[The Seguleh 46th]

I have no idea, other than he's an Elder God. Read the thread on the QB theory, but i tend to agree that he is not GF, just a really powerful mage with alot of trust issues and a smattering of secrets. Could be Ruthan Gudd, as he somehow knows Draconus and seems to want to kill him, but we have so little to work with on him. Maybe GF's tied up in whatever is happening on Assail that we won't know about for a long time to come. I really don't know, but would love to hear specualtion on who this mystery Elder is!

[worry]

Ruthan Gudd is the Elder God of beards. Kinda like Santy Claus, hence the snow powers.

As for Grizzin Farl, I'm not particularly of the opinion that he's the scary sleeping guy under Drift Avalii, but that's still possible right? I'm still pretty curious as to who that is.

[Aptorian]

I believe the accepted forum theory is that Grizzin Farl is the Elder God of Toast. Delicious toast.

Personally I hate the theory that Grizzin Farl should be Ruthan Gudd. The Elder Gods we have seen have been extremely strong and had a variety of powers. I refuse to believe that an Elder God that has survived hundreds of thousands of years of existance decided to become captain in a human army and then killed himself by leading a solo charge into a herd of KCCM.

An Elder God, even a weak one, should have been more capable than that. A strong EG like Mael could simply have disappeared them with a thought. Draconus could have insta freezed them. Even a weak god like the Errant was in MT, could have nudged them, creating chaos and destruction.

Ruthan Gudd was in my opinion probably something in the line of a First Hero of the human First Empire. To be honest, he didn't seem that impressive, just very brave.

Erikson once stated that we shouldn't expect to see Grizzin Farl in the series, I hope it stays that way. Then again, he also claimed there was no Hounds of Light...

[borstalboy]

GF's EG pals seem to think that:
1)he disappeared millenia ago
2)he might be dead
3)his corporeal body has been destroyed

as to who he is, it is anybody's guess.

Aptorian, on 23 March 2010 - 07:50 AM, said:

I believe the accepted forum theory is that Grizzin Farl is the Elder God of Toast. Delicious toast.

Personally I hate the theory that Grizzin Farl should be Ruthan Gudd. The Elder Gods we have seen have been extremely strong and had a variety of powers. I refuse to believe that an Elder God that has survived hundreds of thousands of years of existance decided to become captain in a human army and then killed himself by leading a solo charge into a herd of KCCM.

no, they generally tend to become high mages n move around with a lover/bodyguard T3 with an odious moniker, n get ripped to pieces by a demon.

Quote

An Elder God, even a weak one, should have been more capable than that. A strong EG like Mael could simply have disappeared them with a thought. Draconus could have insta freezed them. Even a weak god like the Errant was in MT, could have nudged them, creating chaos and destruction.

we don't know enough about EGs. there may have been thousands (cf. god graveyard or whatever that was where that giant dude who carried brys off lived or existed or whatever), n the ones that r still around may be only the strongest ones.


also, drunken sot n his wife didn't do much besides burnin up.

Quote

Ruthan Gudd was in my opinion probably something in the line of a First Hero of the human First Empire. To be honest, he didn't seem that impressive, just very brave.

whoever he is, i don't think he's dead yet, not before SE reveals more about him. unless he doesn't plan to... which would be so not cool.

[Abberon]

Aptorian, on 23 March 2010 - 07:50 AM, said:

Personally I hate the theory that Grizzin Farl should be Ruthan Gudd. The Elder Gods we have seen have been extremely strong and had a variety of powers. I refuse to believe that an Elder God that has survived hundreds of thousands of years of existance decided to become captain in a human army and then killed himself by leading a solo charge into a herd of KCCM.

Sister of Cold Nights (one of the 3 EG's along with K'rull and Draconus so probably a big baddie) was Nightchill and was killed during the siege of Pale.

Aptorian, on 23 March 2010 - 07:50 AM, said:

An Elder God, even a weak one, should have been more capable than that. A strong EG like Mael could simply have disappeared them with a thought. Draconus could have insta freezed them. Even a weak god like the Errant was in MT, could have nudged them, creating chaos and destruction.

I don't think Elder Gods are necessarily more powerful than others. There's a ton of references throughout the book of a younger being giving an Elder God pause.

Aptorian, on 23 March 2010 - 07:50 AM, said:

Ruthan Gudd was in my opinion probably something in the line of a First Hero of the human First Empire. To be honest, he didn't seem that impressive, just very brave.

I thought he was pretty impressive. Using stormrider armor and hacking through a bunch of Nah'ruk without getting slaughtered right away was pretty tough stuff. I'll agree that he's almost certainly not Grizzin Farl given that he was one of the big baddies the Errant and Kilmandaros were talking about. I think your guess is better than most.

Aptorian, on 23 March 2010 - 07:50 AM, said:

Erikson once stated that we shouldn't expect to see Grizzin Farl in the series, I hope it stays that way. Then again, he also claimed there was no Hounds of Light...

I'm not really convinced Erikson really knows WHERE his books are going until he actually writes them. I think anything and everything could happen in volume 10.

[The Seguleh 46th]

Loving the theories here. Maybe i should go back and reread, but do we know that Gudd did in fact die? I know he was getting pulled off his frozen horse, but then IIRC, it then panned away to some other action and that was that. I'm not gonna get too crazy here, as i tend to believe that he did in fact die, but with SE, ya never know! I just think SE wouldn't specifically name an EG and simply not use him somewhere in the course of the series, or at the least leave it to ICE to follow-up on.

On the Drift Avali sleeping baddie, i had forgotten all about that. That is a major peak of curiousity now that you mentioned it. Could it be an actual entity, or maybe one of the various pieces of The Crippled God that got scattered all across Wu (Wu is the accepted forum name for this planet, or am i just being a tard?)? Huh!

[Sinisdar Toste]

yeah its pretty common parlance... though i still think its kinda silly

[Abberon]

The Seguleh 46th, on 23 March 2010 - 04:19 PM, said:

On the Drift Avali sleeping baddie, i had forgotten all about that. That is a major peak of curiousity now that you mentioned it. Could it be an actual entity, or maybe one of the various pieces of The Crippled God that got scattered all across Wu (Wu is the accepted forum name for this planet, or am i just being a tard?)? Huh!

I really doubt that whatever is under Drift Avali is Grizzin Farl. They said Grizzin Farl had no corporeal form and was possibly dead. Whatever is under Drift Avali is probably just one of those really ancient old sea gods/creatures like whatever is/was living under Letheras. There are lots of old and forgotten things in the world and many of them I'm sure SE will never explain.

[worry]

So you're saying it's a Balrog?

[Aptorian]

Seriously, maybe with the exception of the concept of the Space Marines, I can not think of any Fantasy or Sci-fi creatures that are as awesome as the Balrog. Maybe the Shrike, but he doesn't have the same awesome entrance that the Balrog got in Fellowship of the Ring.

[Abberon]

Aptorian, on 23 March 2010 - 08:56 PM, said:

Seriously, maybe with the exception of the concept of the Space Marines, I can not think of any Fantasy or Sci-fi creatures that are as awesome as the Balrog. Maybe the Shrike, but he doesn't have the same awesome entrance that the Balrog got in Fellowship of the Ring.

No really...the Balrog is probably the coolest and scariest thing ever. Shadows AND fire??? Awesome. Gandalf vs the Balrog was the most epic fantasy moment in the history of book writing. Nothing even comes close in my opinion.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Continuing with the off topic I want to say that if you ever read The Judging Eye by Bakker, you'll read the scene that Moria should have been and never was. But yes Balrog are awesome.

[The Seguleh 46th]

Yep! I think we have it! Grizzin Farl is a Balrog with a giant red beard and an oversized blue ox for a jolly ole sidekick! The Paul Bunyan of Elder GOds. Mystery solved......

[Abberon]

Bauchelain the Evil, on 24 March 2010 - 03:46 PM, said:

Continuing with the off topic I want to say that if you ever read The Judging Eye by Bakker, you'll read the scene that Moria should have been and never was. But yes Balrog are awesome.

I read it. For me it was probably the low point of the whole series thus far. It was too much of a rip-off of Moria for me to take seriously.

[Tatterdemalion]

I kind of hope that some of those 'famous names' STAY just that. Names.

It adds to the realism of the series that there are epic and awesome characters ELSEWHERE or at OTHER TIMES when there's so many he does mention. If every powerful character was wicked wrapped up in the story, they might all stand too tall. I loved not knowing anything about Greymane (till RotCG, but within SE canon Greymane remains an often talked about, never present legendary warrior and general akin to Dujek, Ultor, etc.) Grizzin Farl I hope remains as he is. A mystical figure of legend. Not everyone has to turn out to be Hellian or something.

As for Ruthan Gudd, I bet we've heard that last of him, though obs I could be wrong.

[Ulrik]

Grizzin Farl is Kruppe. Best hiding place ever. "Hi Krull, I dont know you, lets be friends...muehehehe..."

And Ruthan Gudd - damn, he cant die without explaining!!! He simply cant die, I began to like him.

[The Seguleh 46th]

Ulrik, on 31 March 2010 - 08:53 AM, said:

Grizzin Farl is Kruppe. Best hiding place ever. "Hi Krull, I dont know you, lets be friends...muehehehe..."

And Ruthan Gudd - damn, he cant die without explaining!!! He simply cant die, I began to like him.

Ya know? That is a damn good opinion on the Kruppe angle! Smartest man in the world with maybe a fragment of an EG soul inside? Huh! I like it alot! The "Elder God of Toast" inside a fat man who loves food! What better place?!

And Gudd....man, i hope he's not dead either! Really like him alot as a character.

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 31 March 2010 - 04:38 PM

[Salt-Man Z]

With the connections to Greymane, I'd imagine that at the very least we'll be seeing more of Ruthan Gudd in Stonewielder.

[Harvester]

*whistle*

This post has been edited by Harvester: 20 June 2010 - 10:48 AM

[Roldom]

I always thought Ruthan Gudd was a stormrider in human form or at least in disguise, which explains his ice armor and him knowing greymane