[Grief]

Thoughts:

alt146: Still very under the radar. His contributions are safe, but he does question other players. Puts a bit of pressure on. Has a little content, but hasn't gotten really involved, hasn't really pushed much of a case, or anything like that.

dktorode: Comparitively agressive yesterday. Haven't heard from him today yet.

Edrigan: Comes across as over-defensive at times.

Grief: Best thing since sliced bread. Probably better than it at mafia.

HMQB: Seems very agreeable. His analysis of Silencer goes into a lot of detail. The analysis seems to lack something though. Hard to pin down. Perhaps just explains what silencer is doing too much, as opposed to why he finds this scummy?

Mentalist: Who?
Seriously though, let's have a look at his posts:

Mentalist, on 13 July 2010 - 01:10 PM, said:

morning all
I thought i'd be awake earlier than this, damn it alll....

Mentalist, on 13 July 2010 - 04:08 AM, said:

Grief, on 12 July 2010 - 09:42 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 12 July 2010 - 08:40 PM, said:

My reasoning is thus. He is Mental thus scum who should be lynched.

Vote Mentalist

If we lynch him before he can speak, he doesn't get to go "I told you so" in spoilers either.

This is definetely worth considering.

oh please, you'd better not!
I'm thinking someone among those who has made evil suggestions based on my ever-absent nature should be totally ashamed of themselves. Also, one of Dude and Vengy must be evil. Vengy because he suggests i'm meta-scum, and the Dude, because we all know he's evil incarnate and the only reason he's not voting me off is because he has long since submitted his kill order on me to the mods

seriously though, I am unsure which one of the two is more scummier atm.

Mentalist, on 13 July 2010 - 04:11 AM, said:

oh great, now that can post, no one's around.

Post number 1: No content.
Post number 2: Some joking. Apparently serious suggestion about Venge and Dude. I read this as him thinking both were being quite scummy, rather than just being undecided about which was scummier of the two(which could mean he thought neither were scummy). Not sure if he is serious. If he is, he never follows it up or elaborates on why.
Post number 3: This is the only one that strikes me as potentially scummy. No one being around does not mean that you cannot give your opinion on the discussions, or your thoughts ont the players.

Really lacking in contribution.

Silencer: Seems very cautious to me. I don't like the fact that he waited for approval on the venge train, nor that he is trying to make himself look innocent by justifying his behaviour with meta, nor his avoidance of certain discussions.

I am going to:

Vote Silencer

He is, in my mind, the most likely scum, and I don't know how much longer I'll be around.

[Mentalist]

hey-hey, I'm home early for once!

first off, two kills, wtf? i'm fairly certain we got told there are 2 paired killers and no symps, as such a double kill seems like ovekill, for what's supposed to be a M&P game, as such I'm gonna write one of those kills off to a vig. I've got some inklings as to who it might've been and whatnot, but these are purely gut and also kinda sorta meta, so i'll reserve them for spoilers.

that being said, since we are talking meta, esp Silencer talking meta, well all i've gotta say is that in my experience inno teams are generally better served with him dead quicker, as is generally the case with all lowposters. nothing really worse for innos in a M&P game than to get to D-Day with only lowposters. And yeah, I fuly realize the irony in this, since i'm by far the lowest poster on here.

that being said, i'm gonna try to re-read what the two NKs have said, and whose feathers that might've ruffled.

[hmqb]

Mentalist, on 14 July 2010 - 02:04 AM, said:

hey-hey, I'm home early for once!

first off, two kills, wtf? i'm fairly certain we got told there are 2 paired killers and no symps, as such a double kill seems like ovekill, for what's supposed to be a M&P game, as such I'm gonna write one of those kills off to a vig. I've got some inklings as to who it might've been and whatnot, but these are purely gut and also kinda sorta meta, so i'll reserve them for spoilers.

that being said, since we are talking meta, esp Silencer talking meta, well all i've gotta say is that in my experience inno teams are generally better served with him dead quicker, as is generally the case with all lowposters. nothing really worse for innos in a M&P game than to get to D-Day with only lowposters. And yeah, I fuly realize the irony in this, since i'm by far the lowest poster on here.

that being said, i'm gonna try to re-read what the two NKs have said, and whose feathers that might've ruffled.

I find aiming to vote off low posters rather then scum strange, do you have any opinion on whose scum whose not?

[D'rek]

It is day 1. 12 hours and 55 minutes remaining

7 players still alive.
4 votes to lynch, 4 to go to night

2 votes Silencer (HMQB, Grief)
1 vote HMQB (Edrigan)

[Mentalist]

High Mage Quick Ben, on 14 July 2010 - 02:37 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 14 July 2010 - 02:04 AM, said:

hey-hey, I'm home early for once!

first off, two kills, wtf? i'm fairly certain we got told there are 2 paired killers and no symps, as such a double kill seems like ovekill, for what's supposed to be a M&P game, as such I'm gonna write one of those kills off to a vig. I've got some inklings as to who it might've been and whatnot, but these are purely gut and also kinda sorta meta, so i'll reserve them for spoilers.

that being said, since we are talking meta, esp Silencer talking meta, well all i've gotta say is that in my experience inno teams are generally better served with him dead quicker, as is generally the case with all lowposters. nothing really worse for innos in a M&P game than to get to D-Day with only lowposters. And yeah, I fuly realize the irony in this, since i'm by far the lowest poster on here.

that being said, i'm gonna try to re-read what the two NKs have said, and whose feathers that might've ruffled.

I find aiming to vote off low posters rather then scum strange, do you have any opinion on whose scum whose not?

Silencer's meta-defending sure makes him sound scummy as hell.

[Silencer]

Mentalist, on 14 July 2010 - 02:04 AM, said:

hey-hey, I'm home early for once!

first off, two kills, wtf? i'm fairly certain we got told there are 2 paired killers and no symps, as such a double kill seems like ovekill, for what's supposed to be a M&P game, as such I'm gonna write one of those kills off to a vig. I've got some inklings as to who it might've been and whatnot, but these are purely gut and also kinda sorta meta, so i'll reserve them for spoilers.

that being said, since we are talking meta, esp Silencer talking meta, well all i've gotta say is that in my experience inno teams are generally better served with him dead quicker, as is generally the case with all lowposters. nothing really worse for innos in a M&P game than to get to D-Day with only lowposters. And yeah, I fuly realize the irony in this, since i'm by far the lowest poster on here.

that being said, i'm gonna try to re-read what the two NKs have said, and whose feathers that might've ruffled.

Irony, for sure. However, I'm not actually that much of a lowposter atm. Low, but well within range of alt and down - especially seeing as I haven't hit my active time yet. As for talking meta, sure, (and this is to all of you) but you know me: I play the same every game, you should be used to that now. Call it meta and worthless if you want, but it doesn't change the facts.

Grief, on 14 July 2010 - 01:26 AM, said:

Silencer: Seems very cautious to me. I don't like the fact that he waited for approval on the venge train, nor that he is trying to make himself look innocent by justifying his behaviour with meta, nor his avoidance of certain discussions.

I am going to:

Vote Silencer

He is, in my mind, the most likely scum, and I don't know how much longer I'll be around.

See, this is my point. Waited for approval? Justifying behaviour with meta? No, I just didn't want to vote early in the day, didn't think it was a strong case, and knew damn well this is the kind of shit you bastards would pull out of that. I justified my posting style with meta, not my behaviour with response to the lynch so much. Besides, if someone says "Kill me, it would better serve the team", you know what you lot say? "He's obviously pulling that emo crap to avoid a lynch". If someone says "I don't really want to die in this game", then they're self-serving. You can't win, and as I said before, I just made the best of a bad situation. I notice none of you have actually responded to any of my reasons - just summed them up, like HMQB's pointless attempt at a quotes-case. "He did this, then this" rather than "Well, I think your point here is wrong because...". That's what's wrong with his posts.
And as for avoiding certain discussions, you're summarising HMQB's summary. I didn't avoid, I dismissed, because when I was talking with dkt about the lynch mechanics, there was no way in hell we were getting a second lynch in, so the point was moot. How is that avoiding? Personally my stance on it is that multiple lynches will play out as they do over the course of the day. We can talk all we want about the ideal scenario, I just doubt we'll ever achieve it - and certainly won't reach a consensus on what is and isn't, as shown by the pages of wasted discussion you had yesterday. Que sera sera, basically.



At this stage I think Edrigan's vote on HMQB has the least basis to it in posts. That being said, HMQB hasn't been the most useful player in my eyes, but that may be coloured by his bullshit attempt at a case against me.

[alt146]

@Edrigan - I thought vig as soon as I saw two bolded lines in the scene. After reading through it, there was nothing that confirmed or denied the thought,but as there are no clues in the scenes that is hardly surprising. Statement like the one you made are often how scum slip up and I called you on it. I don't see how I was being vague,it was a very specific question. You played it cool and a couple of other people seemed to have had the same first assumption, so nothing too suspicious. That said, I don't like how you are trying to preemptively discredit I case I haven't even built. Especially since it involves painting me as someone who is trying to trap you and subtly makes me look scummy. You have been pretty open about the fact that you think I am suspicious, I think you have made your mind up about me and now it is colouring you paranoid.

Both sides of the silencer case seem a little meh. HMQB really just goes and states a bunch of things that silencer has done. In defense silencer is vague and slightly meta. And most of the case seems to be based more around playstyle and touchy-feely stuff than anything concrete. I'd rather see something concrete before I put a vote down there. Although something does seem a bit off from both parties.

As for my own suspects, there isn't anything strong enough for me to throw a vote down at this point. Grief is being active and making lots of summaries, he seems to be on no-one's radar at the moment. Slick play if he is scum, not where I would look for today's lynch. DK has been his normal rowdy self,but that is really indicative of anything except that he is DK. Not really putting much out other than his thoughts on mafia-craft. I will be interested to see what he says today, now that there are slightly weightier things to discuss. Ment has been a low poster, once again not indicative of anything in and of itself, but he has used it to great effect in the past. I'm probably the most wary of him at this point, simply for the unknown factor.

[Mentalist]

ok, done, reading. took a while cuz I had to get stuff ready for a loan appointment tomorrow.

anyhow, I couldn't really see the Dude pissing off anyone--he didn't talk enough. PB, otoh, had gotten into tiffs with Silencer, Ed, and even Grief to a degree....

at this point, due to him being a reserved and crafty bastard, I'd be inclined to vote SAIlencer, but i'll wait till morning for that.

g'night.

[Silencer]

alt146, on 14 July 2010 - 04:49 AM, said:

DK has been his normal rowdy self,but that is really indicative of anything except that he is DK.

Can I just say

for the record

FUCKING META ISN'T WORTH ANYTHING OR DOES THAT JUST APPLY TO ME? *rawr*

@Ment *bows* Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment. XD

[dktorode]

2 night kills?

should be a vig, at least i hope its a vig.
small game like this its very seldom that killers get two kills.
But i suppose we have to opperate under WCS.

Ok...so there are a few little cases being thrown around.
Im not really sure what to make of them, ive still got to go over them properly again.
But im kinda getting scum vibes from nearly everyone and thats not a good sign for me.

ontop of everything ive got a big work load today AND mr Office motor mouth wont shut the fuck up for five seconds about fucking football to let me fucking read the fukcing thread properly. Fukcing world cup is over and he wants to discuss fucking champions league...FUCK OFFF!!!!
Im typing this while he rambles on and i nod and go "uh huh"....god help me

ahem....yes....my coffee is on its way

[dktorode]

Reading the thread again and not distracted this time, there is just something about ment that jumped out to me.

Actually its ment and HMQB that stick out but ill get to that.

Ment comes on and first thing he does is show his surprise at two kills, but more importantly he believes that one kill was a vig...well so do i but thats neither here nor there.
The thing is...he then immediately decides he wants to try and see if the guys that got killed "ruffled the feathers" of anyone....thats a bit...strange considering he thinks that one kill is a vig right?

Mentalist, on 14 July 2010 - 02:04 AM, said:

hey-hey, I'm home early for once!

first off, two kills, wtf? i'm fairly certain we got told there are 2 paired killers and no symps, as such a double kill seems like ovekill, for what's supposed to be a M&P game, as such I'm gonna write one of those kills off to a vig. I've got some inklings as to who it might've been and whatnot, but these are purely gut and also kinda sorta meta, so i'll reserve them for spoilers.

that being said, since we are talking meta, esp Silencer talking meta, well all i've gotta say is that in my experience inno teams are generally better served with him dead quicker, as is generally the case with all lowposters. nothing really worse for innos in a M&P game than to get to D-Day with only lowposters. And yeah, I fuly realize the irony in this, since i'm by far the lowest poster on here.

that being said, i'm gonna try to re-read what the two NKs have said, and whose feathers that might've ruffled.

So essentially he was also trying to see if he could find the vig? ofcourse he was trying to 'portray' that he was trying to find the killer but by coming up with anything damning against anyone he could very well be revealing the very vig HE himself thought was one of the NK's.
I think he slipped here, I think he has been rather hasty and clearly pressed for time and i think he KNEW there was a vig and he wants to find him. Disguising it as him trying to find the killer.

I mean, generally... looking at who got "ruffled feathers" by the people that got killed just opens a big can of WIFOM and generally doesnt ever bear any fruit. Guys like ment dont normally bother with NK's as they are usually dead ends. But it actually might find a Vig...as a vig does not need to be so cryptic with his Kill.
He just takes out the guy he fancies.
There is a decent chance that Ment simply went looking for the potentially dangerous vig and used looking for the killer clues as cover. Killing two birds with one stone essentially.
Looking helpful and trying to find the killes, while really trying to find roled players to set up for the lynch.

Now...what REALLY stood out to me was Edrigan made a case on HMQB....a rather half decent case if you ask me. At least worth a look.
Does Ment even bat an eye?....nope.
He doesnt even acknowledge the case exists....instead he goes straight for the very person HMQB was "looking at".

I think there is a huge possibilty that Ment and HMQB are the killers.

Now i just not sure on who to place a vote on....while i find ment to be the most obvious HMQB has a vote already...

[dktorode]

Silencer, on 14 July 2010 - 05:52 AM, said:

alt146, on 14 July 2010 - 04:49 AM, said:

DK has been his normal rowdy self,but that is really indicative of anything except that he is DK.

Can I just say

for the record

FUCKING META ISN'T WORTH ANYTHING OR DOES THAT JUST APPLY TO ME? *rawr*

@Ment *bows* Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment. XD

WELL I NEVER USED META AS A DEFENSE!!

HURR DURR

[Silencer]

Neither did I! Strawmanning, imo. I'm just pointing out that saying I was doing stuff quietly and slowly is like saying you are doing things loud and aggressive. It's nothing. It's normal. I don't see why your-normal gets a free pass but my-normal is considered scummy. If it was someone else being my-normal or your-normal then yeah, fine, but unless you being aggressive is scummy, me being cautious isn't scummy. Logical, yes? No?

Anyway, at this point, your case against Ment is the best yet, imo. Not only is he jumping at WIFOM, and following HMQB around like a puppy, but he's subsisting on 6 posts. The fact that people earlier said that low-poster chasing is possibly a bad idea due to the low number of players, he can sit safely at the very bottom of the pile and blame it on META that he is busy as normal in RL. Free ride. I don't like that. HMQB is pretty low on the posts too, though only just behind me atm, and while I don't think a killer pair would be following similar strategies, who knows?

I'm going to vote Ment, because it seems to me like voting HMQB at this point would be too easy, and if Ment turns up scum we have somewhere to look (at the person he's following) but if we do HMQB then it doesn't follow that Ment is the next place to look.

So,

Vote Mentalist

It's also really him/HMQB or me at this point, so I have to get a vote out there.

[dktorode]

Well you WOULD like the case since you got two votes wouldn't you?

You didnt vote HMQB, which is what i thought you would do, since he already got a vote...hmmm interesting.

Im still not sure now the votes are all relatively split....will have to wait till some more people come on.
We can try coordinate and see if we can get two lynches today. Think two lynches is what we should aim for.
Although...one lynch wont be a tragedy i suppose.

[Silencer]

Two lynches can't hurt. Well, they could, but you know what I mean.

And yes, as I said, I have to like your case. >.<
And I still think voting HMQB at this point, by me, while self-serving doesn't give us anything to follow up on, or look at.

[dktorode]

Well...i have work to do.

Ill hold off my vote on HMQB or Ment for now.
Would like to hear what others have to say, whether a lynch on the one or the other would be best.

maybe even all three of you....but that scenario means we are gambling everything.

[Tapper]

It is day 2. 5 hours and 3 minutes remaining, if my math is correct.

7 players still alive.
4 votes to lynch, 4 to go to night

2 votes Silencer (HMQB, Grief)
1 vote HMQB (Edrigan)
1 vote Mentalist (Silencer)

This post has been edited by Tapper: 14 July 2010 - 10:30 AM

[alt146]

Silencer, on 14 July 2010 - 09:55 AM, said:

Neither did I! Strawmanning, imo. I'm just pointing out that saying I was doing stuff quietly and slowly is like saying you are doing things loud and aggressive. It's nothing. It's normal. I don't see why your-normal gets a free pass but my-normal is considered scummy. If it was someone else being my-normal or your-normal then yeah, fine, but unless you being aggressive is scummy, me being cautious isn't scummy. Logical, yes? No?

I think it is more because of you bringing meta into your own defense. I've always been of the opinion that people play the way they play, with a slight variance for roles; as opposed to certain roles always playing a certain way. I suppose there isnt much more you can say when you are accused of playing the way you always do, except that you are playing the way you always do. I can understand why people are a little bit wary of meta being dragged into anything though, especially since this is an altless game.

[dktorode]

For me...every game is an altless game.

[Silencer]

@Alt, exactly my point. If someone complains that I'm playing a certain way, and that's the way I normally play, how the fuck am I supposed to respond other than to point that out?

@Dkt - lol, well, that's hardly our fault, is it?