[Throne of War]

I'm a bit confused. Didn't it say in Reaper's that Shurq dropped Iron Bars and friends off in eastern Jacuruku? Than how the hell did they end up thousands of miles north in the Rust Ocean off of northern Genabackis on a raft? I''m only half way through this one and there are lots of other things that are just not clicking. This book is frustrating the hell out of me with it's loose plot lines and random explanations or even lack there of. Any answers or does the book just, *sigh*, suck.

[Aptorian]

The storylines and the plot threads are extremely messy. Esslemont and the editors did a poor job on that for sure.

Basically, some 5-10 years pass between Midnight Tides and Return of the Crimson Guard. So god knows what could have happened in the mean time. Probably they kicked ass straight across the continent and came out all fucked up.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 18 July 2010 - 01:21 PM

[haroos]

Aptorian, on 18 July 2010 - 01:21 PM, said:

The storylines and the plot threads are extremely messy. Esslemont and the editors did a poor job on that for sure.

Basically, some 5-10 years pass between Midnight Tides and Return of the Crimson Guard. So god knows what could have happened in the mean time. Probably they kicked ass straight across the continent and came out all fucked up.

didn't GoTM come chronologicaly after these events ?
and in rtcg several members of the guard complain about jacuruku.
so, i don't think there's a continuity issue here, just alot of missing parts, that are apparently not important.

which makes me wonder when greymane joined them, since he hates the necromancers, and they are from jacuruku.

[Aptorian]

During the course of the first part of RCG we are shown at least three seperate groups of CriGs travelling to meet the call to reunite. (At least three I think) There's no explanation on who they are most of the time, where they came from or where they are headed. The Iron Bars and co sections are especially bad because they are completely disconnected from the rest of the book. You could litterally cut out the pages with those CriGs and it would have no effect on the book. At first glance they are just throw away characters that only serve to distract the reader and detracts from the coherence of the over all story.

Now of course we know that Stonewielder will among others things revolve around the Stormwall, so we now see that all the Iron Bars and co sections were simply introducing the reader to the team one more time in case they forgot MT and setting them up for a bigger role in SW. But that is a very messy way of stringing things together.

There were similar loose strands like Cartheron Crusts pieces. The role of that Untan Princess. What the Seguleh were up to. Why there was an opening with Liossercal, Draconus and the earth guy when it seemingly had no role in the later events in current times.

[haroos]

Aptorian, on 18 July 2010 - 06:08 PM, said:

During the course of the first part of RCG we are shown at least three seperate groups of CriGs travelling to meet the call to reunite. (At least three I think) There's no explanation on who they are most of the time, where they came from or where they are headed. The Iron Bars and co sections are especially bad because they are completely disconnected from the rest of the book. You could litterally cut out the pages with those CriGs and it would have no effect on the book. At first glance they are just throw away characters that only serve to distract the reader and detracts from the coherence of the over all story.

Now of course we know that Stonewielder will among others things revolve around the Stormwall, so we now see that all the Iron Bars and co sections were simply introducing the reader to the team one more time in case they forgot MT and setting them up for a bigger role in SW. But that is a very messy way of stringing things together.

There were similar loose strands like Cartheron Crusts pieces. The role of that Untan Princess. What the Seguleh were up to. Why there was an opening with Liossercal, Draconus and the earth guy when it seemingly had no role in the later events in current times.

it sounds alot like erikson (in the main series) planting "seeds" for a lot of different story lines.
maybe esselmont is planing books in the future of cr.g. (and other characters from that book).

This post has been edited by haroos: 18 July 2010 - 06:15 PM

[Aptorian]

Oh that is surely his intention. He's just going about it in a much more clumsy way.

[D'rek]

Quote

I'm a bit confused. Didn't it say in Reaper's that Shurq dropped Iron Bars and friends off in eastern Jacuruku? Than how the hell did they end up thousands of miles north in the Rust Ocean off of northern Genabackis on a raft? I''m only half way through this one and there are lots of other things that are just not clicking. This book is frustrating the hell out of me with it's loose plot lines and random explanations or even lack there of. Any answers or does the book just, *sigh*, suck

RG also says that they were great fighters in her pirate crew for a bit. So they would've been pirating with Shurq for a while, then she drops them off on the east coast of Jacuruku, Iron Bars and co. then presumably fight their way northwards/westwards to the north-westish coast of Jacuruku, and take a ship there. That ship capsizes and they are afloat in the ocean north of Jacuruku and Korel when they get picked up in RotCG (and so they set sail southwest for Stratem). Considering RG and RotCG were being written around the same time, seems pretty continuous to me.

Aptorian, on 18 July 2010 - 06:08 PM, said:

During the course of the first part of RCG we are shown at least three seperate groups of CriGs travelling to meet the call to reunite. (At least three I think) There's no explanation on who they are most of the time, where they came from or where they are headed. The Iron Bars and co sections are especially bad because they are completely disconnected from the rest of the book. You could litterally cut out the pages with those CriGs and it would have no effect on the book. At first glance they are just throw away characters that only serve to distract the reader and detracts from the coherence of the over all story.

The only throwaway CrG group shown is the group that breaks out of the cave in Umryg, and that was really early in the book which I think works to show how crazy some of the Avowed can be, whereas the only other early CrG group shown is Shimmer's 2nd Company, and that only comes from the nubile view of Kyle which is usually hiding in rooms while the Avowed run off and be badass off-screen. Additionally, the Umryg group is used to show that the CrG 3rd Company is completely wiped-out barring those 12 Avowed - it mentions them later when the CrG is assembling in Stratem. Likewise Shimmer mentions how they lost contact with the 4th Company in Assail. I think that helps to make the CrG a bit fuller in details without having to have all 4 companies come to Stratem and Quon Tali, thereby keeping focus on the conflict between Skinner and Shimmer.

The only other CrG groups are Skinner's 1st Company when it shows up, the squad from the 2nd that went to the pit, and Iron Bars' squad. None of them can be considered throwaway.

[Abyss]

I agree with D'rek. Nothing was throwaway. Imnsho, IB's entire storyline was basically set-up to place him on the Stormwall for later books.

Pure speculation on my part but i think IB is being set up as the one who will take Skinner down. Back in MT Corlo, during the fight with the Serenghal notes "It had been said, by Guardsmen who would know, that [Iron Bars] was nearly a match for Skinner."

So all the crap that ICE puts him through in RCG, and whatever is likely to happen in the next book, is, i suspect, leading in that direction. As of the end of RCG we have Skinner and his 40 Avowed serving the CG, and Shimmer and Kazz' 50 of so Avowed plus the rest of the Guard moving out for points unknown. Skinner's group are still linked by the Vow, so i suspect conflict is inevitable.

All of which is to say, IB's storyline, altho scoring huge cool points for the Seguleh appearance, is deliberately isolated from the rest of the book that all tie together by the end. And it is a bit jarring in that respect, but i at least have no problem with it.

- Abyss, could say he was barred from participating in the main story...

[Throne of War]

Thanks everyone. I deduced much of the same from all of you, but I think Apt's got it. Esselmont's still a bit clumsy and that's ok. If his next outing improves over RCG the way it did over NoK then things are looking up. Of course I'm gonna finish RTG but at least now I know what my expectations should be.

[End of Disc One]

At least Iron Bars actually appeared in RotCG. I'm sure if he didn't there would have been a lot of complaints.