[Abyss]

I'm blanking on where i'm semi-remembering this from, ...maybe MT, maybe a throwaway line from Trull in HoC... but i thought that Rake led the first wave, that was mostly wiped out by the Edur, then Silch led the second wave that ends more or less in the MT prologue except for the Bluerose survivors, then Rake leads ANOTHER wave... the quote i'm semi not really remembering runs along the lines that the Edur thought the second Andii wave would seek revenge but in the end they didn't.

After all, Silch's survivors end up in Bluerose and Rake's Andii end up split, at a minimum, between Moonspawn and Drift Avalii. Plus the Edur end up all over the place, Leth and the degenerated ones the Edur find on Sepik in TB/RG. Plus the Shake, who seem to be linked to all three Tiste races, tho we don'ty know how that happened.

Point to keep in mind - out of virtually nowhere in DoD, we got a second Tlan Imass Ritual we didn't know about before. Just because it isn't mentioned doesn't mean it didn't happen.

The Tiste Andii timeline IS confusing... i figure it's because Tiste years are like cat years. Plus time flows differently in a warren, so Endest could have been working with Rake for 300k years by his reckoning but that may not translate to the same time in the (at least) two worlds.

Spin and Korlat are more problemtic but easy enough to reason out... they were clearly drunk the whole time. Or when you're immortal the concept of a 'year' just becomes meaningless.

Back to original point tho', if there were multiple waves of Andii, Rake could have brought one wave over, returned to KG and come back with another, even MUCH later, which might account for the time shift between Endest and Spin.

- Abyss, falls back on the 'they were drunk' explanation, and anyways the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timelines is NOT...

[MTS]

Damn, Abyss beat me to it. I was looking up the quote, for I remembered others fleeing in the civil war. Endest remembers it in TTH.

Toll The Hounds page 69 (hehe) said:

‘Like you, Mother, I have chosen to embrace change. Yes, there are others now. I sense them.
There will be wars between us, and so I shall unite the Andii. Resistance is ending. Andarist, Drethdenan,
Vanut Degalla. Silchas is fleeing, and so too Hish Tulla and Manalle. Civil strife is now over, Mother.’

Who says Spinnock had to have been with Anomander or Silchas? Endest might have been the last to stand with Rake in Kharkanas, but if Spinnock was not with Silchas, then he could have been amongst Hish Tulla or Manalle's crew, who left before Endest, and they could have reunited with Rake's Andii at a later time, so there's no contradiction that I can see. The only problem being what happened to those two. Maybe they died, maybe they're still alive somewhere, or withered away like Andarist, who knows.

Oh, and Spinnock is the third generation of his family, whose heirloom was forged in Kharkanas. Make of that what you will.

Toll The Hounds page 70 said:

The sword, an arm’s length of copper-hued iron, had been forged in Darkness, in Kharkanas itself.
Sole heirloom of House Durav, the weapon had known three wielders since the day of quenching at the
Hust Forge, but of those kin who held the weapon before Spinnock Durav, nothing remained.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

blackzoid, on 13 January 2010 - 09:27 AM, said:

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 12 January 2010 - 11:21 PM, said:

Bauchelain the Evil, on 12 January 2010 - 06:59 PM, said:

Yeah, well, Twilights Andii blood is quite diluted and it is implied that apart from her and the Watch no one has Andii blood in their veins. Of course it would be problematic.
Spinnock, on the other hand, is a normal Andii and as suvh wouldn't have had any problem. Or so I think

Well then Silchas is a much older and more powerful Andii, and shouldn't have needed help opening a portal to KG...but he did.

Silchas is no longer a pure Andii however. He drank much more of Tiam's blood than did Rake.

I don't buy that at all. I know he is draconic now, and there is that line about him drinking deeper than Rake, but I don't think adding Tiam's blood makes them less able to use KG and make portals to it. The key thing to opening portals to those elder realms is blood. In HoC when Onrack, the T'lan Imass, Trull, and those 4 Liosan are stuck in the Nascent t hey plan a trip out to Kurald Thyrllan or whatever and they need to use Trull's blood for that. then in DoD apparently the FA are opening a portal to or from AK and Quick says they just need blood to do that, a lot of blood.

[Urizen]

Mappo, on 13 January 2010 - 04:28 PM, said:

Damn, Abyss beat me to it. I was looking up the quote, for I remembered others fleeing in the civil war. Endest remembers it in TTH.

Toll The Hounds page 69 (hehe) said:

‘Like you, Mother, I have chosen to embrace change. Yes, there are others now. I sense them.
There will be wars between us, and so I shall unite the Andii. Resistance is ending. Andarist, Drethdenan,
Vanut Degalla. Silchas is fleeing, and so too Hish Tulla and Manalle. Civil strife is now over, Mother.’

Who says Spinnock had to have been with Anomander or Silchas? Endest might have been the last to stand with Rake in Kharkanas, but if Spinnock was not with Silchas, then he could have been amongst Hish Tulla or Manalle's crew, who left before Endest, and they could have reunited with Rake's Andii at a later time, so there's no contradiction that I can see. The only problem being what happened to those two. Maybe they died, maybe they're still alive somewhere, or withered away like Andarist, who knows.

Oh, and Spinnock is the third generation of his family, whose heirloom was forged in Kharkanas. Make of that what you will.

Toll The Hounds page 70 said:

The sword, an arm’s length of copper-hued iron, had been forged in Darkness, in Kharkanas itself.
Sole heirloom of House Durav, the weapon had known three wielders since the day of quenching at the
Hust Forge, but of those kin who held the weapon before Spinnock Durav, nothing remained.

I wonder what Spinnock relationship is with Sandalth(Sp?). Korlat calls him brother at the end of TTH, yet Sandalath only thinks of Korlat and Orfantal in her memories/flashback, nor does she think about multiple husbands.

[Abyss]

Urizen, on 13 January 2010 - 10:09 PM, said:

...I wonder what Spinnock relationship is with Sandalth(Sp?). Korlat calls him brother at the end of TTH, yet Sandalath only thinks of Korlat and Orfantal in her memories/flashback, nor does she think about multiple husbands.

I took that as a 'bond between Andii' thing.

- Abyss, ...had a giggle when he misspelled 'bond' just now...