[Silencer]

Regards the potential that Quick's an Elder God/other uber-power - I too dislike the idea, just because he is awesome as is. But there is always some other aspect to him, as has been said throughout the series - he's got mysteries left, that's for sure.

The man just knows so much. Whether that's the ability to read 12 books at once or something, I don't know, but hell, Ahkrast Korvalain, the workings of K'chain Che'Malle, Nah'Ruk, EVERYTHING. The man is such a treasure trove it's ridiculous. That's half of what makes him awesome, imo.

Also, the other thing I found:

The Shi'Gal's wingspan is equivalent to that of a middle-aged Eleint. This should give us a good size reference for dragons if someone can look up the original wingspan he's mentioned as having. Just out of curiousity.

[L'oric]

Silencer, on 04 February 2010 - 02:44 AM, said:

Now, the other thing I've noticed is the emphasis in this book on the fact that Eleint cannot work together, their chaotic blood drives them apart. Clearly, Rake and Silanah are exceptions to this rule, however:
The Tiste Andii Night Hunters.
Korlat and Orfantal in particular.
There were 5 soletaken Andii who dwelt within Moon's Spawn. They worked together, they worked under Rake, and in close proximity to Silanah. GotMism? Retcon? Just as recently as TTH have Korlat and Orfantal been shown to be working together. Hell, even Rake and Silchas were driven apart by the blood. The only exceptions mentioned are Telorast and Curdle, and that's implied to be true due to them being 'twins' of a sort.

Anyway, that's it for now. But damn this re-read was fun. ^^

Most of those recollections about Dragons not being able to work together are from Elder World people who have no seen or heard of moon spawn or anything else. Isnt it possible that some dragons have also evolved? Just like the Jaghut are also now working together.

Quick Ben has grown in the series through several leaps. From the start where he hid himself but was still the most skilled wizard A high Mage had ever seen (least thats what I think Tattersail sails) through the little puppet on his shoulder and the fooling of the Edur and the battle with Icarium and his ties with him go to childhood....then the dragon sisters and silchas. I think the fact that we have no idea how his soul shifting works is the problem.

sincerely,

[Illuyankas]

There's a common factor for your dragons working singly examples - Rake. Besides, the five Andii Soletaken are all fairly small dragons, so they probably don't have much Elient blood in them.

Speaking of rereads, did you know Hellian is only about 20 or so in TBH? She's 19 in the prologue, set twenty days after the end of HOC. She definitely acts like everyone I know in their early twenties. Of course, my favourite reread reveal is that Kallor copped a feel off the creator of the universe.

[Aptorian]

Illuyankas, on 05 February 2010 - 04:21 AM, said:

Of course, my favourite reread reveal is that Kallor copped a feel off the creator of the universe.

Yeah, I remember thinking to myself. Dude, that Andii managed to slap Kallor out of a horsecart? That's quite a backhand.

[Varen]

I actually quite like the idea of one of QB's souls being a jaghut soletaken elient. The fact that one is mentioned makes me think that there is a good chance we have already met it somewhere in the series, well either that or its a red herring thrown in to invite speculation on the boards.

A point to consider on why Quick has never shown off his possible Elder God powers is that the situation was not dire enough. And so far that seems to proven true, in terms of his own survival, although we can't be sure since DoD. Who is to say that Quick has complete control over the souls he carries? Why, for example would a Jaghut care about the fate of the BB's? What we have to remember is that while they inhabit his body, they don't necessarily share all of his views.

The other thing is that QB wouldn't have wanted to bring that attention to himself. He and Kalam had been plotting to save the world for a long time it seems, and if he used too much power too early it would inevitably lead to a convergance in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Tapper]

Aptorian, on 04 February 2010 - 09:03 AM, said:

I would strongly dislike it if it was revealed that Quick Ben was a character of a much higher magnitude of power than what we have been led to suspect.

Quick as a mortal mage who is powered by the 12 souls of various scholars and mages is a mysterious and cool character, but to find out that he was really an elder god or Jaghut of tyrant level potential would be stupid.

That would mean that in all the time he's been with the Bridgeburners, all the times they've fought and people have died in droves, Quick Ben could have saved their asses. I don't care if he has to lay low, it would just seem like a betrayal of the army that was his home.

It's like when it is suddenly revealed in BH that Quick can actually heal people. That didn't make any sense either. Are you going to tell me that in the 15 years or so he's fought with the BBs and the BH that nobody in his squad has been wounded critically? Or if they were, he just chose to not save them because he didn't want people to know he was a Elder God with Denul warrens up the ass.

Unless QB has been in it all this time for himself, and simply did not judge it to be prudent.
There have been a great many references to him and Kalam being entirely unpredictable in their stance and allegiance in this conflict. It seems Kalam didn't trust him fully either - relied on him, yes, but trust, possibly not.

Or maybe he did not want to draw attention to himself - he has ten warrens, but almost everyone in the first books only thinks of him as a trickster, a mildly talented squad mage with a sharp mind - except those very first Bridgeburners who chased him through Raraku. I also think that many of those old guard bridgeburners were happy to keep him a secret - Kalam, Hedge, Fiddler, Whiskeyjack and possibly Mallet for certain - as their shaved knuckle. After all, paranoia was high and for a born intrigant like QB, that would be perfect to hide amongst.

I doubt however that Farl is one of his souls. If only because QB was incapable of summoning an elder warren on the fleet. Instead, he had to rely on an illusion (and made it with plenty of showmanship... I mean, floating?).
Finally, when the Eres'al did make it real, he was almost overcome by the power and didn't show much familiarity with it.

[Illuyankas]

He was fine using KG in Coral.

[Tapper]

Illuyankas, on 05 February 2010 - 04:28 PM, said:

He was fine using KG in Coral.

Good point...

[Bauchelain the Evil]

But that was during a complete unveiling of KG. I'm sure a skilled mage could exploit that

[Ulrik]

Wasnt unveiling AFTER his KG tricks?

[MTS]

I'm pretty sure it was, Ulrik.

Re-reads are glorious. Started a series re-read a week and a bit ago (about to finish DG), but came across this in GotM.

Quote

Quick Ben asked, 'This is the Spar of Andii, isn't it?'
Hairlock's round head bobbed. 'Half-way. Now you know how far I have gone, wizard. To the very foot of the Warren, where power finds its first shape, and all is possible.'
'Just not very likely,' Quick Ben said, eyeing the marionette. 'How does it feel, standing in the middle of all that creation but unable to touch it, to use it? It's too alien, isn't it? It burns you with every reach.'
'I'll master it,' Hairlock hissed. 'You know nothing. Nothing.'
Quick Ben smiled. 'I've been here before, Hairlock.'

If this is really foreshadowing...my God.

[Leo]

Indeed, rereads are glorious. I haven't read anything but the first post yet, but I don't think QB is a human d'ivers. In GotM, he emerges from his warren into Tattersail's tent smelling of spice. This would imply he had sembled, aye? The only reason I see for this is to travel swiftly. If that's true, his soletaken/d'ivers form should be fast.

Edit: Alright. I read it all and don't really have anything else to add.

This post has been edited by Leo: 16 February 2010 - 04:52 PM

[Silencer]

I think the difference here is scale (talking about the KG/Edur fleet encounters).

One, he's also been named 'Magi of Dark' by Fiddler's reading as at DoD. So that's a serious link with House Dark.

But, more importantly, the illusion he conjured in BH was enough to rival, counter, and even be larger than the ritual created by 'almost a hundred Edur warlocks'. In comparison to going from the bottom of a tower to the top of a tower/opening a small gate....that would be a major difference in power levels.

Not to mention that, in order to craft his illusion, he'd need to drop a lot of defences - see Bottle's trying to help out, then the Eres'al, which is a force powerful enough to, apparently, time travel, comes in through Bottle? That alone would be enough to knock anyone around, I think.

Now, not to get all overexcited here or anything, but also don't forget that he was using the illusion...because a true unveiling of two Elder Warrens like that would have likely destroyed all the ships on both sides regardless. So he had to make them back down, rather than actually wanting to beat them. Not to say that he *can* use an Elder Warren (though the man certainly has knowledge enough of them), but even if he could he wouldn't have in that situation.

[lobo the wolfman]

About Quick Ben, wasn't the magic he used on Hairlock in GOTM (soul-sifting) described as a 'lost' Tiste Andii art?. If so then that's another link with Dark.

[Blend]

K... New crazy theory... One of Quick Ben's souls is actually Tiam, who has actually been around for like forever. Quick Ben DID die when the Nah'ruk's and him faced off, but it's because he knows he has Tiam's soul in him and will be resurrected because of it. That would explain how he knows all this very interesting stuff about the Andii, who 'drank of Tiam's blood' one too many times. *nods* There you have it. You heard it here first.

[Tattersail_]

Aptorian, on 04 February 2010 - 09:03 AM, said:

I would strongly dislike it if it was revealed that Quick Ben was a character of a much higher magnitude of power than what we have been led to suspect.

Quick as a mortal mage who is powered by the 12 souls of various scholars and mages is a mysterious and cool character, but to find out that he was really an elder god or Jaghut of tyrant level potential would be stupid.

That would mean that in all the time he's been with the Bridgeburners, all the times they've fought and people have died in droves, Quick Ben could have saved their asses. I don't care if he has to lay low, it would just seem like a betrayal of the army that was his home.

It's like when it is suddenly revealed in BH that Quick can actually heal people. That didn't make any sense either. Are you going to tell me that in the 15 years or so he's fought with the BBs and the BH that nobody in his squad has been wounded critically? Or if they were, he just chose to not save them because he didn't want people to know he was a Elder God with Denul warrens up the ass.

like nightchill in silverfox, she didn't show herself straight away did she? we know QB was a human, we assume he has a TA soul inside him, but like has been speculated he could have an extra powerful soul that has recently became awakened?

[Quick Bill]

MTS, on 15 February 2010 - 11:27 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure it was, Ulrik.

Re-reads are glorious. Started a series re-read a week and a bit ago (about to finish DG), but came across this in GotM.

Quote

Quick Ben asked, 'This is the Spar of Andii, isn't it?'
Hairlock's round head bobbed. 'Half-way. Now you know how far I have gone, wizard. To the very foot of the Warren, where power finds its first shape, and all is possible.'
'Just not very likely,' Quick Ben said, eyeing the marionette. 'How does it feel, standing in the middle of all that creation but unable to touch it, to use it? It's too alien, isn't it? It burns you with every reach.'
'I'll master it,' Hairlock hissed. 'You know nothing. Nothing.'
Quick Ben smiled. 'I've been here before, Hairlock.'

If this is really foreshadowing...my God.

I found the following quote in MoI. Just as the Bridgeburners are heading into Coral. Quick Ben uses Kurald Galain, which would further imply a connection to the Tiste Andii. I do think Quick Ben is Soletaken myself. I cannot remember the passage but I remember reading a part in one of the later books and coming to that tentative conclusion.

'Yes. Open your warren.' He glanced over at Antsy. The sergeant, Detoran, Trotts
and Mallet had dropped the visors on their helms. Weapons were out. Spindle
crouched nearby, a sharper clutched in his. right hand. 'Hold it, Quick—did you tell
Spin what—'
'Aye, sir, and he's working on it just fine.'
Spindle managed a weak grin.
'All right. Let's go.'
The portal flashed open, bled darkness into the street. Paran's eyes widened. Kurald
Galain. What—
'Follow me!' Quick Ben hissed, darting into the warren.

[Quick Bill]

On another note, I don't think QB is dead. I think that at the last moment Shadowthrone snatched him away.

[anothevilbadguy]

There is also the scene where Quick clearly does not want to be examined by Rake, and you would think a being would have to be pretty powerful to be able to be closed to Rake at all.

My personal pet theory is that he is, or has the soul of, Blind Gallan. All the mentions of him in DOD (and briefly in TTH), make me think he will have a part to play, and from a number of comments it does seem that he is likely to still be living. Also, it is mentioned he was the head of a group of mages (he had some nice sounding title, which I cannot remember) in Kharkanas, so clearly powerful. And it is mentioned he is sneaky. So, it fits with Quick.

Anyway, there does need to be reveal about Quick of at least some importance, as from the start it is clear he is hiding something, and most likely an identity. And Gallan fits, being a significant enough character (with similar characteristics and is TA), without being a super powerful God/Tyrant.

[ansible]

Interesting quote from tBH here. Kalam's just called on Quick with an acorn, and Shadowthrone puts Quick in Icarium's path at the First Throne instead. Just as he tries to leave by warren to help Kalam:

The Bonehunters, Bantam MMPB, p.1139 said:

--and, even as he vanished he heard a soft giggle, then a sibilant voice: 'You said you owed me, remember? Well, my dear Snake, it's time.'

The capital on "Snake" is what caught my eye. Do we know of any reason Shadowthrone would refer to QB this way, unless perhaps it is a reference to his Soletaken form? Wouldn't be the first time ST has hinted at possible shape-shifting for Quick.