Malazan Empire: Who is Grizzin Farl? - Malazan Empire

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#21 User is offline   Midnight 

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 05:31 AM

No evidence for this really but my pet theory is that Grizzin Farl is the builder of the Azath that Nimander meets in TtH. He's referred to as an elder and he's definitely lost. Perhaps Grizzin Farl is the last of the Azathai (Azathnai?). Similarly to the way that Sechul Lath is a Forkrul Assail :)
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#22 User is offline   GingerBreadMan 

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 04:47 PM

View PostRoldom, on 22 July 2010 - 05:21 AM, said:

I always thought Ruthan Gudd was a stormrider in human form or at least in disguise, which explains his ice armor and him knowing greymane



I thought this but after a quick reread of his sections I changed my mind.

I don't think Ruthan is a Stormrider OR a God of any sort.

We are given a 1st person point of view when he is about to charge the Short Tails and he thinks "This Stormrider crap better work. But Gods know it hurts to wear".

It makes him seem like he is wearing something unfamiliar to him, like he was somehow using their magic or had somehow been granted it by the Stormrider's and or whoever they worship.

Of course that doesn't answer the questions about the Azath and Draconus which don't really make sense to me as he never showed himself to possess the kind of power that would allow him to walk around with the likes of Draconus.

Perhaps he was a human ascendant or local badass that was "taken" by the Azath, outlived his worshipers when Kallor killed everyone and has been kinda wandering around as a "forgotten" God since then?

Somehow he hooked up with Greymane, they tried to make peace with the Stormriders which is where he attained the "power" that covered him in ice armor?

His lack of worshipers would explain why he killed a relatively small amount of Short Tails, the armor thing comes from the alliance/friendship he made with the Stormriders
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#23 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 09:41 PM

I imagine, and I don't think this is a spoiler for the DoD forum since it's just conjecture, that Ruthan Gudd will actually play a bigger part in Stonewielder than any future Malazan novels (future chronology-wise, i mean, not publishing).
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#24 User is offline   Ammanas 

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 01:31 AM

There is a passage where Gudd recalls meeting Draconus(before Draconus ended up in Dragnipur)and believes if they meet again "one of them will die." I'll look up the page number but do we have an idea how long Drac was inside Dragnipur?
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#25 User is offline   GingerBreadMan 

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 02:23 AM

View PostAmmanas, on 31 July 2010 - 01:31 AM, said:

There is a passage where Gudd recalls meeting Draconus(before Draconus ended up in Dragnipur)and believes if they meet again "one of them will die." I'll look up the page number but do we have an idea how long Drac was inside Dragnipur?


I cannot imagine Gudd taking on Draconus, doesn't fit the character at all.

Draconus was one of the more powerful Elder Gods and anyone who could challenge him MUST be able to replicate what Quick Ben did..
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#26 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 07:09 AM

Actually, scratch what I said before. I think he's gonna be in Stonewielder to give him more background, but I also think there's a possibility he will appear in the future too. Perhaps after he did what he could to fight the Nahruk, he curled up in an indestructible armadillo ball of Stormrider armor.
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#27 User is offline   Ammanas 

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 01:44 PM

View PostGingerBreadMan, on 31 July 2010 - 02:23 AM, said:

View PostAmmanas, on 31 July 2010 - 01:31 AM, said:

There is a passage where Gudd recalls meeting Draconus(before Draconus ended up in Dragnipur)and believes if they meet again "one of them will die." I'll look up the page number but do we have an idea how long Drac was inside Dragnipur?


I cannot imagine Gudd taking on Draconus, doesn't fit the character at all.

Draconus was one of the more powerful Elder Gods and anyone who could challenge him MUST be able to replicate what Quick Ben did..


It seems weird to me, too. Pgs 619-620, he feels Draconus emerge from Dragnipur. "Draconus. Fuck." Pretty interesting couple of paragraphs.
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#28 User is offline   GingerBreadMan 

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 07:30 PM

Thanks for the page numbers..

On a reread it is even more bizarre. He meets Draconus on his way to Kallors empire..Draconus seems to warn him that he should stay away for his own good, Rudd claims he can stick to the shore and mind his own business.

Rudd ends up in an Azath so apparently he failed, presumably Kallor stopped him somehow.

Draconus emerges from the sword and Rudd acts like he and Draconus are mortal enemies that will fight to the death if they meet again, when their previous meeting was between friends.
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#29 User is offline   Ammanas 

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 10:16 PM

View PostGingerBreadMan, on 01 August 2010 - 07:30 PM, said:

Thanks for the page numbers..

On a reread it is even more bizarre. He meets Draconus on his way to Kallors empire..Draconus seems to warn him that he should stay away for his own good, Rudd claims he can stick to the shore and mind his own business.

Rudd ends up in an Azath so apparently he failed, presumably Kallor stopped him somehow.

Draconus emerges from the sword and Rudd acts like he and Draconus are mortal enemies that will fight to the death if they meet again, when their previous meeting was between friends.


Hmm, I wonder if Gudd was a Mortal Sword for the Stormriders,ended up in an Azath after coming out on the short end of a confrontation and recently rejoined the world much like Ruin did. I guess someone gifted him with that armor. Maybe Paran needs to create a house for the Stormriders.
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#30 User is offline   Baudinsballs 

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 11:13 PM

I think he's Ruthan Guld? It fits. I'm only 600 pages in to Dust of Dreams but is it really a coincidence that with in a page, we get this guy who disappeared and this other guy who joined for reasons as yet unknown, maybe running from something? Maybe Greymaine knows his identity, and he's with the Malazans as an ace in the hole.
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#31 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 02:10 AM

Well Grizzin Farl isn't a guy who disappeared, it's a god who apparently died, and whose corporeal body is no more as far as other gods can tell. Also it's not the first mention of Grizzin Farl in the series. Buuuuut none of that is to rule out anything or anybody.
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#32 User is offline   GingerBreadMan 

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 06:04 AM

View PostAmmanas, on 01 August 2010 - 10:16 PM, said:

View PostGingerBreadMan, on 01 August 2010 - 07:30 PM, said:

Thanks for the page numbers..

On a reread it is even more bizarre. He meets Draconus on his way to Kallors empire..Draconus seems to warn him that he should stay away for his own good, Rudd claims he can stick to the shore and mind his own business.

Rudd ends up in an Azath so apparently he failed, presumably Kallor stopped him somehow.

Draconus emerges from the sword and Rudd acts like he and Draconus are mortal enemies that will fight to the death if they meet again, when their previous meeting was between friends.


Hmm, I wonder if Gudd was a Mortal Sword for the Stormriders,ended up in an Azath after coming out on the short end of a confrontation and recently rejoined the world much like Ruin did. I guess someone gifted him with that armor. Maybe Paran needs to create a house for the Stormriders.


Possibly, at least I think more likely than him being an Elder God.

So the theory would be that he is an ascendant of some kind, at least someone familiar with Draconus. He wanders into Kallor's continent, doesn't mind his own business and ends up in an Azath for however long. Upon emerging he somehow meets up with Greymane who is at the time trying to set up a peace deal between the Stormriders and the Korelri. During on of their meetings Rudd and the Stormriders came to a deal of their own, perhaps they claimed him as a Mortal Sword or perhaps they just fell in love.

The deal goes sour, Greymane and Rudd split town.

Fast forward and Rudd is facing down tens of thousands of Nah'Ruk, he calls upon his Goddess/Ascendant/Ladyfriend who sheathes him in ice and off he charges.

His power is limited because he was never uber powerful to begin with, and he is really only an Ascendant or maybe a Mortal Sword/Destriant/Shield Anvil/Priest of the Stormriders whose power is probably limited by the fact he is in the middle of a desert wasteland far from their stronghold.

Far fetched theory but more likely in my opinion than an Elder God being captured by an Azath(can an Azath even contain an Elder God? I know Kilmandors was in one but she was willing and was in the "House" part not actually trapped by roots/stone) and then emerging to become a Captain in the Malazan Army that is overshadowed many times over by Quick Ben and even more so by the Matron and Icarium
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#33 User is offline   Roldom 

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 08:46 PM

can someone plz quote where it says he went to kallors empire? i dont remember that bit, tho i do remember him musing about draconus' return.
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#34 User is offline   Bauchelain the Evil 

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 02:49 PM

View PostGingerBreadMan, on 01 August 2010 - 07:30 PM, said:

Thanks for the page numbers..

On a reread it is even more bizarre. He meets Draconus on his way to Kallors empire..Draconus seems to warn him that he should stay away for his own good, Rudd claims he can stick to the shore and mind his own business.

Rudd ends up in an Azath so apparently he failed, presumably Kallor stopped him somehow.

Draconus emerges from the sword and Rudd acts like he and Draconus are mortal enemies that will fight to the death if they meet again, when their previous meeting was between friends.



I think you're getting the timeline wrong.

The way I read it Gudd had been trapped inside the Azath, then Kallor nuked his empire and the Azath was also destroyed. Shortly thereafter he meets with Draconus, either before or after Draconus and the other EG have their meeting with Kallor.
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#35 User is offline   ShadowRaven 

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 03:19 PM

This might be a bit of a stretch but I think Grizzin Farl is one of the souls inside QB. We don't know all of their identities, and it would also explain the no corporeal form part. Although it's just crazy theory stuff (and I can't check now since I don't have DoD at hand) but isn't QB walking somewhere in the Malazan camp and a bit later we see the scene where the heavies are looking at a footprint and think it's Grizzin Farl's.

It would also explain a lot of the comments about QB knowing things he shouldn't and the mentions that he might have to "reveal more of himself than he wishes to" if he goes all out similar to Tay.

This post has been edited by ShadowRaven: 21 August 2010 - 03:20 PM

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#36 User is offline   champ 

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 03:37 PM

View PostShadowRaven, on 21 August 2010 - 03:19 PM, said:

but isn't QB walking somewhere in the Malazan camp and a bit later we see the scene where the heavies are looking at a footprint and think it's Grizzin Farl's.



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This post has been edited by champooon: 21 August 2010 - 03:38 PM

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#37 User is offline   Sanctume 

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 11:49 PM

I wonder if Grizzin Farl is aspected to High Mocra and makes even the Elder Gods think he is dead.
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#38 User is offline   UnknownSoldier 

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 07:46 AM

View PostSanctume, on 31 August 2010 - 11:49 PM, said:

I wonder if Grizzin Farl is aspected to High Mocra and makes even the Elder Gods think he is dead.


Just putting this out there, but does anyone think Kruppe could be Grizzin Farl? If you think about it he acts sort of like Mael in that incognito sort of way. We have also seen Kruppe do things that simply can not be explained by being a mage (dodging Brood's hammer for one).

This post has been edited by UnknownSoldier: 02 September 2010 - 07:48 AM

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#39 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 07:52 AM

Kruppe is a mortal. Erikson has stated that he is.

Kruppe is under the protection of K'rul.
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#40 User is offline   ThinkingMalaz 

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 10:10 AM

OK another crazy theory with very little to support it but I can't shake it


Edgewalker is Grizzin Farl (maybe). Edgewalker says to cotillion that he should consider him 'elemental' and before explains that the elder Gods are that. Now we know that a busload of eleint, Elder Gods and Soletaken were all fighting to gain control of shadow and in the process sundered the whole realm. What if Grizzin Farl was one of the would be usurpers of the throne (edgewalker is, if we are to believe him) that eventually got ousted and bound. Edgewalker is bound to shadow, no-one really knows who or what he is except for the clue he puts out to cotillion that he is Elder.

Is this just crazy? Or might I be on to something?
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