[Maark Abbott]

Alternative Goose, on 05 October 2018 - 09:11 AM, said:

I think platforming in first person games were solved early this decade. They made catching an edge more forgiving or added an animation that allowed the character to save itself.

Games like Far Cry, Dying Light, Titan Fall, Destiny, etc. all do platforming just fine. Hell there are various indie studios that have made whole games around the concept. It's typically not balls hard masocore die over and over again platforming, like I want to be that guy or Meatboy but it works for your average AAA game now.

I've never been interested in any of those games (I played the demo of Titanstroll 2 and it was slow as hell, so most definitely a nope). Either way, keep mandatory platforming sections out of FPS pls.

Serenity, on 05 October 2018 - 09:19 AM, said:

Metroid Prime solved first person platforming about 15 years ago.

Metroid Prime is the sole exception to FP platforming, but even that isn't consistently good (see: the wrecked frigate). It's also at its best when it takes that element out, i.e. Quadraxis, Metroid Prime itself.

Khellendros, on 05 October 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

Mirror's Edge first person platforming was incredible.

I had it free with Gold and never made it past the tutorial. Felt super sluggish and wasn't prepared to sit through a full game of sludge controls.

[Serenity]

Some people are never happy

[Khellendros]

If you didn't actually play the game for more than 5 minutes then your opinion on it is somewhat less credible I have never seen you play a game, but from my experience I put it to you that the controls were not sluggish - rather, it was your own response times and hand-eye coordination

(Yes, I really enjoyed Mirror's Edge, it was very different to other games which were coming out at the same time. Mirror's Edge Catalyst on the other hand I found a bit underwhelming, which was disappointing. Not a bad game, but I had hoped it would be incredible).

This post has been edited by Khellendros: 08 October 2018 - 08:18 AM

[Maark Abbott]

Khellendros, on 08 October 2018 - 08:17 AM, said:

If you didn't actually play the game for more than 5 minutes then your opinion on it is somewhat less credible I have never seen you play a game, but from my experience I put it to you that the controls were not sluggish - rather, it was your own response times and hand-eye coordination

(Yes, I really enjoyed Mirror's Edge, it was very different to other games which were coming out at the same time. Mirror's Edge Catalyst on the other hand I found a bit underwhelming, which was disappointing. Not a bad game, but I had hoped it would be incredible).

Nah, I put it down purely because movement felt like swimming in a gunge tank. I absolutely hated how stiff it felt, and wasn't prepared to sit through an entire game of that. Thankfully, it was free, so I didn't lose any actual money on it.

Actually, the one example of FP platforming actually working was Thief: TDP/TMA. Everything else poo.

[Khellendros]

Maark Abbott, on 08 October 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 08 October 2018 - 08:17 AM, said:

If you didn't actually play the game for more than 5 minutes then your opinion on it is somewhat less credible I have never seen you play a game, but from my experience I put it to you that the controls were not sluggish - rather, it was your own response times and hand-eye coordination

(Yes, I really enjoyed Mirror's Edge, it was very different to other games which were coming out at the same time. Mirror's Edge Catalyst on the other hand I found a bit underwhelming, which was disappointing. Not a bad game, but I had hoped it would be incredible).

Nah, I put it down purely because movement felt like swimming in a gunge tank. I absolutely hated how stiff it felt, and wasn't prepared to sit through an entire game of that. Thankfully, it was free, so I didn't lose any actual money on it.

Actually, the one example of FP platforming actually working was Thief: TDP/TMA. Everything else poo.

Yeah, no. While the Thief games are fun, FP platforming has moved on since 1998. Dying Light, Deadcore, Valley, and, yes, Mirror's Edge and new Doom all have well-handled, responsive FP platforming. As for ME specifically, I certainly never found it stiff, even when replaying it years later. It had faults, as all games do, but for me the controls and movement were not one of them. Did you have to play and practice to get better at the platforming? Well, yeah, but that is hardly a fault.

[Maark Abbott]

Khellendros, on 08 October 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 08 October 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 08 October 2018 - 08:17 AM, said:

If you didn't actually play the game for more than 5 minutes then your opinion on it is somewhat less credible I have never seen you play a game, but from my experience I put it to you that the controls were not sluggish - rather, it was your own response times and hand-eye coordination

(Yes, I really enjoyed Mirror's Edge, it was very different to other games which were coming out at the same time. Mirror's Edge Catalyst on the other hand I found a bit underwhelming, which was disappointing. Not a bad game, but I had hoped it would be incredible).

Nah, I put it down purely because movement felt like swimming in a gunge tank. I absolutely hated how stiff it felt, and wasn't prepared to sit through an entire game of that. Thankfully, it was free, so I didn't lose any actual money on it.

Actually, the one example of FP platforming actually working was Thief: TDP/TMA. Everything else poo.

Yeah, no. While the Thief games are fun, FP platforming has moved on since 1998. Dying Light, Deadcore, Valley, and, yes, Mirror's Edge and new Doom all have well-handled, responsive FP platforming. As for ME specifically, I certainly never found it stiff, even when replaying it years later. It had faults, as all games do, but for me the controls and movement were not one of them. Did you have to play and practice to get better at the platforming? Well, yeah, but that is hardly a fault.

It seems pointless to 'play and practice' at something that at base level feels muddy and unresponsive. Your argument seems based on the puerile "git gud" logic, whereby not enjoying something for literally any reason is backed up by the logic of a 13 year old "u bad at it lul". For me to ditch a game at the tutorial, it has to have extremely severe flaws that will very obviously impinge on enjoyment.

New Doom is also a great example of how FP platforming can spoil a game further, because whilst at base level it's a bad game for myriad other reasons, the abysmal mandatory platforming segments made it at points entirely unbearable.

[Serenity]

I'm enjoying Xenoblade Chronicles on my 3DS so much that my thoughts are already turning towards playing XC2 which, of course, means buying a Switch. So I'm on the verge of a purchase, paused, one foot dangling over the abyss, held there by the possibility of sales/new bundles in the run up to Christmas and muddled by the uncertainty brought on by the rumours of a new Switch iteration in 2019/20.

[Khellendros]

Maark Abbott, on 09 October 2018 - 05:45 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 08 October 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 08 October 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 08 October 2018 - 08:17 AM, said:

If you didn't actually play the game for more than 5 minutes then your opinion on it is somewhat less credible I have never seen you play a game, but from my experience I put it to you that the controls were not sluggish - rather, it was your own response times and hand-eye coordination

(Yes, I really enjoyed Mirror's Edge, it was very different to other games which were coming out at the same time. Mirror's Edge Catalyst on the other hand I found a bit underwhelming, which was disappointing. Not a bad game, but I had hoped it would be incredible).

Nah, I put it down purely because movement felt like swimming in a gunge tank. I absolutely hated how stiff it felt, and wasn't prepared to sit through an entire game of that. Thankfully, it was free, so I didn't lose any actual money on it.

Actually, the one example of FP platforming actually working was Thief: TDP/TMA. Everything else poo.

Yeah, no. While the Thief games are fun, FP platforming has moved on since 1998. Dying Light, Deadcore, Valley, and, yes, Mirror's Edge and new Doom all have well-handled, responsive FP platforming. As for ME specifically, I certainly never found it stiff, even when replaying it years later. It had faults, as all games do, but for me the controls and movement were not one of them. Did you have to play and practice to get better at the platforming? Well, yeah, but that is hardly a fault.

It seems pointless to 'play and practice' at something that at base level feels muddy and unresponsive. Your argument seems based on the puerile "git gud" logic, whereby not enjoying something for literally any reason is backed up by the logic of a 13 year old "u bad at it lul". For me to ditch a game at the tutorial, it has to have extremely severe flaws that will very obviously impinge on enjoyment.

New Doom is also a great example of how FP platforming can spoil a game further, because whilst at base level it's a bad game for myriad other reasons, the abysmal mandatory platforming segments made it at points entirely unbearable.

Actually, you're the one who is automatically conflating play further with 'git gud'. Our fundamental disagreement here is on the responsiveness of ME controls - in my experience with the game, it feels like you're mistaking getting used to - at the time - a fairly novel control scheme with clunkiness. I'm sure that when I first started the game I constantly ran into walls rather than ran up them or vaulted, or fell a hundred stories rather than clearing a jump. It's not 'perseverance through muddy controls' to continue with the game, it's just, you know, playing. I was intrigued by the story and the world they had built, and as I played further the controls began to feel like second nature. For me, then, the initial unresponsiveness came from my inexperience, and not because I would press A and nothing would happen for half a second, as you seem to imply.

I'm not attempting to convince you of anything, only demonstrate how I found the game to be. It does, however, seem to me that you are very quick to pass judgement on games. In a way, I can't blame you - there are too many games and too little time

But...seriously? Platforming in Doom was easy, natural, and added good verticality to the levels. There was no massive platforming section to get in the way, it was solely a mechanic for traversing a part of the level (and adding another dimension to fights). I think you're going to continue to be the sole dissenting voice on this game

[Mentalist]

movement and platforming in Mirror's Edge started to make sense once you stopped thinking of it in terms of platforming, and started thinking in terms of momentum-based physics puzzle.

It's unfortunate that Dice felt the need to throw combat in the mix because it confused people away from this type of thinking.

[Serenity]

Briar King, on 10 October 2018 - 02:01 AM, said:

Serenity, on 09 October 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

I'm enjoying Xenoblade Chronicles on my 3DS so much that my thoughts are already turning towards playing XC2 which, of course, means buying a Switch. So I'm on the verge of a purchase, paused, one foot dangling over the abyss, held there by the possibility of sales/new bundles in the run up to Christmas and muddled by the uncertainty brought on by the rumours of a new Switch iteration in 2019/20.

The Wii game on 3DS? Not sure I'd like that. Need the full tv screen to take in the beauty this game has.

New Switch? Like an upgraded console(PS Slim)?

Nobody really knows yet - the Wall Street Journal published something saying it's coming and everyone's jumped on it but nobody knows what the changes will actually be. Can't see Nintendo confirming any details until after Christmas, somehow, cos they won't want to affect sales of the existing one.

re Xenoblade, yeah I it's the Wii game on 3DS - it's very impressive but I do agree with you, this game needs a bigger screen. I bought the 3DS version, but last night I decided to switch to the emulated Wii version via Dolphin on my pc with the HD textures mod installed and it looks amazing. Means I've had to start over but I really don't mind.

[Maark Abbott]

Khellendros, on 09 October 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 09 October 2018 - 05:45 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 08 October 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 08 October 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 08 October 2018 - 08:17 AM, said:

If you didn't actually play the game for more than 5 minutes then your opinion on it is somewhat less credible I have never seen you play a game, but from my experience I put it to you that the controls were not sluggish - rather, it was your own response times and hand-eye coordination

(Yes, I really enjoyed Mirror's Edge, it was very different to other games which were coming out at the same time. Mirror's Edge Catalyst on the other hand I found a bit underwhelming, which was disappointing. Not a bad game, but I had hoped it would be incredible).

Nah, I put it down purely because movement felt like swimming in a gunge tank. I absolutely hated how stiff it felt, and wasn't prepared to sit through an entire game of that. Thankfully, it was free, so I didn't lose any actual money on it.

Actually, the one example of FP platforming actually working was Thief: TDP/TMA. Everything else poo.

Yeah, no. While the Thief games are fun, FP platforming has moved on since 1998. Dying Light, Deadcore, Valley, and, yes, Mirror's Edge and new Doom all have well-handled, responsive FP platforming. As for ME specifically, I certainly never found it stiff, even when replaying it years later. It had faults, as all games do, but for me the controls and movement were not one of them. Did you have to play and practice to get better at the platforming? Well, yeah, but that is hardly a fault.

It seems pointless to 'play and practice' at something that at base level feels muddy and unresponsive. Your argument seems based on the puerile "git gud" logic, whereby not enjoying something for literally any reason is backed up by the logic of a 13 year old "u bad at it lul". For me to ditch a game at the tutorial, it has to have extremely severe flaws that will very obviously impinge on enjoyment.

New Doom is also a great example of how FP platforming can spoil a game further, because whilst at base level it's a bad game for myriad other reasons, the abysmal mandatory platforming segments made it at points entirely unbearable.

Actually, you're the one who is automatically conflating play further with 'git gud'. Our fundamental disagreement here is on the responsiveness of ME controls - in my experience with the game, it feels like you're mistaking getting used to - at the time - a fairly novel control scheme with clunkiness. I'm sure that when I first started the game I constantly ran into walls rather than ran up them or vaulted, or fell a hundred stories rather than clearing a jump. It's not 'perseverance through muddy controls' to continue with the game, it's just, you know, playing. I was intrigued by the story and the world they had built, and as I played further the controls began to feel like second nature. For me, then, the initial unresponsiveness came from my inexperience, and not because I would press A and nothing would happen for half a second, as you seem to imply.

I'm not attempting to convince you of anything, only demonstrate how I found the game to be. It does, however, seem to me that you are very quick to pass judgement on games. In a way, I can't blame you - there are too many games and too little time

But...seriously? Platforming in Doom was easy, natural, and added good verticality to the levels. There was no massive platforming section to get in the way, it was solely a mechanic for traversing a part of the level (and adding another dimension to fights). I think you're going to continue to be the sole dissenting voice on this game

Verticality, yes. But natural, not at all. It felt jammed in there and interfered with the flow of the game (which was excessively juddering at the best of times). The controls in Doom 16 were one of my major issues with it, because for a game that attempted to emphasise movement and speed, you were about as agile as Master Chief at the start of Halo 3 right after he lands in the jungle.

In short, if I can tell very early on a game is going to be ass garbage I won't waste time on it because there's no point slogging out something that won't give me any returns. I gave Doom far more of a chance because of it being Id and was let down horrendously for it (it's pretty much the gaming equivalent of The Way of Kings - people love it for some reason despite that it's a steamer). I'm absolutely fine being the sole dissenter because a bad game shouldn't ever be given a free pass due to who made it, which is demonstrably the case with Doom 16, and why Eternal will not receive any of my time.

[Mentalist]

Fanatical has a 2K sale, and additonally, X-Com 2 is their Star Deal @ over 70% off. Buying gets you a Steam key. Picked up both 2 and Enemy Within expansion for the 1st game.

There's also supposed to be a pretty good Squeeenix sale on GMG

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 12 October 2018 - 11:59 PM

[Serenity]

XCOM 2 is fantastic and gets about a hundred times better with the War of the Chosen expansion. Enemy Within is very nearly perfect. The only thing that very slightly lets it down is variety of maps, but it improves over the base game a lot in that department. Plus it has the fishing village mission.

[Serenity]

I may have sort of just ordered a Switch.

[Maark Abbott]

n

Serenity, on 25 October 2018 - 07:22 AM, said:

I may have sort of just ordered a Switch.

Buyer thattest Octopathen.

[Serenity]

Maark Abbott, on 25 October 2018 - 07:57 AM, said:

n

Serenity, on 25 October 2018 - 07:22 AM, said:

I may have sort of just ordered a Switch.

Buyer thattest Octopathen.

Already done

[Aptorian]

Isn't there a revision of the Switch just around the corner?

[Serenity]

Late next year, apparently. Caused me a lot of indecisiveness but then I decided it doesn't bother me . . . at the moment, anyway. If it's that much better I'll just have to buy another one

[Cause]

Alternative Goose, on 25 October 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

Isn't there a revision of the Switch just around the corner?

I bought mine in may and nearly didn't because I kept asking myself when will the better switch come out. I decided you cant wait forever. There is always something better coming. If you want it and will use it you have to pull the trigger sometime. If a very superior iteration comes along I'm sure I can get some value for mine second hand and will consider the upgrade,

[Aptorian]

Sure. I just thought the revision was right around the corner.