[Omtose]

Liosan, on 11 February 2010 - 09:10 PM, said:

Meanas, I'd like you to quote your night action PMs. Such is allowed in this game, and surely it would give credence to your case?

provided he doesn't make it up

[Galayn Lord]

Sorry to everyone for disappearing. RL showed up, kicked my ass, dragged me down a flight of stairs, kicked me in the meat and two veg,and spit in my eye...I should be good to go now. Reading up, it doesn't look like anyone noticed I was even gone..... I feel slighted.


I missed both lynches and feel like an ass.


From reading up(read skimming) it looks like Liosan is the prime target today. I will read up on him this evening, and maybe place a vote.

Again, sorry.

[Liosan]

@Meanas, obviously I can't explain the sympage. In fact, it's not sympage, it's defence and what I would call reasonable thinking. But then, I'm biased as they're arguing in my favour. Korbas was strangely dogged in my defence, however, while Ruse seems to have just hunkered down and started to be obstinate - his POV is correct, so Sukul can go suck his..erm...wavelets.

The post you just quoted doesn't reveal any special knowledge on my part - whether all leaders can recruit or not is irrelevant, really, to the point I was making. If Sukul is a leader that cannot recruit, then he also doesn't know I'm not on his team, does he? But, if he IS a leader that can recruit, then he knows I'm not on his team because he hasn't recruited me, right?

[Sukul Ankhadu]

Liosan, on 11 February 2010 - 09:20 PM, said:

@Sukul, and yet, your entire reason for voting me is based on me not being in your team, and therefore a threat....true, as you say, you never know (unless it's your leader or your recruit), but I just found it interesting that you were so certain Ruse not voting for me means he's on my team, and yet your own certainty that I'm not on your team means that my deduction about you and/or your leader on the train is correct. Goes both ways, man.

No this is not quite true. Of course I can't know if you're on my team or not, but my reasons for voting you are built on the fact that you are not my leader, and secondly that Meanas seems to think you're a threat to his faction, ergo you're possibly a another faction's leader. Logical reasoning.

Edit: added bold

This post has been edited by Sukul Ankhadu: 11 February 2010 - 09:26 PM

[Sukul Ankhadu]

Really, is it that hard to follow?

Edit: you come off as really desperate now, Lio.

This post has been edited by Sukul Ankhadu: 11 February 2010 - 09:27 PM

[Liosan]

Mass crosspostage. @Omtose, that's a given, but the night action result he posted actually aided my argument...why would he do that?

@GL - someone did mention you should be coming up for modkill, iirc.

@Sukul - yes, you know I'm not your leader, but what about a faction mate? If I was on your faction and rank 3 (which I'm certainly not, don't know about being on your faction), then I'd be an asset. The reason I felt OK voting for Spite and such, is because they're accused of being leaders, not just powerful recruits - therefore, as I know Spite isn't my leader, I can vote that way with confidence that I won't be damaging my faction too much.

This post, too, will probably be crosspost heaven...

[Omtose]

K this will be my last post bc inet's killin my battery. At this poimt our course of action should be to vote off Lio and then next day Meanas, if hes still alive. Hopefully, some of the low posters will get weesed out by nks.

K im gone for the next 5 h or so.

[Omtose]

Liosan, on 11 February 2010 - 09:29 PM, said:

Mass crosspostage. @Omtose, that's a given, but the night action result he posted actually aided my argument...why would he do that?

@GL - someone did mention you should be coming up for modkill, iirc.

@Sukul - yes, you know I'm not your leader, but what about a faction mate? If I was on your faction and rank 3 (which I'm certainly not, don't know about being on your faction), then I'd be an asset. The reason I felt OK voting for Spite and such, is because they're accused of being leaders, not just powerful recruits - therefore, as I know Spite isn't my leader, I can vote that way with confidence that I won't be damaging my faction too much.

This post, too, will probably be crosspost heaven...

spite is accused of being anos sub. Iirc

[Liosan]

Surprisingly not. 7 anon's on, where's everyone else?

Sukul, 'desperation' isn't something that you can gauge from me proving your logic is flawed. Just because someone isn't voting for me, doesn't mean they're on my team. Same as you voting for me doesn't prove anything other than the fact I'm not your leader. However, your entire argument was "you're not on my team", not "you're not my leader". You, sir, seem desperate to lynch me based of Meanas' word, when even he acknowledges his night PM doesn't suggest I'm powerful like he first thought.

[Tennes]

Meanas, on 11 February 2010 - 09:22 PM, said:

Sukul Ankhadu, on 11 February 2010 - 09:19 PM, said:

Liosan, on 11 February 2010 - 09:17 PM, said:

See, that says nothing about me, as far as I can tell. You forget the order of precedence rule: if you were attacked and lost out, your action might not have gone through at all. Remember that you said you submitted your action last minute.

I, on the other hand, have never been gifted with a 'your army is now rank x' - night one my action failed, night two I didn't get it in on time.

HAH!

OK, I don't get the 'HAH' comment here, because Liosan does have a point on my particulars.

I'm beginning to suspect that both you and Liosan are offensive armies and attacked each other, losing 1 army size apiece. The alternative is you're both tactical and tried to find each other, but it hardly seems like you'd be that bent on getting rid of him if he didn't have nightkills and a reason to try to target you. It might have been him pushing for your lynch if he'd been on more often.

[Korbas]

Sukul Ankhadu, on 11 February 2010 - 09:25 PM, said:

Liosan, on 11 February 2010 - 09:20 PM, said:

@Sukul, and yet, your entire reason for voting me is based on me not being in your team, and therefore a threat....true, as you say, you never know (unless it's your leader or your recruit), but I just found it interesting that you were so certain Ruse not voting for me means he's on my team, and yet your own certainty that I'm not on your team means that my deduction about you and/or your leader on the train is correct. Goes both ways, man.

No this is not quite true. Of course I can't know if you're on my team or not, but my reasons for voting you are built on the fact that you are not my leader, and secondly that Meanas seems to think you're a threat to his faction, ergo you're possibly a another faction's leader. Logical reasoning.

Edit: added bold

So you're willing to take Meanas' word for it?

You're willing to vote someone just because Meanas thinks he's a threat?

That's rather trusting of you.

I would call symping except you have been following too blindly to be an actual symp, so I think you are fake-symping him.
There are two main reasons I can think for this.

You can get someone lynched by fake symping, without having to attack anything they've actually done. So, perhaps you want Meanas lynched.
The other reason being that if people think you a symp, and dismiss you as a subordinate, it gives you a good hiding place if you are not.

Ruse has a good point about the fact that Omtose seems to be symping you aswell.

[Liosan]

Dude, I'm defensive personality, no nightkills here. As I said, I missed my night 2 action, in any case.

[Telas]

Omtose, on 11 February 2010 - 09:32 PM, said:

Liosan, on 11 February 2010 - 09:29 PM, said:

Mass crosspostage. @Omtose, that's a given, but the night action result he posted actually aided my argument...why would he do that?

@GL - someone did mention you should be coming up for modkill, iirc.

@Sukul - yes, you know I'm not your leader, but what about a faction mate? If I was on your faction and rank 3 (which I'm certainly not, don't know about being on your faction), then I'd be an asset. The reason I felt OK voting for Spite and such, is because they're accused of being leaders, not just powerful recruits - therefore, as I know Spite isn't my leader, I can vote that way with confidence that I won't be damaging my faction too much.

This post, too, will probably be crosspost heaven...

spite is accused of being anos sub. Iirc

I think there was some mention of hiim as a possible leader. Meanas definitely made some worrying comments which could be defense iirc.

[Sukul Ankhadu]

Liosan, on 11 February 2010 - 09:29 PM, said:

Mass crosspostage. @Omtose, that's a given, but the night action result he posted actually aided my argument...why would he do that?

@GL - someone did mention you should be coming up for modkill, iirc.

@Sukul - yes, you know I'm not your leader, but what about a faction mate? If I was on your faction and rank 3 (which I'm certainly not, don't know about being on your faction), then I'd be an asset. The reason I felt OK voting for Spite and such, is because they're accused of being leaders, not just powerful recruits - therefore, as I know Spite isn't my leader, I can vote that way with confidence that I won't be damaging my faction too much.

This post, too, will probably be crosspost heaven...

As far as I know we are only going for folks we think are possible leaders. And I can't really go on anything else except you are not my leader, because that is all I know. Yes, I know it's a possibility I'm shooting myself in the foot. Does the fact that I am willing to take the risk make me a bad mafia player? I can't ignore the information, and the risk of another faction leader getting more powerful is not a good thing - it outweighs any possible scenario where I would lose a team member. And I have no indication that is the case either. None. Zero.

[Meanas]

I'm glad we're getting discussion, and I'm a lot less certain now about Liosan given the potential for NA order of operations.

Remove Vote
Vote Spite

Everyone kept saying I was Spite's symp, so I may as well prove I'm not at this point.

I saw a few other theories and whatnot, but I need to head to a meeting and will have to respond when I get back.

[Sukul Ankhadu]

Liosan, on 11 February 2010 - 09:32 PM, said:

Surprisingly not. 7 anon's on, where's everyone else?

Sukul, 'desperation' isn't something that you can gauge from me proving your logic is flawed. Just because someone isn't voting for me, doesn't mean they're on my team. Same as you voting for me doesn't prove anything other than the fact I'm not your leader. However, your entire argument was "you're not on my team", not "you're not my leader". You, sir, seem desperate to lynch me based of Meanas' word, when even he acknowledges his night PM doesn't suggest I'm powerful like he first thought.

If he is retracting his threat assessment, it of course means my assessment will change, but considering Ruse's and Korbas' posts, I'd say we've struck something. I am not ready to give up the idea that you are a leader just yet. Although I have to admit that fake sympage is popular in this game.

[Tennes]

Liosan, on 11 February 2010 - 09:35 PM, said:

Dude, I'm defensive personality, no nightkills here. As I said, I missed my night 2 action, in any case.

I might be basing too much on that half day scene, but that 'wiped out each other's armies' line being highlighted, and posted after Meanas' reveal, suggests there's a lot more to that than just fluff. Saying you're defensive is a good way to deter nightkills, but would mean Meanas was tactical and failed his find against you if you're not lying.

@Telas: Which comments were these?

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 22 hours and 59 minutes remaining
12 Players still alive: Galayn Lord, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose, Ruse, Spite, Sukul Ankhadu, Telas, Tennes, Tulas Shorn

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Telas ( Spite )
1 Vote for Sukul Ankhadu ( Ruse )
3 Votes for Liosan ( Korvalain, Sukul Ankhadu, Omtose )
1 Vote for Meanas ( Tulas Shorn )
2 Votes for Spite ( Liosan, Meanas )

Players not voted: Galayn Lord, Korbas, Telas, Tennes

[Telas]

One sec, i remember one that i replied to at the time, so il try to find that now and see if i can find others

[Korbas]

Hmm, that's interesting.
If Meanas wasn't on the level, I wouldn't have really expected that reaction. I would expect someone not being honest about it to condemn it as being really unlikely or whatever, or at least something like "We should still lynch you to make sure". Makes me feel a bit better about the reveal that he actually seems to have doubts about it, that he does consider that there could be another explanation such as what Lio suggests. I still don't like the bit about him being reduced in power levels. I still think he had an ulterior motive, but it makes me feel that instead of it being case of him having another motive and making the case simply for that motive, he may have been on the level about Liosan, aswell as having his other motive.

I'm going to:

Vote Sukul A.

Because I think his agreement with meanas is too blind to be real, and because omtose does appear to have been symping him.