[SilenceYourTongueAndWitness]

nacht, on 12 January 2011 - 10:14 AM, said:

Quote

The dragons spawned a child of indescribable terror, to seek out and hunt down Scabandari.

Who is this badass? We know Killy delivered the killing blow but somebody already pretty much destroyed him before that.

Unfortunately, SE can always claim this was just Edur mythology while leaving us chasing the false paths.

Pretty sure they are referring to Kilamandros (may have spelled that wrong) I'll check my books but i remember reading that recently and if I'm pretty sure there's a line that closes the link.

[Abyss]

Quote

Quote

The dragons spawned a child of indescribable terror, to seek out and hunt down Scabandari.

Who is this badass? We know Killy delivered the killing blow but somebody already pretty much destroyed him before that.

Unfortunately, SE can always claim this was just Edur mythology while leaving us chasing the false paths.

True but doesn't the Edur myth distinguish between the 'Child o' terror' and Kila the Elder God who actually skullpunched his brains in?

SilenceYourTongueAndWitness, on 12 January 2011 - 04:42 PM, said:

Pretty sure they are referring to Kilamandros (may have spelled that wrong) I'll check my books but i remember reading that recently and if I'm pretty sure there's a line that closes the link.

I don't think there's anything that links Kila to the dragons except her tendency to punch their brains in.

Nacht's point that this could be a misdirection is a good one - the edur could be expected to think that their 'god' could not be taken down by anything less than the combined efforts of the dragons.

The relevant bits of MT and RG are inconclusive. We see Scabby beaten to the point of hissing incoherence, and we see Kila and Mael standing there like they just did the job. we don't see what happens just before that tho'.

It's been speulated that the Otataral dragon was the Child o terror, tho DoD suggests she's a counterpart to Tiam which would tend to contradict that theory. or maybe not.

- Abyss, whose head hurts.

[champ]

Heboric in DoD after Kalyth's spirit adventure...

Quote

'...The key to everything, you see, is to cut clean, down the middle. A clean cut - that's what I dream of.'

...

'It is a flaw,' he continued, 'to view mortals and gods as if they were on the opposite sides. A flaw. An error most fundamental.
Because then, when the blade comes down, why, they are forever lost to each other. Now, does she understand? Possibly, but if so, then she terrifies me - for such wisdom seems almost... inhuman.'

Wild speculation time... And yes I cannot wait to be proved wrong..!

I been thinking that at the end, it will come about with "Wu" being a world of no magic... Or if not no magic, then a world as said in the above quote, a world cut off between mortals and Gods, no more interference, no more games... I had been thinking this before I came to this quote in DoD (probably way off the mark)

A couple of things to that...

It's said that the ultimate goal in this war itself is K'rul, if he were to die? Hmmm! But then there is the new magic of Icarium, maybe a change to the whole structure of the world, maybe not the need for anymore Gods...

And... Holy crap wouldn't that be scary, if there was no magic...
Karsa wanting to destroy civilisation and there no magic to assist in stopping him... Not that it would really help anyhow...

Also, "does she understand?" Am I wrong in thinking he's talking about Tavore?

This post has been edited by champooon: 12 January 2011 - 09:13 PM

[MTS]

Didn't make me feel dumb, but this is something I completely missed when I read it the first time, and since this is the first re-read thread I could find I thought I'd put it in here.

From SW:

Spoiler

Quote

They came to a long low hill, like a moraine, and there washed up against its side lay a great line of pale things like a high-water mark. At first she thought them stranded sea-life, seals or porpoises, but as they drew closer the awful truth of them clawed at her and she bent over, heaving up her stomach. Greymane steadied her.
‘God of the Sea preserve us,’ she managed, spitting and gasping. ‘What has happened here?’
‘It’s me,’ Greymane ground out, his voice thick with suppressed emotion. ‘A warning, or a lesson, from Mael.’
...
She avoided the moraine but bumped up against waterlogged corpses sunk in the water. Though their flesh was disintegrating in a cloud around their bones, these bodies appeared unusual: very gracile, the bones curved oddly, the skull narrow, limbs elongated. Very pale, of course, as the bleaching of the water accomplishes that. But still, very pale indeed.

Since when has Mael been killing FA?

[Blueiron]

This made me feel exceptionally obtuse: I've been doing a re-read of MoI and I only just understood the connection between Itkovian and the Refugium.
D'oh!

EDIT: about that "child of indescribable terror" what if this refers to the K'Chain Che'Malle?

This post has been edited by Blueiron: 22 January 2011 - 08:06 PM

[nacht]

Blueiron, on 22 January 2011 - 08:03 PM, said:

This made me feel exceptionally obtuse: I've been doing a re-read of MoI and I only just understood the connection between Itkovian and the Refugium.
D'oh!

EDIT: about that "child of indescribable terror" what if this refers to the K'Chain Che'Malle?

Are you sure. Do you mean the Refugium that Rudd Ellale is growing up in. Can you give a quote.

[champ]

Quote

Domination was an illusion. Its coherence could only hold for so long.
This lesson was a seared brand upon the memories of the K'Chain Che'Malle. Its bitter taste soured the dust of the Wastelands, and eastward, on the vast plain that had once known great cities and the whisper of hundreds of thousands of K'Chain Che'Malle, now there was nothing but melted and crushed fragments, and what the winds south they could not find, and so wandered for ever lost

Never realised that the glass desert the Snake trek through was a destroyed K'Chain city!

[Blueiron]

nacht, on 22 January 2011 - 08:58 PM, said:

Blueiron, on 22 January 2011 - 08:03 PM, said:

This made me feel exceptionally obtuse: I've been doing a re-read of MoI and I only just understood the connection between Itkovian and the Refugium.
D'oh!

EDIT: about that "child of indescribable terror" what if this refers to the K'Chain Che'Malle?

Are you sure. Do you mean the Refugium that Rudd Ellale is growing up in. Can you give a quote.

No, I don't hink it is directly stated, but I'm pretty sure now that the memories that Itkovian took from the T'lan Imass were what ended up laying the foundation for the Refugium. What evidence am I using?

Bantam paperback MoI p1074

Quote

The hand held firm. Itkovian began to comprehend. Behind the memories [of the T'lan Imass] awaited the pain, awaited all that he come [typo in the book ] to embrace. Beyond the memories, absolution was his answering gift - if he could but survive...
The hand was leading him. Through a mindscape. Yet he strode across it as would a giant, the land distant below him. Mortal, shed these memories. Free them to soak the earth in the season's gift. Down to the earth, mortal - through you they can return to life ina dying, desolate land.
Please. You must comprehend. Memories belong in the soil, in stone, in wind. They are the land's unseen meaning, such that touches the souls of all who would look - truly look - upon it. Touches, in faintest whisper, old, almost shapeless echoes - to which a mortal adds its own
Feed this dreamscape mortal...

there's a bunch more like this, basicallly just describing the growth of things in the new realm. If you have a different edition from me, its near the beginning of chapter 25.

It was clearer in my head, as usual.

EDIT: bad grammar.

This post has been edited by Blueiron: 01 February 2011 - 06:50 AM

[Ceda Cicero]

Regarding the idea that the Refugium = the place where Itkovian deposited the memories of the Imass, I recall thinking the same thing when we were first introduced to the Refugium, but I don't think it's the case... Isn't the origin of the Refugium explained somewhere in RG as being distinct in its own right? I thought it was somehow a "memory" warren, connected to the Bonecaster that sealed the gate to SD. Quick Ben says that it's "not real" but that the appearance of the Azath there in RG may have changed that.

Edit: It's been a while since I reread MoI, but I also thought that somehow the T'lan Imass memories were deposited in the warren where the Mhybe was wandering around/where the Beast Throne is. It was described similarly - tundra, lichen, all that stuff.

This post has been edited by Ciceronian: 31 January 2011 - 11:27 PM

[Sinisdar Toste]

i also think that is the world connected to itkovian and the t'lan imass memories. the mhybe was wandering the ancient beast hold, which had been the hold of the imass, back before the ritual. in fact, the mhybe is there when itkovian rains the memories of the imass over the land, she gets pelted by a rain of memories. how that connects to her dreaming the world real i'm not sure..

edit: unless she wasn't in the old beast hold at all and somehow, either through kruppes or silverfox's intervention or w.e, the beast thrones ended up in her dream

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 01 February 2011 - 01:42 AM

[Corabb Bhilan Thenu'alas]

nugget from DOD hard cover p799: "The K'Chain Che'Malle were going to die. The were going to pour their blood into him, souls crowding for his embrace, whatever that meant. The Matron who wanted all this was dead, but then...ain't dying the first and most obvious path into ascendancy, into godhood? Though eating the front of her skull, that's just sick. She'll make 'em pay for that, now that she's a goddess or whatever.", Stormy musing on the eve of battle with the Nah'ruk.
So now, the Matron is goddess, Kalyth-destriant Stormy and Gesler are sword and shield, a priest hood of non-geckos...can it work?
The lizard nation may be experiencing a rebirth instead of continuing their decline, now that they have a god.
Just like the Andii with MD returning, Niander taking over and Twilight and her bad-assed brother in Kharkanas.
Of course, I thought that about the Barghast following MoI and look how THAT turned out... geez!

Behold the power of chee- I mean a re-read!

[QuickTidal]

Kanubis, on 20 August 2010 - 09:27 AM, said:

Erayle, on 20 August 2010 - 12:40 AM, said:

I only found out the Whirldwind Godess was Onrack's wife after my 2nd re-read of HoC...had a big FACEPALM moment. 

Exactly the same for me with that one - 2nd re-read.

Fuck.


Fuck.



Only read HoC once so far....had no idea. DOH!

[Corabb Bhilan Thenu'alas]

On a reread of house of chains stumbled across an interesting "coincidence". What do torvald nom and good ol' setchul lath have in common? AKA's! SE is SICK!

[MTS]

AKA's?

[HoosierDaddy]

Is Torvald Nom's nickname Knuckles?

No idea. (AKA - also known as?)

[Illuyankas]

Pfft, like Apocalypse Nom would ever masquerade as some sissy mummy's boy antique deity.

[nacht]

Just finished a DoD reread and missed a lot thing before.

Trell have Venath Demon Genes in them

The Nachts are both Divers and Soletaken Demons.

K'Chain Chemalle fought the Tartheno Thelomen Toblakai and were worse it. It seems that the Toblaka really whipped them.

The Tiste Edure are bastard get of the Shake. It was mentioned that prince Scabandari had killed the original royalty of Shadow.

Also missed that the Shake were attacked both by Andii and Liiosan. (not just Liosan as I originally thought)


Now for some wild theories :-) Quick Ben is blind Galan, Seneschal of the court of mages of Kharkanas.

[Roldom]

wasnt blind galan the blind nutter who tried to create a god inside dragnpr?

[MTS]

No, that was Kadaspala, Andarist's brother-in-law, who blinded himself and tried to steal Dragnipur from Draconus.

[Jingospice]

Haha, I had forgot a bout that part too, but later there was a reference to a dislike of spears and a reference to the one who wouldnt back down or something like that (i thought it was obvious after that)

Gothos, on 20 August 2010 - 11:07 AM, said:

Erayle, on 20 August 2010 - 12:40 AM, said:

Oh, and that whole bit in DoD with Icarium as a ghost, with Taxillian, Feather Witch, and all the rest, I didn't even know they were a part of his conscience. Massive OMGWTFBBQ moment.

I had this too. I totally forgot about the passage near the beginning of the book saying that there was a single figure walking across the wasteland talking to itself in multiple voices. Made me rage later about Icarium being in the Rooted pulled out of the ass. Very humilliating.