[Silanah]

Meanas, on 25 May 2010 - 05:50 PM, said:

The possibility that it could be a chinese spy that removed Rashan vote Shadow train is possible but it did more harm as it looked like someone was trying to save shadow but wasn't willing to publicly defend him, that a scum operating procedure you don't want to defend a team mate to heavily in that it would give you away especially when the guys isn't there to defend himself.

If it was a spy abilities then I think it was misused as it didn't help shadow at all.

That's assuming it was designed to help Shadow, but that's just too much WIFOM for me to stomach.

I'll deliberate on it for a little bit. I really have stayed longer than I should, but I don't want to leave without laying down a vote.

[Liosan]

I'm back! Also, I need a shower. So, I'm not really back yet.

[Silanah]

Liosan, on 25 May 2010 - 06:02 PM, said:

I'm back! Also, I need a shower. So, I'm not really back yet.

Might wanna be careful. You might put yourself out! Charmander dies that way, you know...

/pokemon nerdery

[Mockra]

Olar Ethil, on 25 May 2010 - 05:31 PM, said:

Mockra, on 25 May 2010 - 05:21 PM, said:

So here's the scene people are using to tie the bald man to the Syndicate:

Quote

The old man leaned back in the thick white leather of the backseat of the Mercedes, and looked sternly at the other two sharing the cabin with him, a bald man and a young woman with features as fine as porcelain. "Listen, you youngsters. You should be grateful that I have accepted responsibility for you and our mission. If I didn't, the two of you would probably be dead already. Now, here's what I want you to do. We will soon arrive in Kyoto. When you are there, you go to a simple hotel – and no sharing rooms! – check in, and you wait there for my call. No decadent foreign spy will search in such a place."
He sniffed, then shouted: "driver! Drop these two at the nearest busstop. They can find their way. Then to my hotel. Call my secretary and servant and tell them that I do not want to be disturbed until after dinner."

Now I am starting to see the real logic in this case. The "old man" is in the car with the "bald man." We already believe the "Old man" to be Syndicate. However, that would indicate that the "Old Man" forced his own agent's vote on Day 1 (possibly unforced it on Day 2, if the Bald man was the technology hater).

So now why do we think it's more likely that Rashan is the bald man than the man in the white suit?

One thing to point out here. This could also be a meeting between JP Spies. The mention of "Foreign" Spies might imply that they all are natives to this land. Doesn't mean that 1 or more can't be scum, but it could indicate a meeting of the JP team.

That was brought up and is an interesting point because of:

Quote

7 points: All Japanese players must be targeted with a harmful ability during the same phase.
5 points: All Japanese players must be lovers with one another.

If the Japanese are now lovers with each other (per that scene), do they now have the 5 points? And if so, could they use harmful abilities on each other (like vote-forcing, for example) to try and hit the 7-pointer? Seems kind of unlikely until they know each other than they'd do that, though...

[Mockra]

Olar Ethil, on 25 May 2010 - 05:33 PM, said:

Mockra, on 25 May 2010 - 05:27 PM, said:

We only have seen the "Man in the White Suit" once, but we have seen a man in an Italian Suit and we've heard about a man in expensive clothes... they could be the same.

Quote

They made an unlikely pair, the long faced man approaching middle age, absorbed in the match, and the young man with the expensive taste in clothes, leaning back as he made his moves and studying everything but the board. "Why are we playing this game?" he asked at some point, with a wink to a lovely young Japanese student.
"I need to know how you think if we are to work together," the other answered.
"Weird. All you'll learn is that I have no patience for chess."

Quote

"Hi there," she said. "Nice shirt."
He grunted, smoothing his Italian suit. "Why does EVERYONE mention the shirt?" he asked, complaining.
"It is a rather bright pink. Now, on to business, we haven't got all day for pleasantries."

The chess man is playing with the expensive suit man. The Italian suit man meets up with a woman, most likely from the earlier scene:

Quote

The diner was clean and deserted. She threw a look on the menu on display in the ticket machine, then decided to just have a coffee. Pretty good stuff, for such an unassuming place. She looked at the only other person present, a young girl who looked not a year older than fifteen, and who would use the thirty thousand yen on extravagant clothes, most likely. She felt a pang of pity at the need to dress up in pink and violet and green. The money would buy her a quality bag – not Vuitton, of course, but good leather and design. Each to his own, though, and in the end, the information she was about to receive about the man in the pink shirt more than made up for the fashion disaster soon to hit the streets. Sometimes, the ends really did justify the means.

To me the last quote is the Woman doing a find on the Pink shirted man.

That's obvious, I think. I was just tying people together by scene and description, not necessarily actions.

[Meanas]

Silanah, on 25 May 2010 - 06:02 PM, said:

Meanas, on 25 May 2010 - 05:50 PM, said:

The possibility that it could be a chinese spy that removed Rashan vote Shadow train is possible but it did more harm as it looked like someone was trying to save shadow but wasn't willing to publicly defend him, that a scum operating procedure you don't want to defend a team mate to heavily in that it would give you away especially when the guys isn't there to defend himself.

If it was a spy abilities then I think it was misused as it didn't help shadow at all.

That's assuming it was designed to help Shadow, but that's just too much WIFOM for me to stomach.

I'll deliberate on it for a little bit. I really have stayed longer than I should, but I don't want to leave without laying down a vote.

That what I was trying to get at if the action was meant to help shadow it didn't work, it seems to benefit scum more as it helped lynch of a spy.

The only reason why I assume a spy would use such an ability is that they assumed shadow was scum and they made it easier for him to be lynched by interfering.

[Mockra]

Meanas, on 25 May 2010 - 05:35 PM, said:

Right I'm back.

About Rashan mystery votes a few possibilities I can think of, either someone is setting him up and make it look like we can't trust Rashan for a vote as it will be interferred with. But it just seems a waste of an ability to keep hitting the same player. Unless the guy who is using said ability knows something about Rashan that we don't. Or the guy with vote tampering abilities just picked Rashan out of the hat and is just doing the same action to create wifom.

Or based on the fact the second vote tampering resulted Rashan's vote being removed from the shadow train, which convinced the few people holding back to go and vote for him as it looked like someone was trying to save shadow. Butsuch an action was more likely to get shaow lynched and it benefitted scum more. If we go with that the vote tampering abilities is a scum abilities, then is there a reason to keep hitting Rashan, one possibility is that it is his own abilities he is using on himself and he is bluffing us, or the person who has vote altering abilities has been told that some people are immune to such actions, he was successful with Rashan the first time and he is playing safe.

Or scum know each other and it an intentional play. Most people wouldn't do that sort of action as it means fucking a bit with your own team mate, but if the scum communicate then it very likely a plan to make one of them less of a target for a lynch.

Rashan post count on day 3 shot up from 13 to 36 posts, ok day 3 included thursday, friday and monday. That would mean in a nice spread he makes around 8 posts a day, not that much of an increase compared 13 posts for the first two game days which means 6-7 posts a day. But on the Thursday and Friday stretch he made 7 posts, and on monday 16 posts in 77 minutes. That a big jump in posting rate. The fact that jump puts him in the middle of the posters and a less likely candidate for a low poster lynch. If we couple that with what appears to be a scum action interfering in his voting (how often do you see a game where fellow team mates interfere in each other actions and so forth) then Rashan is not the name that comes to mind when it comes to looking at who is low posting and thus who may be the best lynch out of that list.

Basically the cf for Rashan or anyone else for the matter is a 50/50 they are either a spy or a scum player, forget about nationality for the moment. We should only consider nationality later in the game to ensure that we have eliminated one scum player for each nationality to be on good form. Also it later in the game when we should consider playing factions, at this point we should be playing as town vs scum.

Vote Rashan

How is the CF 50/50 spy/scum on "anyone else?"

[Kaschan]

Im here, gonna hold off voting until I get home. About 2 hours from now. Thoughts then.

[Mockra]

Path-Shaper, on 25 May 2010 - 05:57 PM, said:

She waited at the hotel for her, looking like she had just stepped out of an advertisement. "Nice car, darling."
"Thank you."
"ypu must be tired after the long drive, but there is something we have to discuss."
"Bad news?"
"No, not in itself."

~~

"Harry, come here, bring that camera. I want to do an interview with this nice young man, who has just been the target of a most vicious assassination with, you can't believe it, a throwing star. Please sir, tell me, how did this happen?"

So we have another meeting-type action and, well, I'm not entirely sure. This seems to indicate the same guy that almost got hit by the throwing star earlier, but why would there be a second scene about it unless the guy took some kind of action in response to almost being killed?

[Mockra]

Is there any real case that clearly states Rashan is the bald man? Meanas could just as easily be that guy.

[Silanah]

Mockra, on 25 May 2010 - 06:13 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 25 May 2010 - 05:57 PM, said:

She waited at the hotel for her, looking like she had just stepped out of an advertisement. "Nice car, darling."
"Thank you."
"ypu must be tired after the long drive, but there is something we have to discuss."
"Bad news?"
"No, not in itself."

~~

"Harry, come here, bring that camera. I want to do an interview with this nice young man, who has just been the target of a most vicious assassination with, you can't believe it, a throwing star. Please sir, tell me, how did this happen?"

So we have another meeting-type action and, well, I'm not entirely sure. This seems to indicate the same guy that almost got hit by the throwing star earlier, but why would there be a second scene about it unless the guy took some kind of action in response to almost being killed?

Was the ninja on a train? I thought that she targeted dirty blonde woman. Can't remember if there was another. Harry was the dude who was Skyping his wife earlier as well.

EDIT - added 'she targeted', removed 'was'

This post has been edited by Silanah: 25 May 2010 - 06:24 PM

[Hood's Path]

Oh god. I've not slept since Sunday. I can't go to bed for several hours and my vision is all fuzzy around the edges. Do you have any ideas how hard it is to read almost six pages of this game when you're seriously sleep deprived?

Anyways, I think I made it quite clear that my absence just before the week end, yesterday and today were because of real life circumstances. It's not really something I could do anything about. However, I would argue that I was one of the higher actual contributors -if not highest posters- up until that point.

Sheltatha Lore, on 25 May 2010 - 04:58 AM, said:

Ok, here is my amazing case.

Hood's Path is in the middle of the pack and fits the "cruising scum" profile. Limited content to his posts and hasn't contributed a thing - although he has enough posts to find himself in the middle of the pack. This snarky comment he makes early on could well apply to him for the whole game:

Hood, on 19 May 2010 - 11:10 PM, said:

So you've read through the thread yet not seen anything suspicious? How did you manage that?

Nothing scummy jumps out in his posts specifically, but that's not unusual (when was the last time we caught someone doing something scummy who was actually scum)? A lot of one line posts as well.

OK HP, what's up?

I already posted what's up. Outside of that, I've listed my suspicions regularly through out the game, yet somehow you've failed to noticed that it seems. As for when we've caught scum from posting scummy... Are you serious? It's quite a common occurrence as you should well know.

.. apologies for short temper. I get grumpy when I'm tired.

[Mockra]

Silanah, on 25 May 2010 - 06:23 PM, said:

Mockra, on 25 May 2010 - 06:13 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 25 May 2010 - 05:57 PM, said:

She waited at the hotel for her, looking like she had just stepped out of an advertisement. "Nice car, darling."
"Thank you."
"ypu must be tired after the long drive, but there is something we have to discuss."
"Bad news?"
"No, not in itself."

~~

"Harry, come here, bring that camera. I want to do an interview with this nice young man, who has just been the target of a most vicious assassination with, you can't believe it, a throwing star. Please sir, tell me, how did this happen?"

So we have another meeting-type action and, well, I'm not entirely sure. This seems to indicate the same guy that almost got hit by the throwing star earlier, but why would there be a second scene about it unless the guy took some kind of action in response to almost being killed?

Was the ninja on a train? I thought that she targeted dirty blonde woman. Can't remember if there was another. Harry was the dude who was Skyping his wife earlier as well.

EDIT - added 'she targeted', removed 'was'

Good catch on Harry... interesting.

The Ninja was on a train last night and targeted the blonde then. I think she had a day-kill action today that she tried on the "young guy" with the big hair.

Quote

The ninja threw herself from the bridge, landing with a soft thump on the roof of the train. She knew the other would have taken the same course of action, being a secretive creature by nature, and she delighted in this kind of hunt. Ahead of her, the other woman moved, at the leats thirty metres away, nearly invisible in the night but for the smear of dirty blond hair. She flicked her wrist, and two throwing stars spun away from her hand. The throwing device was amazingly accurate: she saw the other stumble with the impact twice, then go over the side. Mission accomplished – no killing, just disabling. The other would be too busy tending her wounds to go for misschief.
She was oblivious to the man with the long raincoat and worn down shoes who had watched her jump, the subsequent action, and now put his pair of night goggles and the attached binoculars down, his own mission also accomplished.

[Silanah]

Mockra, on 25 May 2010 - 06:05 PM, said:

Olar Ethil, on 25 May 2010 - 05:31 PM, said:

Mockra, on 25 May 2010 - 05:21 PM, said:

So here's the scene people are using to tie the bald man to the Syndicate:

Quote

The old man leaned back in the thick white leather of the backseat of the Mercedes, and looked sternly at the other two sharing the cabin with him, a bald man and a young woman with features as fine as porcelain. "Listen, you youngsters. You should be grateful that I have accepted responsibility for you and our mission. If I didn't, the two of you would probably be dead already. Now, here's what I want you to do. We will soon arrive in Kyoto. When you are there, you go to a simple hotel – and no sharing rooms! – check in, and you wait there for my call. No decadent foreign spy will search in such a place."
He sniffed, then shouted: "driver! Drop these two at the nearest busstop. They can find their way. Then to my hotel. Call my secretary and servant and tell them that I do not want to be disturbed until after dinner."

Now I am starting to see the real logic in this case. The "old man" is in the car with the "bald man." We already believe the "Old man" to be Syndicate. However, that would indicate that the "Old Man" forced his own agent's vote on Day 1 (possibly unforced it on Day 2, if the Bald man was the technology hater).

So now why do we think it's more likely that Rashan is the bald man than the man in the white suit?

One thing to point out here. This could also be a meeting between JP Spies. The mention of "Foreign" Spies might imply that they all are natives to this land. Doesn't mean that 1 or more can't be scum, but it could indicate a meeting of the JP team.

That was brought up and is an interesting point because of:

Quote

7 points: All Japanese players must be targeted with a harmful ability during the same phase.
5 points: All Japanese players must be lovers with one another.

If the Japanese are now lovers with each other (per that scene), do they now have the 5 points? And if so, could they use harmful abilities on each other (like vote-forcing, for example) to try and hit the 7-pointer? Seems kind of unlikely until they know each other than they'd do that, though...

I guess that means the Japanese have 3 players? It also points to the bald man and the old man being Japanese, so either Meanas or Rashan (assuming we're right) is Japanese.

I'd disagree with you on the seven-pointer. Harmful actions are Hindering, Guarding, Killing and Recruiting, so they couldn't target themselves in the one phase, as one would cancel out the other - guard would stop any action on player B, hinder would presumably act similarly to a guard, and recruiting wouldn't work, but it still harmful, so the only viable option is recruiting and killing, if they have BPs.

[Liosan]

Just to throw this out there, the people in the car aren't just "foreign spies", they are "decadent foreign spies." Now, to every nationality, the others will be "foreign." The decadent part is seemingly unnecessary. So, it is there for a purpose. What nationality would say the others are "decadent?" I'm going with the Chinese. Communism, you know.

[Silanah]

Liosan, on 25 May 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

Just to throw this out there, the people in the car aren't just "foreign spies", they are "decadent foreign spies." Now, to every nationality, the others will be "foreign." The decadent part is seemingly unnecessary. So, it is there for a purpose. What nationality would say the others are "decadent?" I'm going with the Chinese. Communism, you know.

Americans aren't decadent? Could be just creative license too.

[Mockra]

So then, aren't votes for Rashan or Meanas basically votes for a Syndicate or Japanese member? It's not much different than D'riss's "Vote Ruse" strategy of trying to get either a Syndicate or a Chinese player removed.

[Silanah]

Mockra, on 25 May 2010 - 06:33 PM, said:

So then, aren't votes for Rashan or Meanas basically votes for a Syndicate or Japanese member? It's not much different than D'riss's "Vote Ruse" strategy of trying to get either a Syndicate or a Chinese player removed.

Pretty much from what I gather, which is why I haven't committed to either of them.

[Liosan]

Silanah, on 25 May 2010 - 06:32 PM, said:

Liosan, on 25 May 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

Just to throw this out there, the people in the car aren't just "foreign spies", they are "decadent foreign spies." Now, to every nationality, the others will be "foreign." The decadent part is seemingly unnecessary. So, it is there for a purpose. What nationality would say the others are "decadent?" I'm going with the Chinese. Communism, you know.

Americans aren't decadent? Could be just creative license too.

That's the point. Why would the Old guy call the "foreign spies" decadent? Could be creative license. Could be a nod to Chinese communism.

[Hood's Path]

Liosan, on 25 May 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

Just to throw this out there, the people in the car aren't just "foreign spies", they are "decadent foreign spies." Now, to every nationality, the others will be "foreign." The decadent part is seemingly unnecessary. So, it is there for a purpose. What nationality would say the others are "decadent?" I'm going with the Chinese. Communism, you know.

To my mind, both Japanese and Chinese spies would describe all other nationalities as decadent. Look at Tapper, she's European and decadent.