[Serc]

 Shadow, on 17 March 2010 - 03:46 PM, said:

 Mockra, on 17 March 2010 - 03:14 PM, said:

Not only is that weird, but Fener promised a big Serc-and-somebody-else-who-I-cant-remember-connection case. Apparently he's copping out. Maybe there's something to read into that...



This isn't a drunken post, but I'm drunk. I'm pretty good at spelling when drunk. It's St. Pattys day, so, there it is.

I'm going off to pass out.

Vote Fener

because it seems apropo.

It was Serc and me. But really, self-voting this early is awesome!

So it was. Didn't even notice, I keep forgetting what alt I'm in when I start a new game. Now I actually want to hear what he would have said.

Wouldn't someone who survive's a lynch be a prime target for possible killers? So selfvoting isn't as harmless as what it's being made out to be in terms of not dying anyway. I suppose it depends on how this lynch goes I guess, once we have a better idea how the inquisition is going to use their power it will help.

[Serc]

 Shadow, on 17 March 2010 - 03:50 PM, said:

The best strategy I've heard so far all game is to try and lynch anybody today, offered by GL. I do think it's a bit silly that it was based upon some ancient meta hate, but I, too, have been burned by that alt in the past, and he did just ask for it.

/shrug

Remove Vote
Vote Fener

Is that a lynch? I think it is.

Off to organise food for myself, hopefully there will be a resolve by the time I get back.

[Shadow]

Kalse, Ruse, Fener, GL, Mockra, Serc, Shadow should make it L-1

edit: I thought I accidentally lynched him after I voted, but I double-checked and Mockra removed his earlier vote and then re-voted later.

I do think the most telling 'pairing' info I could pull today was Kalse opening the game with a vote on Mockra (for being 'first') and then after Mockra joke-voted Fener, Kalse hopped along too. It wasn't quite as silly as "I agree" but it was noteworthy.

This post has been edited by Shadow: 17 March 2010 - 03:58 PM

[Anthras]

I wonder, if he is from one of the watches, would the Inquisitors probably keep him alive to keep the watches balanced? TBH, with the Inquisitors having to last until day 10 I would think they'd keep anyone alive today just to build their chances of keeping the game going that long...

[Ruse]

Yeah by my count were at L-1

@shadow that does sound a bit telling, il go back and check on that

[Anthras]

i can hammer.

[Anthras]

Think we have like an hour left? Probably won't get anything extra out of that so should I just hammer now?

[Anthras]

Hmm, when GK left he didn't give exact number, just said around 12, so just to be safe

vote Fener

[Ruse]

think weve got about 22 minutes left actually might as well hammer.

On that Kalse, Mockra thing it is possible especially as on that first mockra vote by Kalse he actually makes a point of saying that it will look sympish... that sort of thing always looks dodgy to me.

[Anthras]

Hmh, saw PS in here a moment ago...

[Ruse]

Yeah me too, hopefully we wont be waiting too long for PS or for whoever is inquisition to make a choice

[Ruse]

Also woo, we've been stickyfied

[Path-Shaper]

Sorry for being late. Was revising and what not.

That a successful vote.

The inquisitors surrounded the accused Fener, they looked at each other, conferring upon what to do. A blue light infused Fener's body, he writhed in pain and as suddenly it began it stopped. As Fener looked at his arms and hands, it was clear that they were fine. Remembering his torturers he looked around and found himself alone in the room.

Fener has been tried by the inquisition but has been allowed to live.

It is end of day.

Pleased submit your night actions if you have them.

15 Players playing.

Night should have have started a hour and half ago, but as I wasn't on I start the clock now. 12 hours for action submission.

GK

[Anthras]

That's what I expected. Too bad we don't get any info about the lynch'ee even if they live...

[Omtose]

I'm around.

Fener was behaving wierd, but the case on him seems kind of insubstantial. Day one I suppose. It seems to be a rule that lynches give information. Which, while generally accurate, isn't really true. Lynches give information if they are based on something, and not just a collective agreement for little reason. Which this sort of seems to have been.

The thing is, fener seems to have had quite strong feelings about who is scum. His actions are certainly strange, but not overtly scummy, and I wonder if it would not have given us more information to lynch one of those he accused rather than him.

It also occurs to me that when he said tommorow he meant game time. Could be either though...

[Omtose]

Double post.

This post has been edited by Omtose: 17 March 2010 - 04:27 PM

[Ruse]

 Omtose, on 17 March 2010 - 04:26 PM, said:

I'm around.

Fener was behaving wierd, but the case on him seems kind of insubstantial. Day one I suppose. It seems to be a rule that lynches give information. Which, while generally accurate, isn't really true. Lynches give information if they are based on something, and not just a collective agreement for little reason. Which this sort of seems to have been.

The thing is, fener seems to have had quite strong feelings about who is scum. His actions are certainly strange, but not overtly scummy, and I wonder if it would not have given us more information to lynch one of those he accused rather than him.

It also occurs to me that when he said tommorow he meant game time. Could be either though...

The thing is there actually wasnt a case on him before he started acting weird, the only reason we were voting him was because lynching him would likely the give the inquisitors info on him and would be better than the no lynch we were looking at.
It was when he came on and self voted and asked for death that people actually started trying to justify the vote for him.

[Anthras]

 Omtose, on 17 March 2010 - 04:26 PM, said:

I'm around.

Fener was behaving wierd, but the case on him seems kind of insubstantial. Day one I suppose. It seems to be a rule that lynches give information. Which, while generally accurate, isn't really true. Lynches give information if they are based on something, and not just a collective agreement for little reason. Which this sort of seems to have been.

The thing is, fener seems to have had quite strong feelings about who is scum. His actions are certainly strange, but not overtly scummy, and I wonder if it would not have given us more information to lynch one of those he accused rather than him.

It also occurs to me that when he said tommorow he meant game time. Could be either though...

I don't think it would have mattered, the inquisitors would probably have let anyone live today, as the watches are no doubt quite small initially and therefore the balance is easily upset. And since we get no info from a not-allowed lynch we'd be at this same point regardless of who.

I'm off for a bit, cheerio.

[Spite]

First of all, I've got to say that messing with lynch mechanics is a big no no in my book.

 Alkend, on 17 March 2010 - 09:53 AM, said:

 Galayn Lord, on 17 March 2010 - 09:44 AM, said:

 Alkend, on 17 March 2010 - 09:37 AM, said:

We do win if the Inquisition wins. So we definitely don't want to treat them as scum!

what i meant is that it doesn't matter if we do end up targeting them by mistake.

If we see people acting as a pair we dont have to worry about them being Inquisition...because they control the bloody lynch outcome.

Maybe wrong choice of words but yea...we can ESSENTIALLY treat them as scum. But we dont need to right now.
One of our conditions is ALSO to kill ALL factions...in fact that was our only condition till PS realized the logic error in our conditions.

But for now i agree i dont see any other option but to help the inquisition.

The inquisition may control the lynch outcome, but we're not sure to what extent. See earlier where I speculated that they may not be able to prevent their own lynch. Not disagreeing with you on the practice of lynching people freely due to the supposed control the inquisition has, though. Just pointing out that it might not be complete.

I was going to respond to this before I saw that there had been a lynch. Sufficient to say I think the only way for us to succeed as RI is to actively aim to lynch those we think are scum and let the inquisition sort out any sort of balance issues. Additionally, being meek and careful is frightfully boring and will make this a looooooong and uneventful game.

 Kalse, on 17 March 2010 - 10:12 AM, said:

 Serc, on 17 March 2010 - 09:54 AM, said:

 Kalse, on 17 March 2010 - 08:42 AM, said:

 Serc, on 17 March 2010 - 06:27 AM, said:

Voting night doesnt seem like a great idea to me. With plus-minus 8 RI and two recruiters, I doubt there will be a single RI left past day 6, basically you're saying you'd rather sit around and wait to be recruited than play as an RI. With no idea what's going on at night we have to be proactive during the day. I think the best bet at this point is to look for recruiters and try get one early. Hopefully the inquisition will see the value in this and let the lynch go through, since the quickest way for the inquisition to win would be to take both recruiters out early. I know the chances of hitting two recruiters early on is slim, but let's at least have an established game-plan here - it might make it easier to spot someone who has been recruited if they start to deviate from it.

Except that the Inquisition needs to keep both sides (day and night) around to keep the balance, or so I read the VCs.
So, why would they want to remove the prime balancing tool to overcome setbacks/ lucky pot shots? It is much more beneficial to take out the vigs/killers and so ensure that the Inquisitor(s) survive the game, ensuring also RI victory.

One more thing about the advantage of cutting days short and sitting things out:
It is the day & night watch that must play and profit from active play as they need to sort out who is with whom and who they must take out. Maybe they have night actions to that effect, maybe they don't - who knows.

To team inno, the very best stance is to keep the waters muddied, making sure the sides can't read one another or get a grip. We win when at day 10 there are still members of both watches alive. Hence, it seems to be that the best way to do this, is make sure they remain hidden amongst the crowd, also giving the Inquisition a chance to hide, too. Any of them stepping out to play or direct others, are probably watch members.

Sad but true, Inno equates inactivity to me, for now, as the best way to victory.

Checking in quick, I have to disagree with this line of reasoning. Yes, at this point the RI's best chance of winning is siding with the inquisition. For the inquisition, not having anyone do anything works out fine, but as an RI it's a terrible idea. If we're not actively trying to cripple the watches by removing the recruiters, by the time day 10 comes round, there will be no more RIs left and only the inquisition wins. I really dont see how 8 people wont be recruited after 18 recruitment attempts. Assuming a recruitment per night, but I'm going with WCS here. Maybe, just maybe there might be an RI who was missed, but I'm not going to bet on being that guy.

So the only way the RIs might win by doing nothing is if the Watches manage to NK each other's recruiters, without NKing any of the inquisition. Assuming the watches have an NK. It seems likely given the lynch mechanics, but we're far from informed here. Maybe the inquisition don't get told the faction of the person up for the lynch and they have to guess. Maybe they get a find as an NA or are only told the starting lineup. Maybe they aren't allowed to stop a lynch on themselves. We really cant tell at this point, it's bad play to base our gameplay on the assumption that they are all-powerful.

If the watches do have an NK, or even an NK every second night, that's 8 possible kills, maybe more. High enough that maybe they'll hit a couple of people in the other watch, but the chances of the inquisition getting killed before day 10 are also pretty high. Plus the number of RI who might get knocked out in the crossfire. So we need to take the watches out, else we're setting ourselves up for a loss in one way or the other. Hopefully the inquisition will realise they need to let lynches go through, unless the lynch is on a member of the faction that is likely to have less numbers, else the chances of them surviving are pretty slim.

So while i'm an RI, I'm going to play as such, but to assume that the other factions will engineer a scenario in which victory just drops into my lap is foolhardy in the extreme. The way to win as an RI at the moment is to do everything possible to stay RI, and that definitely wont happen if we just sit back.

Your reasoning was good, right up till that point as can't take the watches out. Not completely. If we remove one, the other wins. I hate being lethargic and I feel doing nothing is sabotaging the game, and knowing Ment there's probably a safety net, but if we go with 2 watch members a side, hitting one today with a lynch will mean a lucky kill (if they can kill), by the other side is game over...

We lynch as hard as we can, and if there's a problem we'll just have to trust the inquisition. In fact, in many ways this game makes it damn easy to be an inno as we'll never do a catastrophic lynch.

Now, I'll wait until the night ends before I start mentioning my suspects, minor as they are at this point.

[Gamelon]

Oh I see that I missed a nice day one speed lynch on Fener. I don't really have anything to add right now. It seems most of the discussion has been about the balance of the game and whether the inquisitors are going to let a lynch go through. My only thought right now is that if they don't let lynches go through this is going to be a long long game.