[Liosan]

Okay. I've got a bit of a window. I'm going to get caught up and see what is going on.

[Liosan]

Fener you around?

Well as I am on the verge of being lynched now I need to start laying down what I know for a fact.

I am a healer so am a potato.

Fener if he does not hammer me I believe him to be a potato as he has had two opportunities to get someone lynched and has passed both by on what is most likely D-Day. One of those lynch targets was Mockra and one as myself. Passing up on a hammer opportunity once at this stage of the game you can't really put much stock in it. Because if he is scum then he would not want to get his teammate lynched. But doing it twice on two people that have been at each others throats for the last day speaks of me as an innocent and not scum especially when there are most likely only two scum players left.

Now Korbas... I don't know what to think of him. As everyone knows that he was on my train to lynch Mockra and now he is on Mockra's train to lynch me. That tells me one of two things. One he doesn't have a clue what is going on and is easily swayed or two, he is scum and neither Mockra or I am scum and he is just as happy to get rid of either one of us. If that is all of the info I had I would lean towards him being scum and is just playing us but he has revealed to be a guard and stated that he guarded me the night Galain got night killed. i know that someone guarded me that night because I put a heal on Galain and yet he was killed. So am still undecided as to his position.

Mockra I was so sure that you were scum because of what I picked up on Galains post but like you said there were two other people mentioned as well. I'm still leaning that you are scum but I'm not 100% sure anymore.

now as for Ampelas and Osseric I haven't looked at either one of them at all so I have no read on them whatsoever. Though given that Osseric could hammer me leads me to believe that he's is a potato as well.

So in summary

Liosan
Fener
Osseric
Korbas

are potatos

Ampelas
Mockra

are meat

Though I believe that Korbas and Mockra could be switched so I would be willing to get rid of Ampelas

Ampelas has played a very similar game that Mockra is accusing me of playing as well yet he hasn't pointed his finger at Ampelas at all.

[Liosan]

vote ampelas

I forgot to place my vote.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 4. The clock is frozen, but lynches may continue.

6 players are alive
Ampelas,Fener,Korbas,Liosan,Mockra,Osseric

4 votes to lynch. 3 votes to go to night.


2 votes Ampelas (Osseric, Liosan)
3 votes Liosan (Mockra, Korbas, Ampelas)

Not voted
Fener

[Liosan]

remove vote

I was going back to do a reread mainly to find the post that Galain had made that made me suspicous of Mockra. i wanted to find the two other people that were also mentioned to get a clearer picture of who else might have wanted to target Galain for a night kill.

Well I never did find that post (will keep looking for it though) What I did find however makes me wonder if we are not making some colossal mistake. Read back on the the posts that got both Eloth and HP lynched. Everyone thought that Eloth was a symp and that most likely he was symping either HP or Korbas. Well both eloth and HP got lynched but we never did get around to lynching Korbas.

Why is that?

Well we were all distracted by the fact that Barghast was night killed though he was on everyones radar for a possible lynch the next day because he removed a vote at the last minute without an explanation. Also everyone believed that Eloth was a symp and of those still remaining Korbas was the only one not to vote for him.

It was also Korbas that supplied D'riss's name as being a possible killer because of his not being on to change his night actions from Barghast. Who else would benefit the most from that. Korbas as well because it still distracted everyone from the fact that we never played out who Eloth was symping. HP or Korbas.

If it wasn't for the fact that I was guarded last night I would totally believe that Korbas is a meat. Though Korbas's reveal has also be regarded with some suspision amoung the group especially in regards to the timing of it all. What does everyone think?

[Korbas]

Liosan, on 08 May 2010 - 08:34 PM, said:

now as for Ampelas and Osseric I haven't looked at either one of them at all so I have no read on them whatsoever. Though given that Osseric could hammer me leads me to believe that he's is a potato as well.

You're voting for somebody that you haven't looked at on Dday? Why?!?!

You also didn't address Mockra's huge case against you. Why didn't you reveal earlier - why would you do it only when you were positive there'd be a lynch on D'riss. You could have revealed before you voted, which would have given me a chance to change my guard and save Galain, but you didn't. You KNEW I was guarding you, yet you'd hammered D'riss. Why? Did you suspect he was a lbp or bp? Or did you simply make a big mistake which may very well cost us the game. I'm not saying you're the only one who has made mistakes, I've made my share of them this game, more so than almost anyone else. But either your reveal was extremely poorly thought out, like mine was, or you're scum.

[Liosan]

Fener, on 07 May 2010 - 06:59 PM, said:

Osseric, on 07 May 2010 - 06:48 PM, said:

Well here is how I see it and really unless Liosan and Korbas are on the same team, I think I have it right.

I am guessing that Scum didn't target Korbas last night because they thought our healer would Target the Guard. So they targeted the person they failed to kill before. The 2 scum Knew there was a healer running around because the guard wouldn't have worked on both and their Kill didn't go through. They also knew Korbas' reveal was legit..because he wasn't one of them.

So Liosan plays it tricky, and heals Galain. Korbas Guards Liosan. This was all stated on thread POST LYNCH, PRE NA RESULTS.

So Liosan's heal doesn't go through, and Galain gets NK'd.


As I know I am inno, and I believe the 2 reveals, because we still have no counter reveals, I am PI ing Lio and Korbas. That Leaves Fener Mockra and Amp.

There are 2 scum Left and we had Mockra at L-1 and Fener wouldn't vote. He is now CI in my eyes because he could have ended the game and won it for the scum if he would have hammered.

That Leaves Mockra and Ampleas for the scum.



The only real question is, does Fener/Korbas/Lio think I am scum. That will tell the tale. I am the only person that scum can really target at this point for a lynch. Which I expect them to do. Korbas and Lio basically VPI'd eachother and no one can think Fener is scum. ( unless mockra turns out to be scum, but we can re-evaluate then)

Thats just how I see it.

I see things very much the same way. Right now I am unsure on either Mockra or your own innocents. I also have to keep in mind that one of Korbas and Liosan could be telling the truth and the other not. Which would be Liosan not. Or they are both right and then our best bet at this time might be to lynch Ampelas , and have Korbas guard either you or Mockra. While Liosan heals him. That way if the remaining killer will either be blocked or will only be able to kill me, Osseric/Mockra (which he wouldn't do as that would make him a sure lynch) or Liosan. But we would know for sure who was scum. Unless Korbas and Liosan are both scum in which case they have played this thing beautifully.

I would be willing to go this route. What do you say Korbas? I Mostly belive that Korbas is a guard despite my concerns that we might have been played all game by Korbas. The whole being guarded thing I just can't get over.

[Liosan]

Korbas, on 08 May 2010 - 09:42 PM, said:

Liosan, on 08 May 2010 - 08:34 PM, said:

now as for Ampelas and Osseric I haven't looked at either one of them at all so I have no read on them whatsoever. Though given that Osseric could hammer me leads me to believe that he's is a potato as well.

You're voting for somebody that you haven't looked at on Dday? Why?!?!

You also didn't address Mockra's huge case against you. Why didn't you reveal earlier - why would you do it only when you were positive there'd be a lynch on D'riss. You could have revealed before you voted, which would have given me a chance to change my guard and save Galain, but you didn't. You KNEW I was guarding you, yet you'd hammered D'riss. Why? Did you suspect he was a lbp or bp? Or did you simply make a big mistake which may very well cost us the game. I'm not saying you're the only one who has made mistakes, I've made my share of them this game, more so than almost anyone else. But either your reveal was extremely poorly thought out, like mine was, or you're scum.

i'm still in catch up mode. I missed over 24 hours worth of action.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 4. The clock is frozen, but lynches may continue.

6 players are alive
Ampelas,Fener,Korbas,Liosan,Mockra,Osseric

4 votes to lynch. 3 votes to go to night.


1 vote Ampelas (Osseric)
3 votes Liosan (Mockra, Korbas, Ampelas)

Not voted
Fener, Liosan

[Korbas]

I don't want to go that route simply because I'm not at all sure that Ampelas is scum at this point. If we lynch him and we're wrong that's game over.

[Liosan]

Galain, on 06 May 2010 - 02:56 AM, said:

My greatest worry is that it's all a coincidence down even to HP's lack of reasoning and that the killers are to be found among Ampelas, Fener, Liosan, and Mockra. Mockra was number two of my list of suspects yesterday for instance but has been much less of a presence today.

In the end though, we need to make some choices and I'm quite comfortable with my vote on HP.

Okay here is the quote that I was looking for. I'm not sure how helpful it is. It lists both Fener and myself who I think are potatoes and Ampelas and Mockra who I don't.

[Liosan]

Fener, on 07 May 2010 - 05:25 PM, said:

Seven anonymous

Everyone please wave to DKt.

What the hell does DKT stand for. It's all over the thread and I have no idea what that means.

[Korbas]

Forum member who plays a lot of MAFIA is what I gathered. Could be wrong, though.

[Path-Shaper]

Dktorode is a player...we shortened it to dk or dkt

[Liosan]

Mockra, on 07 May 2010 - 08:19 PM, said:

Fener, on 07 May 2010 - 08:07 PM, said:

Now Mockra if Liosan is scum then he will have to kill Korbas at night. Which will mean to the rest of us that we lynch him.

Really I don't see any down side to my plan. One way or another a scum killer will be revealed and lynched.

Your plan is sound and holds ground if we make the assumption that Ampelas -IS- one of the killers. If he is not, we lose the game.

Fener, this is DDay, however saddly as it looks like. We lynch wrong, and a NK goes through, its down to 4 with 2 scums as WCS. We lose.

Mockra,

Ultimately everyone has to make a decision based on what people assume to be right. Certain players know who the scum are, that would be scum themselves. Everyone else can only base their decisions on what they see in the game and what they know to be true about their role and whatever abilities that they have and what they have learned from them.

The only person that I feel sure about is Fener. I also see two possible pairings. Korbas and Osseric or Mockra and Ampelas. As i mostly believe that Korbas is a guard and Osseric has PI'd the same players as I have I tend to believe that they are potatos. By process of elimination that leaves Mockra and Ampelas. You don't have to believe someone is Meat as long as you believe everyone else is a potato. Process of elimination.

I have made up my mind as to trust those that I know to be innocent. I will vote for whoever the majority of these three players want to vote for. Korbas, Fener and Osseric even if it is to vote me out. The fate of the game is in Your three hands.

Korbas I am putting in a heal order on you for my night action. My window has cloes I have to go.

[Mockra]

Liosan,

We're so far into the game, and almost 600 posts, that things shouldn't be simply 'assumptions'. They have stopped being those , and became facts.
Facts that point out, that your actions are so questionable, and your defense so poor, that you are lying.


*It was no secret that you will be guarded on Night 3. It was in plain sight for everyone to see.
*Instead of revealing prior to hammering, when you had more than enough time to do so, and help us come to better conclusions, you chose to delay your post knowing fully well that you are under guard all this time. This is not a move that an inno healer does. This is a scum move.
*You build your case based upon a conversation with a moderator, and a list that Galain made, that had half the people in the game currently in it, with your name as well.Using him as an excuse you get rid of someone who is on your trail while you frame someone else.This is a scum move.
*You tried to force a speed lynch based on momentum instead of discussion and analyze of lynch train , vote patterns and posts.Riding momentum without evidence is not what inno players do.This is a scum move.


All these are things you have not directly addressed, and I doubt you will. Your story has visible cracks all over it, and other people start to see it.

You proceed to find excuses by discrediting Korbas.You throw a theory that Korbas could be lying but a second guard (the true guard) guarded you on night 3.If there is a second guard, he had pleanty of time to allert us by now that Korbas reveals and claims are faulty- and would not let us lynch D'riss under those accusations.Mind I remind you, a lynch that you personally hammered.

You proceed to vote for Ampelas, and then immediately remove your vote while you write an entire post full of conspiracy theory that we are being played in a puppet-theatre by Korbas the maestro and orchestrate of the best scum move in the game so far.Mind you, that is a person that you have advocated that is inno WHILE he was on your side.And now you are trying to appear you are not sure.There's only one type in here who truelly knows who are the innos and who are not, and those are scum.

You then proceed to appeal to Korbas about a case, and perhaps get people to go back and vote on Ampelas. A person that noone has defended around here, someone you yourself voted, and retracted your vote immediately after.Discredit Korbas - appeal to Korbas, prod and pull , prod and pull.That is a scum move.


And finally, you leave the thread exclaiming your innocence, while you try to put pressure on the rest of the inno team that the game is in their hands. Of course its in our hands now, that we got to the point we finally got.Shrugging off responsibility is not something innos do, and its not something I'm willing to do.

You repeatedly bring leaking cases and leaking evidence in the scene. Everything I have pointed out so far, are based on things you have said or done- YOUR actions. Not theory, not assumption, not conversations with moderators that can't be verified. Everything I have been pointing out about you, is right here, in this thread, and in the course of actions that you have chosen to follow.They speak louder than I do.

[Osseric]

Does everyone not see ampleas just jump on, put no effort into anything, vote, and leave??? how can you not see him as scum. Korbas, welcome to mafia. You are being led around by the nose by Mockra. Once you get to SH you'll see this. Liosan is at L-1. I am not voting. Hopefully Fener gets on and see's the farce thats going on. If Korbas isn't gonna see the light the best we can hope for is a non-lynch.

[Osseric]

Korbas, on 08 May 2010 - 09:42 PM, said:

Liosan, on 08 May 2010 - 08:34 PM, said:

now as for Ampelas and Osseric I haven't looked at either one of them at all so I have no read on them whatsoever. Though given that Osseric could hammer me leads me to believe that he's is a potato as well.

You're voting for somebody that you haven't looked at on Dday? Why?!?!

You also didn't address Mockra's huge case against you. Why didn't you reveal earlier - why would you do it only when you were positive there'd be a lynch on D'riss. You could have revealed before you voted, which would have given me a chance to change my guard and save Galain, but you didn't. You KNEW I was guarding you, yet you'd hammered D'riss. Why? Did you suspect he was a lbp or bp? Or did you simply make a big mistake which may very well cost us the game. I'm not saying you're the only one who has made mistakes, I've made my share of them this game, more so than almost anyone else. But either your reveal was extremely poorly thought out, like mine was, or you're scum.

Why is it hard for you, the one making the mistakes, to believe someone else couldn't have made the same mistake? Hell, until Mockra posted it I didn't know who you were going to guard.

[Mockra]

Nobody expects you to hammer your partner, Osseric. Its understandable you'd rather keep him around for now.

As far as Korbas, I'm leading him by the nose? Classic comedy at best, got any other jokes with that? My case has been on LIOSAN from the getgo- never did I plead with anyone personally around here. The only ones I am intrested in seeing how things are happening, are team inno.

I don't give a rats ass about the rest.

[Osseric]

Mockra, on 08 May 2010 - 04:53 PM, said:

Osseric, your vision is so short sighted that you are 100% sure that Liosans reveal is true. You are putting our entire inno fate on the hands of a reveal, instead of our own abilities to distinguise scum from innos by the quality of their posts, and the arguements they use.In fact, you are so set on the roles, that you refuse to consider other possibilities in here.

Here's a small example:

Mockra, on 07 May 2010 - 07:21 PM, said:

Osseric, since you're so sure about me being a killer, find me a good enough reason why I wouldn't want to take a revealed guard out of the game with a NK.
You can't. It makes no sense at all.Leaving a revealed guard so late in game? What for? Potentially lose it?

Osseric, on 07 May 2010 - 07:25 PM, said:

You wouldn't want to take out a revealed guard because you KNEW there was a healer running around and that he would Likely heal the guard.

I ask a simple question: Why , in an 8 and very possible 6 man game, the killers wouldn't try to kill a revealed guard, instead leaving him around at such late stages, and risking one of them being lynched and the other locked down by the guard...

Now read your answer.Read it again.
Notice your structure. You are so convinced that there is a healer, that you actually say 'KNEW there was' instead of 'KNEW there MIGHT BE'.All, that from a post that had a hammer and a reveal , so late in the day!Nobody can really say that there IS a healer, apart from the guy who comes out with a convinient reveal!
Who among us here, can clearly come up and say with 100% accuracy that a healer is still among us? How do you not know that Eloth or Bargast were not a healer, how do you know D'riss was not a healer and in his anguish and despair, he let the entire flok here hang themselves for not listening to him.

Noone counted their eggs before they hatched. Liosans reveal landed right at the hammer. He fully said he intended to hammer! Until then, noone ever knew there was a healer, and noone ever counted on a healer to save our asses in this game. Because town NAs a lot of times are simply based on luck, rather than interaction and skill.Are you saying we're supposed to let luck decide the outcome of a Mafia game? Shit, lets start flippin coins from now on, heads scum win, tails town win, we can play 30 games per day that way.

Osseric, on 08 May 2010 - 03:15 AM, said:

Mockra is dancing around the issue here. he puts up an absurd amount of posts to show what? that Korbas said he was going to guard Liosan night 3 and that Liosan knew about it and based his plans around it? awesome. That proves squat. The fact is Liosan claimed healer and no one else has. We had no Kill on night 2. there is a healer. who the hell is it if it isn't Liosan.

Sigh.. Once again, I am not dancing around anything. Every single post I brought up there, is because its evidence of the framejob, and its burried in the back pages, so it needs to be brought up so people can finally see whats going on.Liosan knowing that Korbas will guard him proves that he needed to come forth way faster than when he actually did and never the less NOT hammer, and give Korbas enough time to remove his provisional and change his target, so he could be free to heal Galain if you bite what he says. The fact that he DIDNT speaks volumes that this is a fake reveal instead of a tricky and well played inno healer!
I already gave you an alternative as to why we didn't have a kill on night 2. You need more? How about D'riss being a loaded baked potato or a baked potato and the kill not registering because it hit his BP or hit his healed target? D'riss was so much all over the thread drawing attention with his behaviour that even if he came out with a reveal stating what he is, chances are EVERYONE would disregard it as they were so sure he's either a killer or a symp!

If all this has happened while we were down to the last 8, I would be the FIRST one to start an Ampelas train, and I would ride it and ride it until there is no blood left in his body, and it has turned to dust.But we're not. We're down to the last 6. And as proven by everything I have said, there are things you people have NOT considered, and it needed to be brought forth and said.

i say LOL to this entire post. all you do is argue semantics or argue for a deep seeded frame job conspiracy that puts the JFK assassination to shame. If scum win, you get motm for sure.