[champ]

btw wouldnt this thread be better in the DoD forum?

[Slich]

I am busy reading DoD, but previously finished Return of the Crimson Guard... Theres a statue in the otataral mine thats "alive" so to speak...

PS. I'm new to this site and dont know whether this should be a spoiler and how to set it......???

[champ]

Slich, on 20 April 2010 - 10:11 AM, said:

I am busy reading DoD, but previously finished Return of the Crimson Guard... Theres a statue in the otataral mine thats "alive" so to speak...

PS. I'm new to this site and dont know whether this should be a spoiler and how to set it......???

to cover a sentance for spoiler you do [ spoiler ] *insert sentence*[ /spoiler ] no spaces

and with this been a general book forum i would hide most revelations as spoilers just so any unsuspecting victim doesnt stumble across

This post has been edited by champooon: 20 April 2010 - 12:00 PM

[worry]

My theory is that the Jade Giants are actually statues of liberty from various alternate earths where human relationships with God (ie the CG) all vary, and the finale of The Crippled God will be something like a mega-version of Planet of the Apes.


Wouldn't that just be the worst?

[Knight of the Night]

Now with head filled with RG it sound strange that crippled god will save the world... With all the things he has done. Remember the tenescowri for example...

[HiddenOne]

I like this theory by champooon.

[Silk]

but didnt it say somewhere... can't remember where but its bugging me ... that in his own realm the CG was not a malign force but possibly one of love? Or something to that effect and its related to his new followers that are making him the CG as opposed to something else as the followers drive the gods or so to speak. Perhaps the statues and the enemy are in fact on a multiverse mission to destroy all gods... kind of like the DC vs Marvel comics ;o)

[Aptorian]

The Crippled God at one point, I believe it is in BH, states that he was once a different kind of god. With a different aspect.

Combine that with the fact that demon statues with large stone erections came tumbling down with the Crippled God when he fell.

That has lead to the theory that his aspect was once something quite the opposite.

But there is not proof that he really was a love god or anything remotely similar to such an aspect. How ever you have to wonder why the Malazan world doesn't have any God of Love. Well, besides Tehol of course.

[ShadowRaven]

As someone suggested, I do believe the Crippled God is at least partially the reason they are falling to Wu, but there are a couple of things I've been wondering about:

1. The otataral connection.

2. Why so many of them fall on northern 7Cs/Otataral Island. We've seen at least two grounded there already (one in DG, the second in RotCG), and didn't the one we see impact also drop somewhere around there? Could be just luck but I don't feel that is the case.


And, getting back to the main topic, here's my most recent crazy theory: The Crippled God appeared to be "flesh and blood" when he fell, but the thing coming after him is statues stuffed with souls. We've seen that tCG is very, very powerful, even in pieces. Maybe the jade statues are the objects of his worship from his homeworld? Maybe the inhabitants of that world sacrificed living people to statues depicting their god, tCG, and that's what made him powerful (akin to K'rul when he still received a lot of blood sacrifices). This would also make sense because for the impact to cause the damage it did, the Crippled God's original form would most likely have had to be at least the size of those statues. Then when he was pulled from his homeworld by the ritual, the statues of his aspect, filled with the source of his power, were also pulled in behind him.

[ThinkingMalaz]

Hmmm I'm quite new here, but I have 5 re-reads under my belt so here's my crazy theory on the matter...

tCG on wu is a pretty nasty being, but that seems to be largely the consequence of him being in eternal pain. He alludes that he was once a very different god. Also I seem to remember that at some point (quote fu someone) there is expressed the tentative idea that he is in fact an Elder God, and that Elder Gods are not restricted to one world. Now imagine there are worlds out there that used to be in the sphere of influence of tCG. When souls die they either pass through hoods gates or are called to their own Gods. Now imagine that despite the fact that he has been gone from his own realm for a LONG time the souls of those in his realms still travel to him, whether they want to or not. This would explain the fact that there seems to be no single uniting faith amongst the souls when Heboric visits them in his (heck there are even souls that don't believe in Gods anymore, since the tCg has not been able to guide his followers they have since have had to make their own dogma and theology (hence the bewildering variety of them). The fact that Heboric has an epiphany where he realises he is the Shield Anvil of the lost souls seems to point to a God, and the fact that he cannot release the pain they bring him seems to indicate to me that this God is not able to help Heboric, which fits the bill for tCG again, as he is not able to influence events directly on wu

Now why the souls don't actually reach tCG is a tough question, but I have a theory. A God on wu gains power from being worshipped. Now imagine tCG actually getting the power of all that belief. It would make him VERY powerful and likely insane too (considering none of the souls in the JG's all have very different religious ideas or lack thereof, and WHAT worshippers believe influences their God, see D'rek killing of her whole priesthood cause they had betrayed her with their beliefs). Whether the power of the JG's itsself causes the creation of ottaral or extensive use of magic by wu's Gods creates the ottaral I honestly have no idea yet.

This post has been edited by ThinkingMalaz: 08 February 2011 - 02:31 PM

[ShadowRaven]

ThinkingMalaz, on 08 February 2011 - 11:31 AM, said:

Hmmm I'm quite new here, but I have 5 re-reads under my belly so here's my crazy theory n the matter...

tCG on wu is a pretty nasty being, but that seems to be largely the consequence of him being in eternal pain. He alludes that he was once a very different god. Also I seem to remember that at some point (quote fu someone) there is expressed the tentative idea that he is in fact an Elder God, and that Elder Gods are not restricted to one world. Now imagine there are worlds out there that used to be in the sphere of influence of tCG. When souls die they either pass through hoods gates or are called to their own Gods. Now imagine that despite the fact that he has been gone from his own realm for a LONG time the souls of those in his realms still travel to him, whether they want to or not. This would explain the fact that there seems to be no single uniting faith amongst the souls when Heboric visits them in his (heck there are even souls that don't believe in Gods anymore, since the tCg has not been able to guide his followers they have since have had to make their own dogma and theology (hence the bewildering variety of them). The fact that Heboric has an epiphany where he realises he is the Shield Anvil of the lost souls seems to point to a God, and the fact that he cannot release the pain they bring him seems to indicate to me that this God is not able to help Heboric, which fits the bill for tCG again, as he is not able to influence events directly on wu

Now why the souls don't actually reach tCG is a tough question, but I have a theory. A God on wu gains power from being worshipped. Now imagine tCG actually getting the power of all that belief. It would make him VERY powerful and likely insane too (considering none of the souls in the JG's all have very different religious ideas or lack thereof, and WHAT worshippers believe influences their God, see D'rek killing of her whole priesthood cause they had betrayed her with their beliefs). Whether the power of the JG's itsself causes the creation of ottaral or extensive use of magic by wu's Gods creates the ottaral I honestly have no idea yet.

An interesting theory, and I just realized that them being his (dead) "worshipers" could make perfect sense considering he is known as Deathslayer in the Deck, i.e. the souls of his worshippers travel to him, or images of him that are the jade statues which then follow the god himself, unable to gain the release that is death. It would also explain why some of them do not even believe in gods anymore but are still there and constitute as followers: just think about Hood's comments in (I think it was) TtH about all death being his worship no matter what the beliefs of the deceased.

[Silk]

so perhaps he was the original Hood then ;o)

[ThinkingMalaz]

ShadowRaven, on 08 February 2011 - 11:58 AM, said:

ThinkingMalaz, on 08 February 2011 - 11:31 AM, said:

Hmmm I'm quite new here, but I have 5 re-reads under my belly so here's my crazy theory n the matter...

tCG on wu is a pretty nasty being, but that seems to be largely the consequence of him being in eternal pain. He alludes that he was once a very different god. Also I seem to remember that at some point (quote fu someone) there is expressed the tentative idea that he is in fact an Elder God, and that Elder Gods are not restricted to one world. Now imagine there are worlds out there that used to be in the sphere of influence of tCG. When souls die they either pass through hoods gates or are called to their own Gods. Now imagine that despite the fact that he has been gone from his own realm for a LONG time the souls of those in his realms still travel to him, whether they want to or not. This would explain the fact that there seems to be no single uniting faith amongst the souls when Heboric visits them in his (heck there are even souls that don't believe in Gods anymore, since the tCg has not been able to guide his followers they have since have had to make their own dogma and theology (hence the bewildering variety of them). The fact that Heboric has an epiphany where he realises he is the Shield Anvil of the lost souls seems to point to a God, and the fact that he cannot release the pain they bring him seems to indicate to me that this God is not able to help Heboric, which fits the bill for tCG again, as he is not able to influence events directly on wu

Now why the souls don't actually reach tCG is a tough question, but I have a theory. A God on wu gains power from being worshipped. Now imagine tCG actually getting the power of all that belief. It would make him VERY powerful and likely insane too (considering all of the souls in the JG's all have very different religious ideas or lack thereof, and WHAT worshippers believe influences their God, see D'rek killing of her whole priesthood cause they had betrayed her with their beliefs). Whether the power of the JG's itsself causes the creation of ottaral or extensive use of magic by wu's Gods creates the ottaral I honestly have no idea yet.

An interesting theory, and I just realized that them being his (dead) "worshipers" could make perfect sense considering he is known as Deathslayer in the Deck, i.e. the souls of his worshippers travel to him, or images of him that are the jade statues which then follow the god himself, unable to gain the release that is death. It would also explain why some of them do not even believe in gods anymore but are still there and constitute as followers: just think about Hood's comments in (I think it was) TtH about all death being his worship no matter what the beliefs of the deceased.

Oooh I didn't even make that connection with what Hood said nor the Deathslayer link. It would still beg the question how the JG's cmae into existence... Are they independent constructs or is it the amalgamation of sufficient sould that brings them into being....

*thinkingMalaz's brain is pleasantly stimulated by this new input*

[ThinkingMalaz]

Silk, on 08 February 2011 - 12:04 PM, said:

so perhaps he was the original Hood then ;o)

I'd say he'd be more like the Hood of a different Realm...

[ShadowRaven]

ThinkingMalaz, on 08 February 2011 - 02:27 PM, said:

Oooh I didn't even make that connection with what Hood said nor the Deathslayer link. It would still beg the question how the JG's cmae into existence... Are they independent constructs or is it the amalgamation of sufficient sould that brings them into being....

*thinkingMalaz's brain is pleasantly stimulated by this new input*

Well, in HoC Heboric considers them to be constructs and states they aren't alive so I've always assumed they are just statues carved in the Crippled God's homeworld - probably with magic or advanced tech as they are described to be extremely fine in detail. Also, I don't think it is the souls themselves that create them since we've seen the landed ones, and they appear to house no souls.

[Silk]

ThinkingMalaz, on 08 February 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

Silk, on 08 February 2011 - 12:04 PM, said:

so perhaps he was the original Hood then ;o)

I'd say he'd be more like the Hood of a different Realm...

I refer to the one that Hood and the Jaghuts fought against... the original death... had to have been one

[Blueiron]

Silk, on 08 February 2011 - 03:33 PM, said:

ThinkingMalaz, on 08 February 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

Silk, on 08 February 2011 - 12:04 PM, said:

so perhaps he was the original Hood then ;o)

I'd say he'd be more like the Hood of a different Realm...

I refer to the one that Hood and the Jaghuts fought against... the original death... had to have been one

Hmmm... interesting point. But then that would have to mean that the tCG's influence once existed on Wu... yet heis "birthplace (as evidenced by the demon quote) is far, far away, and he is so often described as "alien' that this seems slightly unlikely...

[ShadowRaven]

Blueiron, on 08 February 2011 - 05:20 PM, said:

Hmmm... interesting point. But then that would have to mean that the tCG's influence once existed on Wu... yet heis "birthplace (as evidenced by the demon quote) is far, far away, and he is so often described as "alien' that this seems slightly unlikely...

But didn't the Jaghut/someone create Hood's Realm/the Jaghut bridge of death? I remember it being stated somewhere in the series (MT or TtH perhaps) that, as in Lether, there wasn't always an afterlife/realm of death accessible to Wu. Maybe the war on death took place in the Crippled God's home realm and Hood just took it over and brought it over/made it accessible to Wu. Doesn't explain why other Jaghut haven't mentioned it though. That could make him the original god life and/or death in his home realm, but still make him "alien" in nature.

P.S. I just realized how crazy that sounds...

[Silk]

well this is a place for crazy theories ;o)

In one of the books I think Bugg mentions that there should be a hold of Death but there isn't and Hood is unknown to them ......... by them I refer to the general population and not those that are in the know as there is no Death tile in the tiles (might be mistaken)

This post has been edited by Silk: 08 February 2011 - 07:43 PM

[ThinkingMalaz]

Silk, on 08 February 2011 - 07:41 PM, said:

well this is a place for crazy theories ;o)

In one of the books I think Bugg mentions that there should be a hold of Death but there isn't and Hood is unknown to them ......... by them I refer to the general population and not those that are in the know as there is no Death tile in the tiles (might be mistaken)

I had the impression that was because of Gothos ritual sealing the remnants of the Tiste/KCM battlefield, not because of anything tCG did.