one... But thats IMHO future of most of Elder Gods not based on strong nature force like has Mael. System overcomes faith:)

[Abyss]

HiddenOne, on 21 September 2010 - 07:46 PM, said:

Abyss, on 21 September 2010 - 07:19 PM, said:

The thing with the Chancellor who was his own descendent now that, THAT was sick...

What? There should be a spoiler on that. Now everything's ruined! I'm going back to Harry Potter's forum where my sensibilities remain unspoiled.

It was in RG, so off you go back to the land of Snape/Harry slashffic and come back when you've finished a re-read or two and/or frontal lobe acid rinse...

[HiddenOne]

@Abyss - My frontal (and others) lobes were thoroughly rinsed in acid (and others) already, so I cannot comply, but I'll be glad to re-read, if it will make you feel better.



In context of "spoilers" I refer to the idea of ruination and decay, rather than unearned knowledge. Example: "Say, fellow! That mental image just SPOILED my appetite!"

[Defiance]

Having just completed a reread of MT a few days ago, I was surprised at how decent the Errant seemed. Of course, all of his actions were selfish (Jheck God because he didn't want to deal with T'lan Imass, Brys because he simply has impulses to fulfill his nature/aspect), but his douche-baggery was nowhere near the level of RG and DoD. For good reason, though, as others have already pointed out.

[haroos]

Defiance, on 21 September 2010 - 09:57 PM, said:

Having just completed a reread of MT a few days ago, I was surprised at how decent the Errant seemed. Of course, all of his actions were selfish (Jheck God because he didn't want to deal with T'lan Imass, Brys because he simply has impulses to fulfill his nature/aspect), but his douche-baggery was nowhere near the level of RG and DoD. For good reason, though, as others have already pointed out.

maybe he lost his mind ?
gone fishing ?
maybe we see him becoming insane.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

I think a lot of the change in the Errant's behavior simply has to do with him becoming an active god in the pantheon again. He's forced to be much more pro-active in pursuing his goals, in searching out allies, and trying to retain his place as the master of a magic system that is fading from the world. Also having worshippers/followers influences him as well (and let's face it, FW was not a nice person either).

[Hetan]

The Errant got wound up by a lot of things that were happening around him which he found he had no control over.
If you think about it, he'd been living out his peaceful life keeping the Empty Throne that way for a long time, a nudge here and a nudge there. Then the Edur arrived and Rhulad was in charge with his sword and the Errant was ousted.

Then came the new warrens which he found out about when the Malazans arrived.
Primarily of course was the discovery that there was Master of the Deck - that seriously pissed him off - to find out that he was outclassed, outmoded and superceded - he decided he wanted it all back the way it was before so he set out to rope in his old lackeys. Was anyone else surprised that he could commandeer Kilmandaros that way? because I was, seeing how belligerent she appeared to be.
Feather Witch compelling him and then stealing and swallowing his eye - bet that hurt.
Fiddlers' reading of the Deck on his home turf - that was a huge insult to him and probably that more than anything sent him on his path of vengeance.

[Abyss]

Hetan, on 23 September 2010 - 03:44 PM, said:

...he decided he wanted it all back the way it was before so he set out to rope in his old lackeys. Was anyone else surprised that he could commandeer Kilmandaros that way? because I was, seeing how belligerent she appeared to be.

Two thoughts on this. One is that in the end he got the other EG's cooperation through compelling argument, not allegiance or intimidation.

And second, that considering how willing kila and sech were to go along with all this, they may be more involved behind the scenes than we know.

Quote

...Fiddlers' reading of the Deck on his home turf - that was a huge insult to him and probably that more than anything sent him on his path of vengeance.

excellent point this.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Yeah i agree with Abyss. In DoD we were basically told that Knuckles and Kilmandaros are behind the leeching of the CG's power.

[foolio]

I know I am a bit slow whitted but I dont really understand what "the empty throne" is. Can someone enlighten me. I mean , Lether had a king on a throne.

[Sinisdar Toste]

the empty throne is the throne of the empty hold

[foolio]

and it is physically located in Lether? Is it incrediibly powerful?

[Abyss]

Bauchelain the Evil, on 23 September 2010 - 04:13 PM, said:

Yeah i agree with Abyss. In DoD we were basically told that Knuckles and Kilmandaros are behind the leeching of the CG's power.

...and to add to that, it's the FAs apprently up to no good and we know Kila and Knuckles are linked to that race.

foolio, on 24 September 2010 - 06:40 PM, said:

I know I am a bit slow whitted but I dont really understand what "the empty throne" is. Can someone enlighten me. I mean , Lether had a king on a throne.

Sinisdar Toste, on 24 September 2010 - 07:17 PM, said:

the empty throne is the throne of the empty hold

Actually, read Feather Witch's tile readings and it becomes pretty clear that the Empty Hold is the Meanas Warren, or there is a link between the two.

foolio, on 24 September 2010 - 07:22 PM, said:

and it is physically located in Lether? Is it incrediibly powerful?

Only in the sense that any hold or warren is physically located anywhere, which is to say not exactly. And just to confusficate matters, the same aspect could manifest differently in Lether, as a function of different belief and gothos' ritual, from in the Malaz Empire when the holds have evolved into Warrens and the Houses.


- Abyss, waits for it.... waaaiiiiiiiitttsssss for ittttt....

[The Seguleh 46th]

Was gonna hit on this, but everyone pretty much has beat me to it. I don't think he was ever a "nice God" (then again, none of them are IMO, Ascendents included), just simply was a God with not a whole lot to do. Sleep with some queens, noblewomen, noblemen, and nudge a few actions here and there. Rinse and repeat. Then CG decides to use Edur to invade Empire and Errant's world becomes a whole lot busier. Crazy slave girl witch begins worship and semi-usurpation of Errant's power slowly starts to drive him mad. Malazan's invade and bring fancy new Warrens, and a boiling point has more than likely been reached. Add to all this the melting away of Gothos' ritual, and an ancient and still very powerful sea demon getting into his head, and i can see him doing what he is doing. Is he a bastard by our (and my) standards? Hell yes! Yet i don't blame him for taking the route he is going, as of course he's gonna wanna repel this new and strange world that is coming to be for him (as would any God of the pantheon when placed squarely in a corner). I imagine its a terrible thing to feel being essenstially discarded like that, especially after being the biggest cat on the block for so long. As a reader, I actually somewhat feel sympathy for him as a character (the fanboy in me though hopes he goes out in a gruesome way!)

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 25 September 2010 - 02:57 AM

[lobo the wolfman]

Wasn't the 'Empty Throne' either Kurald Emurlahn or at least a part of it? and I don't mean Shadow l mean the Elder aspect of KE.

[Hetan]

The Empty Throne is neither aspected to Kurald Emurlahn nor Meanas - and Shadowthrone holds the throne there.

It is the Empty Throne of the Empty Hold - pure and simple, kept that way by the Errant

'The Hold that had existed, unseen, at the very beginning. The Empty Hold - heart of Letherii worship - that was at the very centre of the vast spiral of realms. Home to the Throne that knew no King, home to the Wanderer Knight, and to the Mistress who waited still, alone in her bed of dreams. To the Watcher, who witnessed all, and the Walker, who patrolled borders not even he could see. To the Saviour, whose outstretched hand was never grasped. And, finally, to the Betrayer, whose loving embrace destroyed all it touched.'

"The one who likes keeping the throne empty. In out in out in out, just shuffle them through. Nobody get comfortable! Chaos and confusion, civil wars and betrayals and blood everywhere! What a creep!" -Telorast & Curdle


"We shall be again, Knuckles. You were the Elder God who stood closest to my throne –"
"Your Empty Throne, yes."

[Sinisdar Toste]

i think the idea that it might be related to KE comes from the Walker. walker being the second half of edgewalkers name, but the borders he patrols he can see... important distinction i think

[Urizen]

Hetan, on 25 September 2010 - 02:41 PM, said:

The Empty Throne is neither aspected to Kurald Emurlahn nor Meanas - and Shadowthrone holds the throne there.

It is the Empty Throne of the Empty Hold - pure and simple, kept that way by the Errant

'The Hold that had existed, unseen, at the very beginning. The Empty Hold - heart of Letherii worship - that was at the very centre of the vast spiral of realms. Home to the Throne that knew no King, home to the Wanderer Knight, and to the Mistress who waited still, alone in her bed of dreams. To the Watcher, who witnessed all, and the Walker, who patrolled borders not even he could see. To the Saviour, whose outstretched hand was never grasped. And, finally, to the Betrayer, whose loving embrace destroyed all it touched.'

while I do agree that the Empty throne is not aspected to Kurald Emurlahn nor Meanas I have to say that I always took the above qoute as part of the Letherii meglomania.

[The Seguleh 46th]

Urizen, on 25 September 2010 - 07:26 PM, said:

Hetan, on 25 September 2010 - 02:41 PM, said:

The Empty Throne is neither aspected to Kurald Emurlahn nor Meanas - and Shadowthrone holds the throne there.

It is the Empty Throne of the Empty Hold - pure and simple, kept that way by the Errant

'The Hold that had existed, unseen, at the very beginning. The Empty Hold - heart of Letherii worship - that was at the very centre of the vast spiral of realms. Home to the Throne that knew no King, home to the Wanderer Knight, and to the Mistress who waited still, alone in her bed of dreams. To the Watcher, who witnessed all, and the Walker, who patrolled borders not even he could see. To the Saviour, whose outstretched hand was never grasped. And, finally, to the Betrayer, whose loving embrace destroyed all it touched.'

while I do agree that the Empty throne is not aspected to Kurald Emurlahn nor Meanas I have to say that I always took the above qoute as part of the Letherii meglomania.

The Watcher? I always liked Fisher Kel Tath to be the one who witnesses all. A walking history book, if you will.

Maybe the Empty Hold is that of the Unaligned? They belong to no House or Hold as far as we know, but they do have aspects, IIRC. And wandering seems to suit them just fine. I have no clue, just rambling at this point.....