[Ulrik]

worrywort, on 02 November 2010 - 08:50 PM, said:

A third thought: perhaps she's not crazy, and she's not actually all of these mother goddesses, but she was being metaphorical...she's a self-appointed representative of mother goddesses, whether they like it or not. A little crazy, she's not so different from the Matron in MOI.

Agree...I always (well, almost always) viewed OE as representation of motherhood...and it doesnt have to be same person as Burn, Stone Bitch etc.

[Thel Akai]

Unless she's just making it all up she could be an aspect of a hypothetical Mother Chaos and could then claim to be the ancestor of just about anything.

[Leanoric]

Not sure if this argument has been raised before, but:

Olar Ethil claims to be the original soletaken/d'ivers. What, then, if the original Burn was d'ivers, and Olar Ethil is one of the d'ivers that got split off and separated from the rest, presumably before Burn went to sleep. The ritual may have been the thing that prevented the Olar Ethil portion of Burn from merging back with the rest. This could explain her assertion to be Burn (and, perhaps other female figures which may have been other d'ivers portions of Burn). And is could also explain her craziness, as we know that insanity is usually what happens when a d'ivers portion becomes separated from the rest.

Sorry if this has already been suggested - I couldn't see it explicitly mentioned anywhere in this thread...

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Leanoric, on 03 November 2010 - 12:36 PM, said:

Not sure if this argument has been raised before, but:

Olar Ethil claims to be the original soletaken/d'ivers. What, then, if the original Burn was d'ivers, and Olar Ethil is one of the d'ivers that got split off and separated from the rest, presumably before Burn went to sleep. The ritual may have been the thing that prevented the Olar Ethil portion of Burn from merging back with the rest. This could explain her assertion to be Burn (and, perhaps other female figures which may have been other d'ivers portions of Burn). And is could also explain her craziness, as we know that insanity is usually what happens when a d'ivers portion becomes separated from the rest.

Sorry if this has already been suggested - I couldn't see it explicitly mentioned anywhere in this thread...

Well, Abyss has theorized that perhaps all the EG's are a separated D'ivers, so its not entirely a new notion.

But I do like your take that it was just Burn and OE that were D'ivers since they both seem to be aspected to motherhood somehow, and the T'lan ritual stopping her from rejoining Burn makes a lot of sense.

[worry]

I kinda doubt that, simply because Wu/Burn/whatever you wanna call it had plenty of history before the EGs arrived from wherever it is they came from, and that seems to include the dragons. I wonder more if Olar Ethil is related to Draconus/Nightchill/Krul who are all EGs, and presumably all (given the info we know on Draconus) related somehow to Tiam as well. It's still kind of murky to me which EGs come from Tiam, which come from Mother Dark, and if any (Osserc esp.) come solely from Father Light....and I'm not sure a totally clear answer exists, since it's a weird balance SE/ICE have to walk between the natural fog of mythology/origin stories and clarifying it to a satisfying degree.

[Thel Akai]

I wonder if SE and ICE did hammer out all the actual details of the pantheon back when they invented the world.. is it all clear to them, so that they can easily play out all these cards and hints and it'll all make sense in the end? (or, if they don't intend to publish the hidden reality, make sense to their own background material). It appears to me that there seems to be some internal consistency problems here and there, so if there _is_ a hidden, well-thought out real truth behind it all we must assume some of the characters to be lying or self-delusional.

Or, of course, SE and ICE may not actually have had it all detailed from the beginning either..

[warbob]

I bet SE and ICE are going to leave us not knowing the truth in the end simply because by ideas the malazan books are so close to reality - we barely know anything of the creation of our world and the living organisms so why must they state how life was born in the books?

PS: OE is old for sure - have you met a young dragon(except onos's son) before?They are all old, rare and powerful which means OE is for sure powerful.Same for the 2 undead birdies or something - they practicly speak nonsence all the time looking like someone has removed their brains from the head but actually - remember the alliance needed to stop them from taking that throne .There is noone purely crazy in these books - they are like Hamlet - just pretending, waiting for the final blow.Btw let's give you one more tought to think about shall we ?It is stated that it was once full darkness then the light was born and so was everything else and bla bla - why doesn't OE mention mother darkness if simvol of motherhood? a) because she really answears the titles stated above b ) because she is crazy (not very likely by my opinion) c) she does answear those titles but doesn't mention mother darkness because SE and ICE don't want us to realize burn and stuff is actually the same as mother darkness d) She is the simvol of motherhood by being mother darkness e) my brain is gonna explode if i start thinking more >_>.

This post has been edited by warbob: 01 December 2010 - 09:03 PM

[worry]

I dunno if that's true. We know plenty about the formation of our world and about how life developed form non-living matter in the primordial soup. Our lack of an existing deity makes it a lot simpler than the world of Wu, where mythology is rooted somewhere in truth and actual beings.

[warbob]

We have a) created by god (but there shouldn't be any dino focills then) and b ) non-living matter turned into living matter (which noone can prove to be possible) so we actually have 2 theories and both can not be proved.

[worry]

The former isn't a theory, it's a hypothesis supported by no evidence at all whatsoever, and cannot be scientifically tested regardless. The latter has been tested, and scientists have actually created life from non-living matter in the lab. I'm not having a debate about our world though, I am talking about how the Malazan world is different from ours, in that their gods exist and interact with the world(s) and its people(s)...it's not hypothetical in the least. That said, I agree with you that SE and ICE are going to leave plenty of the mystery untouched...the amount of reconciliation they've managed between the actual and the mythological is already magnitudes greater than most authors.