[KalamMekhar]

not a very good topic to start conversation with in my mind, there are plenty of other things he could have done/used in order to stir up conversation, rather than this tunnel

[Darkwatch]

Other than the fact that he cheapened rape for shock value.
So rape victims have their traumatic assault used for marketing purposes.
Stand up guy.

[Gem Windcaster]

Darkwatch, on 23 February 2010 - 07:01 PM, said:

Other than the fact that he cheapened rape for shock value.
So rape victims have their traumatic assault used for marketing purposes.
Stand up guy.

Exactly. I stand by my initial response:

Attention seeker much?

[Jusentantaka]

Gem Windcaster, on 23 February 2010 - 06:59 PM, said:

CreepingD, on 23 February 2010 - 06:42 PM, said:

I be Mr Killjoy then:

http://blogs.miamine...rape_tunnel.php

It was a hoax designed to start conversation.
Course, I think this thread proved that the idea worked anyway!

I disagree, this thread just proves that people neither like rape nor maniacs. I don't see any actual meaningful conversation coming from this 'hoax'.

Same here. Its just like Irreversible. Oh look! graphic rape and murder on film! lets go have a circle jerk talking about how rape is bad... and stuff. yeah. cause we never ever thought it was bad before.

I'm still as much in favor of burning him alive as I was before though...

This post has been edited by Jusentantaka: 23 February 2010 - 10:16 PM

[Jusentantaka]

Ribald, on 23 February 2010 - 07:27 PM, said:

There are all manner of crazy things done in the name of art that personally I don't like or don't appreciate or even don't understand.

Like I just wrote in a cut-short rep comment, I have never been able to understand the mind of the modern artist. There's really no doubt in my mind that this c**t and his people think this is some sort of righteous charge against injustice - or some bullshit. I guess I'm just some crazy ultraconservative.


oh. erhm?

This post has been edited by Jusentantaka: 23 February 2010 - 07:39 PM

[Tapper]

Jusentantaka, on 23 February 2010 - 07:38 PM, said:

I guess I'm just some crazy ultraconservative.

Yes, you are.














or maybe it's just that art is no longer something that should please the viewer/ buyer as in the good old days where people paid Rembrandt to put them on canvas but just a tad prettier than they actually were, but instead should express the artists convictions, ideas and views. Everyone wants to be Damien Hirst these days.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 23 February 2010 - 08:47 PM

[Cold Iron]

Firstly, meaningful discussion has already come from it in this thread, despite it's being a hoax.

Secondly, rape is a socially faux pa topic so generating discussion on it is commendable. On this topic do you think that being raped in this fashion would cause as much psychological damage as a regular rape? I would propose that knowing you had the power to prevent it - by not entering the tunnel - would almost entirely negate the long term emotional damage of the event, which is caused largely by the fear of having your will removed by another.

Thirdly, if it wasn't a hoax and it in my area I would totally go in. Why? Because there's no way he's going to rape anybody. The suggestions that walking in is in some way consent is ridiculous. If the punch in the face thing actually happened then it was only in order to lend a sense of realism to this, make people believe it might actually happen. But it wouldn't. He wouldn't even try.

Lastly, I'm surprised people have been talking about prison without seeing the interesting implications. Not only is Mezla right about her scenario, but there is another scenario. Every time someone commits a serious crime there's a chance he'll go to prison, where he is likely to be raped - just like walking down the tunnel. Not only that but attempting to rape you would be illegal, and so he would go to prison for that, and enter his own rape tunnel. The implications of what may or may not happen to you or him as a result of making this decision is indeed, as salt-man said, an interesting thought experiment.

ETA: Also, jusen, are you talking about the movie momento with guy pearce? cos that's one of my favourite all time movies.

This post has been edited by Cold Iron: 23 February 2010 - 10:00 PM

[Jusentantaka]

Cold Iron, on 23 February 2010 - 09:55 PM, said:

ETA: Also, jusen, are you talking about the movie momento with guy pearce? cos that's one of my favourite all time movies.

...


...


Lawl. Irreversible, not Momento. And this is far from the first time I've done that too. whatever. *edits*

[Tapper]

Cold Iron, on 23 February 2010 - 09:55 PM, said:

Firstly, meaningful discussion has already come from it in this thread, despite it's being a hoax.

Secondly, rape is a socially faux pa topic so generating discussion on it is commendable. On this topic do you think that being raped in this fashion would cause as much psychological damage as a regular rape? I would propose that knowing you had the power to prevent it - by not entering the tunnel - would almost entirely negate the long term emotional damage of the event, which is caused largely by the fear of having your will removed by another.

Thirdly, if it wasn't a hoax and it in my area I would totally go in. Why? Because there's no way he's going to rape anybody. The suggestions that walking in is in some way consent is ridiculous. If the punch in the face thing actually happened then it was only in order to lend a sense of realism to this, make people believe it might actually happen. But it wouldn't. He wouldn't even try.

Lastly, I'm surprised people have been talking about prison without seeing the interesting implications. Not only is Mezla right about her scenario, but there is another scenario. Every time someone commits a serious crime there's a chance he'll go to prison, where he is likely to be raped - just like walking down the tunnel. Not only that but attempting to rape you would be illegal, and so he would go to prison for that, and enter his own rape tunnel. The implications of what may or may not happen to you or him as a result of making this decision is indeed, as salt-man said, an interesting thought experiment.

ETA: Also, jusen, are you talking about the movie momento with guy pearce? cos that's one of my favourite all time movies.

While your discourse is very interesting and thought out, the answer to the bolded part can only be: 'yes.'
Let's look at it as if it wasn;t a hoax, and a woman enters that contraption. It will hurt as much, even though she could know what would happen, and has been forewarned.
Why? Because all the stigmata that surround regular rape are there as well. you KNOW people will say 'she invited it by entering that tunnel (equivalent of: wearing that dress)'
The hurt, invasion and robbing of dignity and the violation are the exact same, too. Do you imagine a rapist will suddenly turn into a gentle lover if she's there with some thought of volition? Of course not. If you believe the sentences after your statement, ask yourself this: do you think a 'regular' rape victim blames only others/ the rapists for her rape? I doubt it, if only because of the voices in the background and her going over the circumstances in which it happened, playing the scenario over and over in your mind and finding a myriad of stuff she would/should/thinks she should do differently to prevent it.

as for Irreversible: that was one horrifying scene.

[Illuyankas]

The concept of 'inviting' rape by wearing clothing that is more revealing than a burka is very damn high on the list of things that I will go out of my way to tell the speaker, "NO. YOU ARE WRONG AND PROVABLY RETARDED. SHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU FUCKING C**T."

This post has been edited by Illuyankas: 23 February 2010 - 11:05 PM

[Cold Iron]

I see the liberalisation of women's clothing customs as an indication of that societies respect for women and general civility. In a perfect world a man or woman should be free to be in any state of dress or undress at any time according to their choice without fear of judgment, recrimination or violent attack. There is nothing wrong with and no reason to repress sexual desire (eta: not that hiding a woman's form going to achieve this). Indeed there is nothing wrong with and no reason to repress the sexual act but I'll stop before going so far as to condone public sex.

Back to the question of whether tunnel rape < normal rape I'm still sticking with the conclusion that if the person is well aware that the artist has stated they will stand in the end of the tunnel and rape everyone who enters and they decide to enter anyway it can be every bit as violent and painful as a regular rape but cannot be as mentally terrifying because of your a priori knowledge.

This post has been edited by Cold Iron: 24 February 2010 - 12:39 AM

[Jusentantaka]

Nothing so fun as a bunch of men talking about what rape would be like. Its just so cute.

[Cold Iron]

I understand your desire not to potentially rub a victim's face in it, jusen, but surely the topic can be discussed in an open and adult manner? If not for the sake of free speech then perhaps for the sake of encouraging victims not to feel too ashamed to talk about it, further isolating them and worsening their mental stress?

ETA: Interestingly, we seem to have 2 gothos'

This post has been edited by Cold Iron: 24 February 2010 - 02:05 AM

[Darkwatch]

Sorry CI, but I disagree.
If the main trauma from a rape is due to feeling powerless than even knowing it would happen would not make it any less worse than if you didn't. Since if he does manage to rape you, you were powerless to stop it when the cards hit the table. It could be even worse due to self-recrimination afterwards for having walked down that tunnel knowing well what might happen instead of steering clear. Which may make the person feel like they deserved it, which would lead to massive self-destructive behaviour.

Unfortunately neither of us are psychologists, the only one on the forum I know who has studied this is Mentalist.


Edit:
Might be a good idea to send this to the DB now.

This post has been edited by Darkwatch: 24 February 2010 - 02:10 AM

[Gem Windcaster]

Cold Iron, on 24 February 2010 - 12:38 AM, said:

Back to the question of whether tunnel rape < normal rape I'm still sticking with the conclusion that if the person is well aware that the artist has stated they will stand in the end of the tunnel and rape everyone who enters and they decide to enter anyway it can be every bit as violent and painful as a regular rape but cannot be as mentally terrifying because of your a priori knowledge.

Rape is rape, man, just as torture is torture, and rape is torture. That you have 'prior knowledge' that someone will, say, tie you up and electrify your dick, would that make it less mentally terrifying? I'm pretty sure 'prior knowledge' wouldn't help. Man I can't believe I have to explain this. The point is you cannot have 'prior knowledge' of what will happen if you have never been raped, you dumbass, just like you wouldn't be able to correctly imagine the pain and horror if someone carved up into little pieces while you were wide awake. And as for the act of walking into the tunnel of free will, only someone sick and/or insane would even consider it, which makes this whole discussion disturbing at best.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

HEEL GEM, HEEL GIRL

My philosophy on art is the same as on civil disobedience.

Go ahead and do it, because you're expressing yourself, but be willing to own the consequences. Which in this case apparently includes jail time and Jusentantaka killing you in the face.

This post has been edited by Adjutant Stormy: 24 February 2010 - 04:52 AM

[Gem Windcaster]

Yeah okay, I'm fine now. I'm breathing.

Although I still have visions of excessive violence towards...things.

This post has been edited by Gem Windcaster: 24 February 2010 - 04:56 AM

[Adjutant Stormy~]

Penises? Or artists? Or some admixture therein?

[bubba]

Per the thread starters request, this thread has been moved to the discussion forum. Please keep it civil, the usual rules apply.....that is all.






















































I almost used this smillie.... ....but thought better of it.....

[Aptorian]

Darkwatch, on 24 February 2010 - 02:09 AM, said:

Might be a good idea to send this to the DB now.

I've sent a report asking if someone will move the thread. Seems people have entered the trenches in this thread.

Gem Windcaster, on 24 February 2010 - 04:08 AM, said:

Rape is rape, man, just as torture is torture, and rape is torture. That you have 'prior knowledge' that someone will, say, tie you up and electrify your dick, would that make it less mentally terrifying? I'm pretty sure 'prior knowledge' wouldn't help. Man I can't believe I have to explain this. The point is you cannot have 'prior knowledge' of what will happen if you have never been raped, you dumbass, just like you wouldn't be able to correctly imagine the pain and horror if someone carved up into little pieces while you were wide awake. And as for the act of walking into the tunnel of free will, only someone sick and/or insane would even consider it, which makes this whole discussion disturbing at best.

Whoah there, no reason to resort to name calling, that's just mean.

Prior knowledge does not imply omnipotence, it implies that by stepping into this contraption you are aware of the consequences. Just like riding a motorbike at 200 miles per hour could see you stripped of a square meter of human flesh and crippled for life, or taking a hit of Acid could drive you mentally insane or jumping into the Tigerpit could see you torn to pieces. Things have consequences. Speaking of this thing is like Schroedingers Rape Box, the person stepping in is in a quantum state of rape. It hasn't happened yet (and wont). So chill.

The guy is an equal opportunity rapist. He'll rape you if you're male or female. Don't get all "this is all about you men not understanding women and the victimization of the weaker sex, hurf durf". Do you have any idea of how many men get rapped in prisons ín America for example? Some American prisons are like rape factories. Joking about rape (unless its prison rape, which is always hilarious, ho ho) is obviously tabuu, just like just speaking of the matter is getting every body rilled up, but that's the whole point of the project and the fake report on it's construction. It creates tension. It pushes people's buttons. Personally I think just "The Hoax" itself is a kind of art, look how much attention it's getting.

EDIT: Yeah, I typed this before the move.