[Shadow of Shadowthrone]

Hey all, I guess I'm not the only one not from an English-speaking country (I'm half Dutch half Norwegian all crazy), and so some of Erikson/Eslemont's character names can be a bit jarring when reading them.
For instance, there is a character in Midnight Tides named 'Pule', which in Norwegian is the infinitive of the "bad" word version of 'sexual intercourse';
and Ublabla Pung's last name is basically "scrotum" in Norwegian.

Any other names that in other languages are given new meaning?

[D'rek]

Well Fiddler, Picker, Quick Ben, Gullstream and Limp are all massive double entendres, even in english...

[Findarato]

Well, the name Shurq reminds me of 'Schurke', which means scoundrel in German (which is my first language, followed by English and Finnish). 'Trull' is also a special card combination in a cardgame called 'Tarock' which I used to play some years ago. 'Kruppe' is the German word for croup (body part of a horse). since I like to play with words myself, I find this quite interesting.
I am sure there are other examples which don't come to my mind now. Maybe SE even intended some of these.

I never read the German translations, but I know many names like Fiddler and Whiskeyjack are translated there.

[Garak]

Quote

For instance, there is a character in Midnight Tides named 'Pule', which in Norwegian is the infinitive of the "bad" word version of 'sexual intercourse';

Pule = in romanian that's the plural for dick (pula being the singular version. there is also a city called Pula in Croatia and Botswana's national coin is the pula. needless to say we here find that really funny.)

[Salt-Man Z]

 D, on 23 June 2010 - 11:53 AM, said:

Well Fiddler, Picker, Quick Ben, Gullstream and Limp are all massive double entendres, even in english...

Is this a British thing? Because the only one of these that I "get" is Limp.

[MTS]

 Salt-Man Z, on 23 June 2010 - 03:44 PM, said:

 D, on 23 June 2010 - 11:53 AM, said:

Well Fiddler, Picker, Quick Ben, Gullstream and Limp are all massive double entendres, even in english...

Is this a British thing? Because the only one of these that I "get" is Limp.

Not at all.
'Quick' Ben is obvious. We say he's premature, he just calls it ecstacy.
Fiddler - to play a fiddle you need to be good with your fingers...
Picker and Gullstream I'm not too sure on, although with Gullstream I can certainly guess lol.

[Salt-Man Z]

Okay, I guess I can sort of see some innuendo in all of 'em. It feels like I'm reaching, though.

I suppose Gullstream could be bird piss or something? (Though it's so close to "gulfstream" that I have a hard time shaking that association.)

[NikitaDarkstar]

Ublala Pung came to mind for me as well. (Pretty much means the same thing in swedish as in norwegian.)

Apsalar always looked funny to me 'Ap' you tend to add to say it reminds you of a monkey. (apkul for example would litterary mean monkey-fun or funny as a monkey.) and salar is the plural version of sal, which is a large room (think ballroom or throne room size). So her name pretty much means Monkey-rooms. Yes it made me go "WTF?!" the first time I saw it.

Bult, is either a nut (the threaded one you put a lug on, not the kind you eat.) or "Bulta" means to pound something.

Coop, doesn't actually mean something, but it's the name of a large company that runs grocery stores. (Well not just groceries, it's kind of the swedish verion of Wall-mart.)

Iskaral Pust. Pust is a small gust of wind.

[Harvester]

 Findarato, on 23 June 2010 - 03:24 PM, said:

I never read the German translations, but I know many names like Fiddler and Whiskeyjack are translated there.

I have given them a quick glance through, they're abysmal, hands down.

Fear Sengar = Forcht Sengar
Hedge= Igel ~ Hedgehog
Whiskeyjack = Elster ~ Magpie (Iskar Jarak makes no sense in the German translation, not at all)
Errant = Der Abtrünnige ~ the Renegade
The Shake = Die Triller ~ the Trill
Mortal Sword = Todbringendes Schwert ~ Deathbringing Sword (wtf?)
Warren = Gewirr ~ tangle

... and so on, it's really painful to look at.

This post has been edited by Harvester: 23 June 2010 - 06:28 PM

[Findarato]

 Harvester, on 23 June 2010 - 06:24 PM, said:

 Findarato, on 23 June 2010 - 03:24 PM, said:

I never read the German translations, but I know many names like Fiddler and Whiskeyjack are translated there.

I have given them a quick glance through, they're abysmal, hands down.

Fear Sengar = Forcht Sengar
Hedge= Igel ~ Hedgehog
Whiskeyjack = Elster ~ Magpie (Iskar Jarak makes no sense in the German translation, not at all)
Errant = Der Abtrünnige ~ the Renegade
The Shake = Die Triller ~ the Trill
Mortal Sword = Todbringendes Schwert ~ Deathbringing Sword (wtf?)
Warren = Gewirr ~ tangle

... and so on, it's really painful to look at.

totally agree. I didn't want to say it so directly in my first posting. The translated names really feel like disturbing the story line to me, although I have just been leafing through the German books in the bookstores. Hedge for sure is no hedgehog. and 'knochenwerfer' for bonecasters. Would sound better calling them just shamans, although it is a direct translation.

Just came to my mind: Kilmandaros always sounds like Kilimanjaro to me.

[Shadow of Shadowthrone]

Yes "Coop" and "Pust" --> same in Norwegian as Swedish.

I do enjoy the given names of the Bridgeburners. It's pretty cool though I never caught the innuendo until, well now ^^
It has influenced my ongoing roleplaying campaign somewhat cause we had this host and when the Player Characters asked for names I began giving them "earned" names like in this series

This post has been edited by Slynt in the Shadows: 23 June 2010 - 08:04 PM

[D'rek]

For the german - there's two different sets of german translations of the novels. The first one I heard was rather awful, the second better (I have no idea by how much). Not sure if the names are any different though, as suppoesdly the translator is the same, too...

[Harvester]

 Findarato, on 23 June 2010 - 07:07 PM, said:

totally agree. I didn't want to say it so directly in my first posting. The translated names really feel like disturbing the story line to me, although I have just been leafing through the German books in the bookstores. Hedge for sure is no hedgehog. and 'knochenwerfer' for bonecasters. Would sound better calling them just shamans, although it is a direct translation.

Just came to my mind: Kilmandaros always sounds like Kilimanjaro to me.

Oh noes, we can actually see where they were going with this, but the problem is that as a reader of the German books you won't get it at all. There's a difference between casting bones and throwing bones.


@D'rek


Well, I think it's the latest book I have looked into and it's still awful.

This post has been edited by Harvester: 23 June 2010 - 08:23 PM

[Findarato]

Don't know how many German translations there are, but in general, also with other fantasy authors they just hurry with the translations so quality suffers. Personally I don't like the translation of names (I read that Stormy is 'Stuermisch' which is of course the meaning of the word but it does not sound good, and when I imagine the character it just hurts.)
I may be wrong, but maybe it's one reason GRMM's and Erikson's books are not read much here, unless in the original versions. Also the cover arts of these translated books are dreadful.

BTW Alrada Ahn: Ahn means ancestor in German.

[Puck]

I agree on the awfulness of the German covers. BUT I dare you guys to come up with better translations for the names. It's true, some may seem awkward if you already read the books in English, but they're actually quite fitting when you don't know the English names. Since the names have meanings and as much as it seems otherwise, not all people know English well enough to get a name's meaning if it stays English rather than being translated. Additionally, it DOES sound awful when you have a German text and randomly English words start popping up.
And yes, the translations make sense. Maybe not all of them, but they do. I'd like to see some of those who complain without end about the German translation to sit down and translate it 'correctly'. Trust me, the Russian translation of GotM is waaaaaay worse. I mean, really really bad.
Also, sometimes I translate short stories from Russian to German for uni purposes and I see enough problems there. I can imagine how difficult it sometimes may be to find corresponding words in different languages, because while the word may seem to mean the same at first, the actual nuances can take the meaning in unwanted or unfitting directions.

To clear up some things, the difference in the two German versions are merely a couple of names and titles. Yes, people who didn't just b*tch around but actually wanted to change something had a talk with the translator [who perfectly knew and still knows that there are instances in the translation that may not seems fitting at first - these things happen when you translate a series like the MBotF without knowing where the story is headed or which of the several meanings a name or title may have is the best one to choose] and as a result the second version came about. I personally don't like the changes; I preferred calling Laseen 'Imperatrix' rather than 'Kaiserin', but there we go - you can NEVER please everyone.
Oh, and Whiskeyjack IS a magpie, a Canadian species of magpies to be precise. So yeah, the name does fit. Same goes with Fear/Forcht. Fear is, iirc, an ooold word for 'man'. Guess what Forcht means. To go even further, 'to cast' means 'auswerfen' among other things. The other major translation would be 'gießen'. 'Knochengießer' is seriously silly, unless they're spilling water, so the logical thing would be to go with 'Knochenwerfer'. Just saying.

On a side note, the German translator is a fan of Erikson's works. So yeah, my guess is he does do his best with the translation. As far as I know he even has the opportunity to ask SE if he's not sure which meaning would be the most fitting or how to change things if needed - for example there was the instance where Iskar Jarak needed to be changed to go better with the German Elster. Which happened with SE's approval, duh!

Sorry for the long rant. You're entitled to like or dislike the matter, of course. I just wanted to state some facts, since I have a bit of insight on the debate due to being moderator on the German SE fan-board, being in contact with the translator and following the debate for years now


That said, I can't really connect to the tragedy at Capustan because in Russian capusta/kapusta means cabbage.

This post has been edited by Puck: 09 July 2010 - 10:45 PM

[Illuyankas]

 Puck, on 09 July 2010 - 10:32 PM, said:

That said, I can't really connect to the tragedy at Capustan because in Russian capusta/kapusta means cabbage.

DAMN IT YOU'VE TOTALLY RUINED THE SCENE FOR ME

[worry]

cabbage smells like thousands of rotting corpses anyway, so no harm done.

[Findarato]

 Puck, on 09 July 2010 - 10:32 PM, said:

I agree on the awfulness of the German covers. BUT I dare you guys to come up with better translations for the names. It's true, some may seem awkward if you already read the books in English, but they're actually quite fitting when you don't know the English names. Since the names have meanings and as much as it seems otherwise, not all people know English well enough to get a name's meaning if it stays English rather than being translated. Additionally, it DOES sound awful when you have a German text and randomly English words start popping up.
And yes, the translations make sense. Maybe not all of them, but they do. I'd like to see some of those who complain without end about the German translation to sit down and translate it 'correctly'. Trust me, the Russian translation of GotM is waaaaaay worse. I mean, really really bad.
Also, sometimes I translate short stories from Russian to German for uni purposes and I see enough problems there. I can imagine how difficult it sometimes may be to find corresponding words in different languages, because while the word may seem to mean the same at first, the actual nuances can take the meaning in unwanted or unfitting directions.

To clear up some things, the difference in the two German versions are merely a couple of names and titles. Yes, people who didn't just b*tch around but actually wanted to change something had a talk with the translator [who perfectly knew and still knows that there are instances in the translation that may not seems fitting at first - these things happen when you translate a series like the MBotF without knowing where the story is headed or which of the several meanings a name or title may have is the best one to choose] and as a result the second version came about. I personally don't like the changes; I preferred calling Laseen 'Imperatrix' rather than 'Kaiserin', but there we go - you can NEVER please everyone.
Oh, and Whiskeyjack IS a magpie, a Canadian species of magpies to be precise. So yeah, the name does fit. Same goes with Fear/Forcht. Fear is, iirc, an ooold word for 'man'. Guess what Forcht means. To go even further, 'to cast' means 'auswerfen' among other things. The other major translation would be 'gießen'. 'Knochengießer' is seriously silly, unless they're spilling water, so the logical thing would be to go with 'Knochenwerfer'. Just saying.

On a side note, the German translator is a fan of Erikson's works. So yeah, my guess is he does do his best with the translation. As far as I know he even has the opportunity to ask SE if he's not sure which meaning would be the most fitting or how to change things if needed - for example there was the instance where Iskar Jarak needed to be changed to go better with the German Elster. Which happened with SE's approval, duh!

Sorry for the long rant. You're entitled to like or dislike the matter, of course. I just wanted to state some facts, since I have a bit of insight on the debate due to being moderator on the German SE fan-board, being in contact with the translator and following the debate for years now


That said, I can't really connect to the tragedy at Capustan because in Russian capusta/kapusta means cabbage.

Germany is my first language as well since I live in Austria, but I read all Erikson's (or other english-speaking writers) books in the original versions. I did not say all translated names are bad, for instance Whiskeyjack as being called 'elster' is ok, since the zoologically correct translation would be too complicated (meisenhaeher, perisoreus canadensis). Yes that species belongs to the family of raven-like birds although it is quite small. )
I was rather thinking about others (what is Bottle called btw? 'Flasche'? (i don't know since I haven't read the german books) that would be such an example I was referring to. because that would sound like an insult in the german language to me. would disturb me because I like the character in the books.

another translated name enters my mind, making me shake my head: 'Hot Pie" in 'The song of Ice and fire' is made into 'heisse pastete' that is what I meant, that they should find other ways than just direct translations in some cases. It's just because some german words don't sound as cool as in english.
Personally I would have no problem reading a book in german with the names in the original language.

Bonecaster' tells me more about the person's role than 'knochenwerfer', but I cannot find a matching german word in my mind. to throw means something different than 'to cast'. maybe 'knochenwuerfler', but that sounds funny too.

BTW a question: the word 'fear' for 'man'. or 'forcht'. where did you find that meaning? just interests me, because I know some basic things about old english or medieval german.
I always wondered at that name in english too, because that particular character would mind very much if his name meant something about being afraid of something. I always thought then it meant something else in the Edur language, like Tomad for instance. Such names were left without translation.

BTW has anyone else got the association of joghurt with the word "Jaghut"?

now it was me doing the 'long ranting'.

This post has been edited by Findarato: 10 July 2010 - 08:54 AM

[Harvester]

I know what a whiskeyjack is , I just wanted to point out a problem... which ain't a problem at all.

The point is, though, that explicit telling names do not work that well (or not at all) in the German language. Okay, there's Müller, Meyer, Schneider, Koch etc., but those are surnames

[Findarato]

yes, I agree it is a certain problem with the German language itself.

even the surnames you mention, mean something. they are professions. most surnames (or also given names) mean something if one searches for meanings. where I live there are surnames like 'grosschädel' for instance, and for not-german speakers in this forum, that means bighead.

This post has been edited by Findarato: 10 July 2010 - 09:58 AM