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Ah well, again, sorry if I came off sound very rude and ignorant about Robert Jordan.
Nah, you weren't. No worries.
I tend to overreact anyway. Plus, I love a good debate, so I jump in just for the sheer fun of arguing a lot of the time. Don't take it personally. In fact, if you come back at me with a well-reasoned argument, you'll probably make my day. Nothing makes me happier than having a good argument turning in my head all day.
That said, I'm certainly not going to argue that Jordan doesn't have flaws. He certainly does. Some of them bug me like crazy. I just don't happen to believe that he has any more than any other author out there writing today.
If it ain't for you, it ain't for you. Nothing wrong with that.
@Fool
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Jordan's battles didnt strike me as anything special (neither in the way he describes them nor in terms of tactics used). Certainly nowhere near as good as erikson, kearney, cook, gentle or parker. Remind me, what exactly is so great about mat's plans?
Eriksons's battles are better. No question.
Only read a little bit of Cook's stuff, and I have no idea who Kearney, Gentle, or Parker are.
Things I like about Jordan's battles:
Scale - He uses a realistic scale. None of this silly, Dragonlance tendency to call a hundred knights an army. He actually uses realistic numbers of troops. Good for him.
Specific Troop Details - He specifies different types of troops... light infantry, heavy infantry, light cav, heavy cav. And he makes sure they're employed with the correct tactics for each troop type.
Balance - He strikes a nice balance between swords and sorcery. Magic users are influential in battle, but not overwhelming. Sometimes Erikson slips a little bit away from this balance, but the characters are so damn cool I don't care.
Strategy and Tactics - They exist, are discussed, employed, and have realistic results. Wow. Lan talks about how heavy cavalry fight flexible light infantry. Mat discusses how to break a siege without pushing the enemy over the walls, while still keeping enough in reserve to deal with another threat. Ten years ago, very few authors even considered the concept of reserves.
Ultimately, what's great about Jordan's battles is that he shows them... and they make sense. One of my major gripes with Martin is that he tirelessly struggles to avoid showing a battle in full scope, and I sometimes wonder if it's because he knows what he wants the result to be, but doesn't really know how to get there.
"Quick, have the POV character pass out, and when he wakes up we'll just tell him who won!"
@NastyMan
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Rand,Mat,Perrin,Lan,Bashere and most others are all the same
Really? I don't see that at all. Very, very different people. Sure they all have a certain sense of honor... but even that varies in amount among them.
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Try the Thomas Covenant series.
Oh, I've read them. Some very cool concepts surrounded by a whole bunch of stuff that made me want to beat my head against the wall. Good writing though. But I'm not sure what you're saying. The whole series is "goodies vs. baddies". The only person who can't be classified as one or the other is Covenant himself, and if you really put me to it, I'd say he's a goodie but a complete wank.
And you're calling Jordan's work "only skin deep"? The entire Covenant series is based on the idea that you can't really tell if it's a dream or not. I got a strong feeling of going from point to point on the map, with nothing in between.
I know a lot of people love the Covenant books. Personally, I thought they were interesting, but I couldn't relate to the characters. Most of the people I remember were either stupid or just stubbornly selfish and petty. Stereotypes... and archetypes... are popular because people can relate to them, or admire them. The only character I unabashedly admired in the Land was Foamfollower. Well, in the second chronicles, the ur-Vile who never talks is pretty cool too. What was his name?
At any rate, the Chronicles of the Unbeliever was a perfect example, in my opinion, of the idea of non-archetypical characters carried too far. Sure, they were different, but I couldn't bring myself to care. They weren't real to me.
@LooseCannon
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What is your complaint, that all the main characters in the book have some form of honor, rather than going around raping, murdering and stealing things?
LOL
Well said.
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