[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

GingerBreadMan, on 31 July 2010 - 07:39 PM, said:

Flawed, on 28 July 2010 - 12:57 PM, said:

Reads nicely.

I would say that the Goddess although " Killa " sounding is most probably burn.

The whole aspect of dragging it over ground. the heat. The wall being created etc suggests this.

Also for those that have read all the books remember a certain sword that Greymaine had and the suggestion by other characters who his patron lady was. Coupled with the fact that he served on the wall…….

As to all the other points they are just suggestive at this point I think and things we would find out if we read and find out.

Oh and blatantly the crippled god falling in the beginning.

The problem with the Burn theory is the physical description

Repulsive, pale, mottled, dead fish etc..

All reeks of a sea god of some sort

OR it reeks of a goddess who is under attack from a foreign power effecting her like a disease (the crippled god) only a couple thousand years before she is forced to go into hibernation to save herself.

And there's also the fact that she seems to be helping save an island and a peoples from the sea and its inhabitants, not the other way around.

[GingerBreadMan]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 01 August 2010 - 07:30 AM, said:

GingerBreadMan, on 31 July 2010 - 07:39 PM, said:

Flawed, on 28 July 2010 - 12:57 PM, said:

Reads nicely.

I would say that the Goddess although " Killa " sounding is most probably burn.

The whole aspect of dragging it over ground. the heat. The wall being created etc suggests this.

Also for those that have read all the books remember a certain sword that Greymaine had and the suggestion by other characters who his patron lady was. Coupled with the fact that he served on the wall…….

As to all the other points they are just suggestive at this point I think and things we would find out if we read and find out.

Oh and blatantly the crippled god falling in the beginning.

The problem with the Burn theory is the physical description

Repulsive, pale, mottled, dead fish etc..

All reeks of a sea god of some sort

OR it reeks of a goddess who is under attack from a foreign power effecting her like a disease (the crippled god) only a couple thousand years before she is forced to go into hibernation to save herself.

And there's also the fact that she seems to be helping save an island and a peoples from the sea and its inhabitants, not the other way around.

Fair point about her being sick, but the description of her being pale like a dead fish and blind just seems odd for an "earth" deity.

As to her helping, she isn't helping them from the sea but from the Stormriders and I think that is an important distinction

[Tarcil]

Remember the sacrifices the Korelri have to make to her/the wall. Something about drowned girls i think. That doesnt sound like Burn. Sounds Elder though, like Maels daughter.

[GingerBreadMan]

The old man noted cuts on her wrist which makes it sound like the tradition is opening cuts on the sacrifice and throwing them into the sea

[Mr Nom]

The goddess has to be Menandore aka Sister/Daughter Dawn



A figure stood there, tall beneath dark clouds in the red-gold of the coming dawn’s light.

Dawn was in full flush when they reached the crest [to see the goddess] (apt timing)

Yet its flesh was repulsive: a pale dead fish, mottled, pocked by rotting open sores. (Daughter of Osserc, who we know to be pale, and scaly)

Temal glanced out to sea, to the clear unmarred surface gleaming in the morning light, (another reference to the dawn/light)

Temel - Dark Taker! Could this be she? (another reference to the dawn/light)

Sarcophagos - Heat radiated from it as from a stone pulled from a fire (i.e. the properties of mini sun)

Markings on the dead girl = a broken circle (i.e. the sun at dawn, a circle broken by the horizon)

Doing a quick count, dawn is mentioned 7 times in that prologue alone.

If so what can we imply from her guardianship and her appearance i.e. the open sores

This post has been edited by Mr Nom: 06 August 2010 - 12:40 PM

[Sinisdar Toste]

Mr Nom, on 06 August 2010 - 11:49 AM, said:

The goddess has to be Menandore aka Sister/Daughter Dawn



A figure stood there, tall beneath dark clouds in the red-gold of the coming dawn’s light.

Dawn was in full flush when they reached the crest [to see the goddess] (apt timing)

Yet its flesh was repulsive: a pale dead fish, mottled, pocked by rotting open sores. (Daughter of Osserc, who we know to be pale, and scaly)

Temal glanced out to sea, to the clear unmarred surface gleaming in the morning light, (another reference to the dawn/light)

Temel - Dark Taker! Could this be she? (another reference to the dawn/light)

Sarcophagos - Heat radiated from it as from a stone pulled from a fire (i.e. the properties of mini sun)

Markings on the dead girl = a broken circle (i.e. the sun at dawn, a circle broken by the horizon)

Doing a quick count, dawn is mentioned 7 times in that prologue alone.

If so what can we imply from her guardianship and her appearance i.e. the open sores

excellent detective work mr nom... but you're missing one thing

why would menandore give a damn about the korel coastline or stormriders? whats her motive?

[Mr Nom]

Sinisdar Toste, on 06 August 2010 - 02:44 PM, said:

excellent detective work mr nom... but you're missing one thing

why would menandore give a damn about the korel coastline or stormriders? whats her motive?

Yep any motives I can think of are paper thin.

Some grudge against the crippled god , who doesn't, and by extension the storm riders?

This post has been edited by Mr Nom: 06 August 2010 - 02:57 PM

[Abyss]

Mr Nom, on 06 August 2010 - 11:49 AM, said:

The goddess has to be Menandore aka Sister/Daughter Dawn...

Your reasoning is excellent.

I note tho that she's described as 'huge' and Menandore when we've seen her is described as Human/Tiste high, ie tall but not massive. We've seen EGs shapeshift but no second gen draconic soletaken (ie: Menandore, Sukul, etc) do so beyond their veered forms. Still, she's descended from Osserc and Tiam, so it's possible and a totally workable theory.

Mr Nom, on 06 August 2010 - 02:52 PM, said:

Sinisdar Toste, on 06 August 2010 - 02:44 PM, said:

excellent detective work mr nom... but you're missing one thing

why would menandore give a damn about the korel coastline or stormriders? whats her motive?

Yep any motives I can think of are paper thin.

Some grudge against the crippled god , who doesn't, and by extension the storm riders?

ICE has a few hundred thousand years to play with. Motive isn't an issue because he can slide one in retroactively at virtually any point.

[Sotgnomen]

Well, the broken circle thing is not valid, as that was a sign of the cult of the fallen god.. an imperfect circle.
Still, not a bad theory, although I must agree that this seems really strange from a story-perspective.

As we're throwing in theories though, how about the Worm of Autumn?
She's female, and she doesn't really have to be an actual worm..
The theme is decay, so that fits the apparition, as well as the emanating warmth.
Also, decay fits with both the earth and the sea, but it's most obvious enemy is ice and cold..
And her recent absence explains why the wall is failing.

[The Seguleh 46th]

Mr Nom, on 06 August 2010 - 11:49 AM, said:

The goddess has to be Menandore aka Sister/Daughter Dawn



A figure stood there, tall beneath dark clouds in the red-gold of the coming dawn's light.

Dawn was in full flush when they reached the crest [to see the goddess] (apt timing)

Yet its flesh was repulsive: a pale dead fish, mottled, pocked by rotting open sores. (Daughter of Osserc, who we know to be pale, and scaly)

Temal glanced out to sea, to the clear unmarred surface gleaming in the morning light, (another reference to the dawn/light)

Temel - Dark Taker! Could this be she? (another reference to the dawn/light)

Sarcophagos - Heat radiated from it as from a stone pulled from a fire (i.e. the properties of mini sun)

Markings on the dead girl = a broken circle (i.e. the sun at dawn, a circle broken by the horizon)

Doing a quick count, dawn is mentioned 7 times in that prologue alone.

If so what can we imply from her guardianship and her appearance i.e. the open sores

I thought Menandore was Draconus's daughter? Or is she mother to Sheltaha and Sukul via a tumble with Draconus? Not important in regards to this thread, just curious and wanting a refresher.....

[Sinisdar Toste]

menandore, sheltatha and sukul are all sisters. their mother is tiam, with osserc being sukul and menandores father, and scabandari father to sheltatha

edit: sheltatha rolled with draconus and gave birth to lady envy and sister spite

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 23 August 2010 - 04:43 AM

[The Seguleh 46th]

Sinisdar Toste, on 23 August 2010 - 04:42 AM, said:

menandore, sheltatha and sukul are all sisters. their mother is tiam, with osserc being sukul and menandores father, and scabandari father to sheltatha

edit: sheltatha rolled with draconus and gave birth to lady envy and sister spite

Coo! Figured most of it out about a half hour after i posted! Other than the Sheltaha was the Draconus lover part, always thought that was Menandore for some reason. Crazy dragon chicks! Sheltaha was the one they were going to kill before Osserc intervened? Shadow, Light, and Dark having an orgy! Weird, but probably fun.........!?

[Baudinsballs]

Maels daughter?

[HoosierDaddy]

Beru and Neruse are Mael's daughters, I believe.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

H.D., on 25 August 2010 - 08:33 PM, said:

Beru and Neruse are Mael's daughters, I believe.

Except for when Beru is his son...

[HoosierDaddy]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 25 August 2010 - 10:18 PM, said:

H.D., on 25 August 2010 - 08:33 PM, said:

Beru and Neruse are Mael's daughters, I believe.

Except for when Beru is his son...

Well, there's that. Transgendered gods are still gods, ya know?

[Nemorensis]

The impression I have is that is indeed our dear Mother of Forkruls. The statuesque form hints strongly at it. There are parallels to her meeting with Rake and Gothos in yet another prologue. Her appearance of a drowned corpse could be the result of her having escaped her rather watery prison in the Azath connected to Mael's realm/Ruse. (The description reminded me of featherwitch in the flooded Eternal Domicile and of Brys' and the Edur's journey.) The reticence of the Stormriders to approach at all seems to hint at Elder power that I wouldn't exactly place in the hands or body of a spawn of Mael.
There is also the question of whether that flesh in that sarcophagus is indeed her flesh. Maybe it is the heat of the putrifying flesh of the Fallen One?

[beru]

H.D., on 25 August 2010 - 10:26 PM, said:

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 25 August 2010 - 10:18 PM, said:

H.D., on 25 August 2010 - 08:33 PM, said:

Beru and Neruse are Mael's daughters, I believe.

Except for when Beru is his son...

Well, there's that. Transgendered gods are still gods, ya know?

indeed

[saint trull]

I thought that the Malazans had a foothold or something on Koreli. Or is it just that they have their own wall on their side of the waters? I mean that captains of Fid and them was said to be on the wall but later said something like that they were disbanded. Just curious

[Sinisdar Toste]

the malazans, as of RotCG are backed into a single city on the theftian peninsula