[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 27 August 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

RIDE DEAD/DED-THREAD.... RIIIIIIIISE...


I wasn't going to read this book until the decalogy was nearly finished.

I dl'd the earbook it when i grabbed the MISTBORN trilo, but REALLY wasn't going to read this book given how tepid i felt about the MISTBORN.



But, there i was, a hour to kill, and the two other earbooks i had handy sucked.... so.... i started WAY OF KINGS.

And got sucked right in. I'm hooked. It was awesome. Damn you Sanderson, my vow to avoid multi-volume fantasy epics until they're done is fucked yet again. I have WORDS ready to go.

Seriously, WOK is Sanderson hitting his stride as storyteller and author. It's a great fantasy world, well realized with an interesting history. The characters - Calidan, Dalimar, Shallan, even Zeth - are archetypical, but the world and situations he puts them in are sufficiently novel and striking that i don't care.

And his 'magic system' was some of the most fun different stuff i've read in a while. Not the Shards so much, but stormlight, the lashings, soulbinding.... it's just nice to read a book and not feel like i've seen most of it before. Sanderson accomplishes this repeatedly through the book. The whole Light-eyes / Dark-eyes thing was perhaps a little too close to Mistborn's Nobles / Skaa , but less annoying... credit to Brandon for making it less of a 'just the way things are' and more of an actual society.

And the twists at the end... SPOILERS


SPOILERS


SPOILERS

i saw the revelation about Dalimar's mysterious voice coming, but giving up his shardblade for Bridge 4... Shallan's discovery about the Parshmen... those were awesome.

And Bridge 4... Calidan has his whiny moments, at times too much so, but overall his storyline with Syl and the bridge crew and how it evolves to that finale is just some of the best fantasy i've read in a while.

And Zeth was just genuinely a treat to read... the novelty of his powers added a really nice touch to an otherwise unoriginal, albeit really well written, honor-bound conflicted assassin plotline. Tho i admit that every time someone new picked up the stupid rock and Zeth was obliged to obey them, i groaned a bit. That was ok tho because his action scenes.. i don't think i've ever read another author use gravity as a weapon that way.

Liked the xplanation of the chapter-opener quotes.. the last scene at the hospital was suitably creepy and clever.

Great great book.

Dammit.

Most EPIC scene?

Spoiler

Kalidan leaping halfway across the chasm, sucking in the stormlight from the fetishes in the Parshendi beards and hair and using it to complete the jump. I was just like Goggle-eyed HOLY FUCKING FUCK!

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 27 August 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

Most EPIC scene?

Spoiler

Kalidan leaping halfway across the chasm, sucking in the stormlight from the fetishes in the Parshendi beards and hair and using it to complete the jump. I was just like Goggle-eyed HOLY FUCKING FUCK!

Oh fuck yes that. The set up/payoff there was HUGE.
Also brilliant....

Spoiler

Dalimar catching the Chasm fiend's claw.
Zeth annihilating a small army including three shard bearers.
The first time Bridge 4 executes the side carry.
Calidan taking out his first shardbearer

[Abyss]

I've picked up bits of the Cosmere stuff throughout Mistborn, WoK, and WoR (thus far). I don't specifically remember any from Elantris.



About halfway through WORDS...


SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS


Szeth just took his shot at Dalinar... fuck me that fight was awesome. The Blackthorn is badass even without his shards.

Kaladin is still whiningly emo but i enjoy his storyline overall.

I'm hoping Adolin's storyline isn't going the way i think it's going because that's just too obvious on a few fronts.

Shallan is getting on my nerves but manages to draw me back in every third segment or so.

Eshonai is a lot of fun. Nicely non-human and credit to Brandon for making that work.

[Andorion]

Abyss, on 11 September 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

I've picked up bits of the Cosmere stuff throughout Mistborn, WoK, and WoR (thus far). I don't specifically remember any from Elantris.



About halfway through WORDS...


SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS


Szeth just took his shot at Dalinar... fuck me that fight was awesome. The Blackthorn is badass even without his shards.

Kaladin is still whiningly emo but i enjoy his storyline overall.

I'm hoping Adolin's storyline isn't going the way i think it's going because that's just too obvious on a few fronts.

Shallan is getting on my nerves but manages to draw me back in every third segment or so.

Eshonai is a lot of fun. Nicely non-human and credit to Brandon for making that work.

That fight just made my day when I read it

[Abyss]

Andorion, on 11 September 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

Abyss, on 11 September 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

...


SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS


Szeth just took his shot at Dalinar... fuck me that fight was awesome. The Blackthorn is badass even without his shards.
...

That fight just made my day when I read it

I listened to it, then relistened to it, then pulled the car over so i could really listen to it.

Last time i did that was Bridge 4's run at the climax of WAY.

[Andorion]

Abyss, on 11 September 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

Andorion, on 11 September 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

Abyss, on 11 September 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

...


SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS


Szeth just took his shot at Dalinar... fuck me that fight was awesome. The Blackthorn is badass even without his shards.
...

That fight just made my day when I read it

I listened to it, then relistened to it, then pulled the car over so i could really listen to it.

Last time i did that was Bridge 4's run at the climax of WAY.

I think the best part about SLA is the awesome fight scenes. They are a big improvement over the Mistborn fights many of which read like video game scenes.

[QuickTidal]

I may be the only person who not only likes Shallan, but looks fwd to her chapters.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 11 September 2015 - 05:28 PM

[Andorion]

Briar King, on 11 September 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 11 September 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

I may be the only person who not only likes Shallan, but looks fwd to her chapters.

I'm sure you are.

Ha. She annoys the hell out of me but she was so so so much better in WoR.

Hey I like Shallan too!

[End of Disc One]

Brandon has said that he wrote WoR to be like a trilogy within itself. The Szeth fight was the end of "part 1," even though the book is divided into 5 parts. I found all 3 endings to be major adrenaline rushes.

[Abyss]

Andorion, on 11 September 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

Briar King, on 11 September 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 11 September 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

I may be the only person who not only likes Shallan, but looks fwd to her chapters.

I'm sure you are.

Ha. She annoys the hell out of me but she was so so so much better in WoR.

Hey I like Shallan too!

I generally like her, but some of the time she's been a bit less interesting this book. She's a great source of information, but her moments of awesome are a little more spread out and her naivete at times is just silly or inconsistent.

She's also in danger of falling into the ever-irritating 'keeping secrets for the sake of keeping secrets' plot device.


But hey, i liked Nynaeve in WoT.

[Andorion]

Abyss, on 11 September 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

Andorion, on 11 September 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

Briar King, on 11 September 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 11 September 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

I may be the only person who not only likes Shallan, but looks fwd to her chapters.

I'm sure you are.

Ha. She annoys the hell out of me but she was so so so much better in WoR.

Hey I like Shallan too!

I generally like her, but some of the time she's been a bit less interesting this book. She's a great source of information, but her moments of awesome are a little more spread out and her naivete at times is just silly or inconsistent.

She's also in danger of falling into the ever-irritating 'keeping secrets for the sake of keeping secrets' plot device.


But hey, i liked Nynaeve in WoT.

At least Shallan tries to be funny....

[Werthead]

The Stormlight Archive Book 3: Oathbringer

Quote

The world of Roshar stands in peril. The ancient, dark force of Odium has returned and the Voidbringer armies have come with him, subverting the parshmen, former slaves of humanity. Dalinar Kholin, the Blackthorn, one of the most feared warriors on the planet, finds himself tasked with leading the reformed Knights Radiant and uniting the world against this new threat. But to accomplish this he must overcome his own reputation as a bloodthirsty tyrant and make peace with his own, half-forgotten past.

Oathbringer, the third volume of The Stormlight Archive sequence, is a big book. At just under 500,000 words in length, it may be the second-longest epic fantasy novel ever written, behind only Tad Williams' To Green Angel Tower and significantly longer than The Lord of the Rings in its entirety. Clocking in at 1,250 pages of fairly small print, reading it is a mammoth undertaking. At regular points in the narrative the saying "journey before destination" is uttered by key characters, perhaps a message from the author to keep going and stay the course.

The Stormlight Archive is certainly Sanderson's most ambitious work to date - seven more books are planned in this series alone, and many more in the linked Cosmere universe - and also his most accomplished. Sanderson has always been a skilled worldbuilder, creator of magic systems and an eager student of epic fantasy, learning from other authors in the genre, but this series has also seen those areas where he was lacking in earlier works, such as nuanced characterisation and the depiction of a large and diverse cast of characters, step up a notch. This is a solid series, but it's also one that has often creaked under the weight of its own complexity, and Oathbringer is almost brought low by the weight of the material.

At its heart, Oathbringer is a simple story: Dalinar Kholin is, for lack of a better term, the Chosen One who must united the world against, an ancient returning evil. However, he is also tainted by his own past in which he was a warrior with a reputation for savagery and butchery. The challenge he faces in Oathbringer is dual-pronged. Externally, he must work to unify the kingdoms of Roshar against the renewed Voidbringer threat. Internally, he must overcome the demons of his past. This is complicated because he deliberately suppressed his past through magical means to remove the pain of an event involving his wife. This is - rather more literally than is normal - the traditional story of a protagonist going through self-realisation and healing a past wound in order to achieve a necessary goal in the story. Whilst traditional, it makes Dalinar a far more relatable figure (but not always a more sympathetic one: Sanderson does not absolve Dalinar of the horrible acts he committed whilst younger).

However, this simple story is almost drowned under pages and pages and chapters and chapters of "other stuff." Heralds. Knights Radiant. Voidbringers. Shadesmar. Spren. Stormsurging. Soulbinding. The Recreance (which is set up as A Major Revelation and turns out to be merely the characters of Roshar learning something that readers of the wider Cosmere series will already be aware of). The Diagram (an epic fantasy take on Isaac Asimov's Foundation). Magical talking swords that you need to have read a completely different book (Warbreaker) to fully understand. There is a lot of stuff going on in this book, often requiring pages and pages of exposition, but only some of it is really relevant to the plot at hand. By the time I finished Oathbringer I was feeling nostalgic for Steven Erikson's more opaque but far more successful approach to worldbuilding and magic systems (explain what's needed, just let other stuff that's not unfold in the background and move on).

There's also a great deal of repetition in the book. The first half of the novel, in particular, is slow-moving with constant and repetitive strategy meetings and characters meeting up to discuss the plot which they - and we - already know about. Aside from some surprising new information about the returned Voidbringers, relatively little in this section of the book justifies the immense word count it took to get there.

Fortunately, the second half moves a lot faster. We get two massive climactic battles in key locations and a trip to the Shadesmar dimension, which underpins not just Roshar in the Stormlight Archive but all the planets in the wider Cosmere, so getting to see it in more detail is interesting. This side-story is also relatively brief and constrained, feeling like a tighter self-contained novella within the larger novel. The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance both did this a lot, with what felt like short stories contained within the larger novel that were there to flesh out the world and backstory but be entertaining in their own right. Oathbringer does this comparatively rarely, and not as successfully.

The concluding battle and accompanying revelations is epic and well-handled (maybe a little too long with a few too many reversals of fortune, but still relatively brisk compared to the rest of the book). There's some firm new understandings of the world and the stakes involved in the struggle against Odium. But the overwhelming feeling is that we could have reached this conclusion far more quickly and far more concisely.

More problematic, there is a very strong echo of Sanderson's earlier Mistborn series in how this volume unfolds. That trilogy saw a group of young, inexperienced characters discovering amazing magical powers and coming to a firmer understanding of their nature and how to use them when they get involved in the ancient struggle between the godlike Shard-holders resulting from the Shattering of Adonalsium, with the mysterious Hoid popping up a couple of times to help them. This is pretty much exactly what happens in Oathbringer, with just the magic systems and the characters swapped around. This is exacerbated by the fact that at the very end of Oathbringer Sanderson has an opportunity to do a ninety-degree turn and take one character in a very different and far darker direction that would have been much more original and interesting, but ultimately chooses a more traditional resolution to that story which feels like a massive missed opportunity.

By the time I finished the book I felt conflicted. On the one hand, my admiration for Sanderson's worldbuilding, plot construction and his continuing self-analysis as a writer and his capacity for growth remained undimmed. Oathbringer explores some wider literary themes of compassion and forgiveness and does so quite well, and Sanderson is definitely getting better by book at handling character. Unfortunately, his dialogue is extremely variable sometimes far too modern and grating. The romance storyline is also massively under-developed, although given how weak it is this may be for the best. Sanderson's sense of humour is variable, with some of the supposed witty banter between characters coming off feeling forced and unconvincing. Other elements, such as the single-minded bloodthirsty nature of the sentient sword Nightblood, are more entertaining.

Ultimately, The Stormlight Archive cannot withstand comparisons with the most accomplished works in the epic fantasy genre that nod towards realism: A Song of Ice and Fire has far superior prose and characters (though, obviously, a lamentably poorer release schedule); Wheel of Time has, for all its insane length, a much clearer plot through-line that goes through the series and doesn't overburden the reader with too many magic systems and unnecessary backstory plot coupons; and The Malazan Book of the Fallen (of which Stormlight all too-often feels like a less sophisticated YA remix) deals with a lot of the same ideas and themes in a far more original, literary and interesting manner.

What Oathbringer (***½) does do really well is action, worldbuilding and magic on one of the most interesting worlds developed in epic fantasy. From that viewpoint Stormlight reads like a crazy anime series in prose form, complete with impractically massive but awesome swords, bonkers magic and a somewhat juvenile take on romance. If you can overlook the problems with the unnecessarily-padded length of the book, there's a lot of fun to be had in this world, but it's not one of the deepest fantasy series around. The novel is available now in the UK and USA.