[Sinisdar Toste]

KingTeholBeddict, on 23 September 2010 - 03:42 PM, said:

Hetan, on 22 September 2010 - 11:56 AM, said:

Gothos, on 22 September 2010 - 10:27 AM, said:

Could someone pull off some Quote Fu about Kolanse being inaccesible from the sea?

Of course it's not inacessible from the sea - it's a continent.

"Oh they're not gong to the Wastelands, my Queen, they're gong to Kolanse. They're just passing through the Wastelands since they no longer have the the transports to get to Kolanse by sea. Nor have we the ships to accommodate them alas" - Tehol (DoD)

But what about the Perish Thrones of War, couldn't they have met up with the Malazans there?
Also, if Tavore knew that she had to get to Kolanse, why did she burn the transports?

Mind you, I'm for the theory that Tavore knew they had to get to Kolanse, but it just doesn't make sense...

well i grant you that burning the transports was weird. i think it was more for her soldiers than for anyone else. like gesler said, it's so they know there's no going back. which is kinda fucked up all the same.

that being said, the aforementioned reasons for invading lether still stand. dethroning rhulad and destroying the sword.

[The Seguleh 46th]

Sinisdar Toste, on 23 September 2010 - 04:30 PM, said:

KingTeholBeddict, on 23 September 2010 - 03:42 PM, said:

Hetan, on 22 September 2010 - 11:56 AM, said:

Gothos, on 22 September 2010 - 10:27 AM, said:

Could someone pull off some Quote Fu about Kolanse being inaccesible from the sea?

Of course it's not inacessible from the sea - it's a continent.

"Oh they're not gong to the Wastelands, my Queen, they're gong to Kolanse. They're just passing through the Wastelands since they no longer have the the transports to get to Kolanse by sea. Nor have we the ships to accommodate them alas" - Tehol (DoD)

But what about the Perish Thrones of War, couldn't they have met up with the Malazans there?
Also, if Tavore knew that she had to get to Kolanse, why did she burn the transports?

Mind you, I'm for the theory that Tavore knew they had to get to Kolanse, but it just doesn't make sense...

well i grant you that burning the transports was weird. i think it was more for her soldiers than for anyone else. like gesler said, it's so they know there's no going back. which is kinda fucked up all the same.

that being said, the aforementioned reasons for invading lether still stand. dethroning rhulad and destroying the sword.

Ya beat me to the punch Sinisdar! Crazy as shit, sure. But still, by burning the transports she put the proverbial "wall at their backs" for the soldiers. We are here, and we are gonna stay. Invade, survive, and be witnessed by none. Or something like that.....

[Gothos]

Kinda like Arthas did. And... wasn't there something like that in the Illiad? The burning of ships, that is.

[Ulrik]

In Ilias Trojans tried to burn Greek (kchm kchm) ships...which really scarred them.

For Tavore´s burning. She wasnt decided what to do - or exactly to do - after defeating Edur. After reading she stormed HQ of Bonehunters, pretty upset.

"When she spoke, her tone was uncharacteristically harsh, as if rage seethed just beneath the surface. "The gods can have their war. We will not be used, not by them, not by anyone. I do not care how history judges us - I hope that´s well understood".

...

"The reading was an insult. To all of us."

IMO we didnt see all her activities behind the scene. Conquering Lether was first part, for her maybe key part to failing of CG´s plans. And after fall of Lether/ Edur and after reading she realizes that she was used. By whom - we dont know (except Hetan:))).

Or Im totally mistaken:) Its question if Perish and Khundryl were waiting or already moving to Kolanse, or waiting in space to make moves against Edur empire from east. Dunno, reread is slow now:)

And last one for burning of transports. Edur used really heavy underwater demon cannon. Losing whole army during sail to Kolanse would suck. She can presume that CG posses powers that he can invoke in Edur or other subjects...walking, even through Wasteland is safer. You can fight, not just swim and pray. Yeah, of course, if you count bunch of Nahruk furies, risk of drowning isnt so bad:)

[Sinisdar Toste]

that demon is trapped, it's not stopping anything or anyone from doing anything.

sorry to shoot down your argument. friends?

[Ulrik]

Sinisdar Toste, on 24 September 2010 - 04:52 AM, said:

that demon is trapped, it's not stopping anything or anyone from doing anything.

sorry to shoot down your argument. friends?

Withyour icon? Of course! Well he is trapped, but does Tavore know that CG cant "salvage demon storage" anymore? No:) (or she does and so is more badass than we expected)

edit: But to be correct, at the beginning of DoD she knows that enemy isnt CG. So se fears gods (probably isnt sure which team Mael chose) and FA (and know not much about power of AK...mmm...AK...most badass version is AK-47)

This post has been edited by Ulrik: 24 September 2010 - 06:43 AM

[Hetan]

Burning the transports was to demonstrate to all, her army, the Edur and the Letherii - there is no going back for the Malazans.
Not sure why this seems to be a sticking point. It has a two-fold effect. Hardens her army - they know they're going to have to fight to stay alive. Demoralises her enemy - this is one hard-assed army and if they're prepared to burn their ships then they're preparing to stay.

Strike hard and fast for the capital, subdue the Edur, deal with Rhulad and destroy the sword, then find out all you can about the Wastelands and the other territories you will need to treat with and head out to Kolanse. She can't afford to fight her way across those territories or to have armies appearing out of the blue so I think it's pretty sound tactics. In addition we have seen that sea traffic in and around Kolanse has stopped, nothing has been in or out for months at least I think it's months Abrastal talks about. Although I don't recall reading that Tavore actually knew how bad the Wastelands were before she got to Letheras and had all the Letherii maps (such as they were) at her disposal - does anyone else recall this?

[worry]

Masochists love lether.

[Abyss]

Hetan, on 24 September 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

... I don't recall reading that Tavore actually knew how bad the Wastelands were before she got to Letheras and had all the Letherii maps (such as they were) at her disposal - does anyone else recall this?

As a starting point something called 'the wastelands' isn't exactly likely to be disneyland, but there were a few scenes in DoD of the Bonehunters' command planning and looking at maps and so on, so i think tavore had some idea but wanted as much info as possible.

[Hetan]

Probably didn't express that well enough - I should say that I don't recall if she knew her destination was the wastelands before she got to letheras

[Kanubis]

Another thing I felt was that prior to Lether many of the 14th still didn't really feel like an army. The battle against the Apocalypse was a non-event for them because a bunch of dead folk sorted it for them. Y'Ghatan involved most of them watching a a chunk of the army burn up.

They needed to 'win' something, properly, via military means before they could be ready for the wasteland. It was a psychological necessity.

[worry]

Is that a good point? I can't properly tell anymore, but it seems to me like that is a good point.