[Eloth]

Tabbing? You mean ghetto-screening?

Anyways, any thoughts?

[Anthras]

This morning when I read I thought Ruse was probly not inno because he was kinda rejecting the plans to try and win as innos, made it seem like he was a shadowy figure trying to subtly encourage the RIs to sit back and try and get recruited. Now though, I've re-read and not so sure.

[Path-Shaper]

For the record: the movie wasn't great, but the books were. and they've been transtlated to English, and i'm told the translation was decent

votecount coming up...

[Eloth]

I've already stated the only weird thing that struck out to me. Other than I think Fener's random call out of Serc and Shadow.

I'm completely confused by this game so far, and while some of that is the game, some of it is just probably lack of reading comprehension so far. I dazed through the talk of faction distribution.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1, 12 hours and like 23 minutes left

15 players playing: alkend, anthras, D'riss, eloth, fener, Gamelon, Gay lord, Kalse, Mockra, omtose, osseric, ruse, serc, shadow, Spite
8 to lynch or go to night

2 votes Fener (Mockra, Kalse)

13 people have not voted: alkend, anthras, D'riss, eloth, fener, Gamelon, Gay lord, omtose, oseeric, ruse, serc, shadow, Spite

[Anthras]

Yeah well they've thrown out a couple numerical ideas of faction dist'b'n but it all boils down to 3 small factions, 2 that can recruit and a big pool of RIs.

[Eloth]

Hmmm, what made you read not RI there, Anthras? Was it the comment about asking to be recruited in a past game?

[Anthras]

Just a gut feeling I think, combination of a few things - definitely the ref to the inno plan not working from the RotK game was a factor.

[Path-Shaper]

teh mod is going to bed. play nicely, you still have like 12 hours.

[Shadow]

Fener, on 17 March 2010 - 01:16 AM, said:

Today sucked. Tomorrow might be better. I am no help (and have 2 votes on me). Serc and Shadow are partners. More tomorrow. Evidence against Serc and Shadow tomorrow.

Catching up before bed, but thumbs up on your amazing forthcoming case, matey. Doubt we're going to get any lynch today so you'll have plenty of time to share it tomorrow

[Shadow]

And not much else of note, IMO.

Chances of a lynch are slim and none considering 1) the time and lack of any real case and 2) unless I'm mistaken, inquisition have zero reason to lynch anybody on day 1 since that has the potential to throw off the balance if a watcher is lynched off.

Vote Kalse

Mostly for leaving the vote on Fener, although I am quite tempted to pre-OMGUS him for his drive by finger-pointing!

[Shadow]

Theory-wise, the best way I can see to proceed is to figure this as simple town v scum and try to lynch based upon typical patterns.

[Shadow]

K I'm out for the night, only other thing I noticed is everyone's checked in except for D'riss, and about half of the game is full of low-posting bastards!

[Serc]

I dont get what the problem with the RI victory condition is - GK clarified that if the inquisition wins, all unrecruited RIs win with them. It contradicts what is written in the role pm a little, but it makes sense. It's might also be possible for the RI to win without the inquisition, but only under very unusual circumstances, so it doesnt help to dwell on them.

Voting night doesnt seem like a great idea to me. With plus-minus 8 RI and two recruiters, I doubt there will be a single RI left past day 6, basically you're saying you'd rather sit around and wait to be recruited than play as an RI. With no idea what's going on at night we have to be proactive during the day. I think the best bet at this point is to look for recruiters and try get one early. Hopefully the inquisition will see the value in this and let the lynch go through, since the quickest way for the inquisition to win would be to take both recruiters out early. I know the chances of hitting two recruiters early on is slim, but let's at least have an established game-plan here - it might make it easier to spot someone who has been recruited if they start to deviate from it.

I also got a bit of a 'this guy seems roled' vibe from Ruse early on, his questions didnt seem to match the info I'd been given so far, but he was correct in the clarification that was required and once I saw the way he was approaching the situation it made me think he's more likely to be an RI.

Got work to do now, will hopefully have time for a reread a little later, see if I can't see anything that looks like a roled player.

[Mockra]

Sorry everyone, had a password snaafu and couldn't get on for a few hours.

I've got nothing but hunches so far. Before Fener came on and random-mentioned Serc being partnered I was already getting a pretty decent feeling that Serc isn't RI. I don't know what he is, but I doubt RI. I'll be interested to hear Fener's actual evidence.

I also AGREE with Serc that Ruse appears roled, but not my vibe for Ruse isn't as strong.

Thing is, this speculation doesn't really avail to anything. I'm not going to vote night, but I don't really see what sort of voting makes sense simply based on role or lack of role. Voting for RI would probably result in a successful lynch, since the arbiters would have no issue with allowing that to happen, but there's little point in voting RI's off. All that does is lessen recruit pools and doesn't actually change the face of the game. I suppose it provides a tiny bit of information, but since it's not town vs. scum, that information is less useful in the initial stages at least.


btw

Remove Vote

[Kalse]

Alkend, on 17 March 2010 - 01:27 AM, said:

I think that, until we get a lynch through and a day/night cycle out of the way, we won't be sure where to go at all. GK's response was basically: innos are screwed, stop thinking about how to win 'cuz you can't.
Which is a piss-poor reply. The inno faction should always have an equivalent method of winning the game to any other faction. I'm not complaining about imbalance or anything, rather thinking that it's stupid to put in an inno VC if it's nigh-unattainable. Just outright state that we practically can't win and let us get on with it. XD

agree. But we win when the Inquisition wins, and we don't have to have a huge number of players left to do that. In fact, we can all be dead and we still win as long as they do.

Quote

That being said, I still think the innos should play to win: we support the Inquisition as much as possible. Now, if there are 2 kills a night, and 2 recruits, that's going to make lynching any innos very bad. Because we don't want to thin our ranks too much elsewise the Inquisition won't make it to day 10. :S

Agree with the underlined.
With 2 kills a night, there will be no way to make it to day 10 with 15 players unless some of us have kevlar even up their butt. So, I rather doubt that will be the kill ratio.

Notice also that the Day/Night watch goals do not deal actively with innos. They deal with elimination of the other side. Recruitment is thus, for them, a survival strategy to overcome setbacks. It only becomes a great means to an end once the Inquisitor(s) is/are dead, as the side then controlling the vote can lynch an opposing number and increase their numerical superiority.

[Kalse]

Serc, on 17 March 2010 - 06:27 AM, said:

Voting night doesnt seem like a great idea to me. With plus-minus 8 RI and two recruiters, I doubt there will be a single RI left past day 6, basically you're saying you'd rather sit around and wait to be recruited than play as an RI. With no idea what's going on at night we have to be proactive during the day. I think the best bet at this point is to look for recruiters and try get one early. Hopefully the inquisition will see the value in this and let the lynch go through, since the quickest way for the inquisition to win would be to take both recruiters out early. I know the chances of hitting two recruiters early on is slim, but let's at least have an established game-plan here - it might make it easier to spot someone who has been recruited if they start to deviate from it.

Except that the Inquisition needs to keep both sides (day and night) around to keep the balance, or so I read the VCs.
So, why would they want to remove the prime balancing tool to overcome setbacks/ lucky pot shots? It is much more beneficial to take out the vigs/killers and so ensure that the Inquisitor(s) survive the game, ensuring also RI victory.

One more thing about the advantage of cutting days short and sitting things out:
It is the day & night watch that must play and profit from active play as they need to sort out who is with whom and who they must take out. Maybe they have night actions to that effect, maybe they don't - who knows.

To team inno, the very best stance is to keep the waters muddied, making sure the sides can't read one another or get a grip. We win when at day 10 there are still members of both watches alive. Hence, it seems to be that the best way to do this, is make sure they remain hidden amongst the crowd, also giving the Inquisition a chance to hide, too. Any of them stepping out to play or direct others, are probably watch members.

Sad but true, Inno equates inactivity to me, for now, as the best way to victory.

[Galayn Lord]

alright im back and caught up.

It seems to me the best bet for now would be to carry on as if the watch are the main scum. But the Inquisition can and should be treated as scum as well, as i will explain further down.
For now never the less...Keeping the inquisition around are, by the looks of things, our best hope of victory.

Our initial VC is that ALL factions must be killed off... But with the info we have, it seems that it is impossible for us to kill off both NW and DW at the same time.
One will die first giving automatic victory to the other...
But there must be a reason why PS said initially we win by killing off all the factions...correct?... with no mention of if the inquisition wins we win too?
PS must have had SOMETHING in mind for the RI victory but for now, we dont have enough info so we cant really hope to win by trying to kill off all the factions.
Especially since PS wont give us the necessary details to TRY and accomplish this as it will "give too much away".
So i think PS maybe made a slight mistake and now has perhaps decided to tie our VC with the inquisition?...that, or he felt it was very funny to cripple us

Since PS wont tell us in detail how else we can win, then we have no choice but to pursue the inquisition victory for now.
Besides...as was mentioned earlier...i doubt very much that we can even lynch the inquisition.
So we can carry on looking for any faction type behavior be it inquisition or Watch... and since as RI we can only influence this game by lynching and the inquisition controls THAT outcome it sort of makes sense for us to be tied with them anyways.

Now another thing to consider is... will the inquisition bother killing/lynching anyone at all?
They only need to keep balance. So i would think that only if a NK goes through on one faction will they let a lynch go through and only if it is a lynch on an opposing faction.
Therefore keeping balance. But that would lean heavily towards the fact that Inquisition getting some sort of indication on the person in questions allegiance, would this not give team Inquisitor too much power? They already decide who lives or dies now they get a find too?
Shit im not too sure on that one.

So anyways... as an inno we are pretty bloody useless...fodder for the factions.
...meh

im just musing...
Ive just realised that even if we DO get a watch faction lynch...and the inquisition let it go through then we and the inquisition are actually just heling the opposing watch faction in the process.

im actually at quite a loss as what to do now, going full circle in my thoughts... only thing that rings true to me is to help the inquisitors till we get more info really...

[Galayn Lord]

Wait wait....

I just had a thought.

The VC for the Watch are:

Day watch Destroy the night watch
Night Watch destroy the day watch

Maybe the Watches have to do the killing THEMSELVES to for fill the conditions?
Maybe a lynch does not count untill after the inquisition is all gone?...as of now a lynch is essentially a kill by the inquisition!!

Can PS confirm?...

[Galayn Lord]

Kalse, on 17 March 2010 - 08:42 AM, said:

To team inno, the very best stance is to keep the waters muddied, making sure the sides can't read one another or get a grip. We win when at day 10 there are still members of both watches alive. Hence, it seems to be that the best way to do this, is make sure they remain hidden amongst the crowd, also giving the Inquisition a chance to hide, too. Any of them stepping out to play or direct others, are probably watch members.

Sad but true, Inno equates inactivity to me, for now, as the best way to victory.

yup like i said innos are faction fodder...

Just on the bold part, not only do they need both watch factions alive on day 10 to win, they also have to have both sides balanced aswell.
So day 10 comes and one watch faction has 5 and the other 3 they have to get the sides balanced to get the victory. So it would seem the game wont necessarily end on day ten, could be long after too?



edit - bad punctuation fucked up sentence, plus typos

This post has been edited by Galayn Lord: 17 March 2010 - 09:05 AM