[Meanas]

Telas, on 11 February 2010 - 10:05 PM, said:

This to me screamed distancing.

Meanas, on 10 February 2010 - 03:42 PM, said:

I'd also like to state that I do, otherwise, agree with the sentiment that Spite is the most likely person to be on Ano's faction, and thus the least likely to be on mine, but I know the pain of being in a leaderless faction all too well and it is NOT easy to win.

edit: Fix'd

Although thats not quite enough going through his posts i think he was the first in the new day to suggest Spite as an Ano but he then went on to push for the leader lynch, and voted for Liosan as a low poster. To me this definitely suggests that he put out spite as a symp because people were going to go for him, so he might as well put him out in the spotlight and then move it off of him onto other people so as to not leave suspicion on either him or Spite.

So yeah, Spite could be Meanas' master but im not that sure about it.

Except that I changed my vote to Spite in a tense situation, right? Oh wait, that means Liosan is really my master now, isn't it?

[Tennes]

Meanas, on 12 February 2010 - 12:27 AM, said:

Liosan, on 11 February 2010 - 09:35 PM, said:

Dude, I'm defensive personality, no nightkills here. As I said, I missed my night 2 action, in any case.

Re-catching up... this post here pretty much confirms that Liosan is Tactical. It's already confirmed that offensive officers have failed their NKs, so they're all rank 1. Now you're saying you're still rank 1 and defensive... and offensive > defensive. So you just told every offensive player in the game to kill you.

In other words, you are trying to draw in offensive NKs and keep everyone at that level at rank 1, since tactical > offensive.

Ah, but that means that either you're offensive and tried to kill him, marking you out, or you're tactical and tried to find him, you both lost a size point and now he's only rank 1. So you're a killer or a liar if he is a tactical officer.

[Tennes]

And yes, that is assuming that offensive faction leaders can do other things at night. Like recruit.

[Meanas]

Haha, that's fun, Tennes, and an excellent point... although it has some interesting ramifications.

Actually, if I'm Defensive and he's Tactical, I could still have failed my action if I had been hit by two defensive night actions. One, at rank 2, to reduce my rank. The second, at rank 1, to block me altogether.

And if I'm Tactical and he's Tactical, then a level 2 tactical player hit me last night and knocked me down, and in the process, I failed my action against level 1 Liosan.

If I'm offensive, then I never was able to rank up as obviously evidenced by the lack of kills.

So either I'm Defensive and was double-teamed by other defensive players, I'm tactical and got singled out by a higher rank tactician, or I'm offensive and a liar.

But I'm not a killer OR a liar. I'd have to be both. Which I'm not.

[Meanas]

Oh, and let's not forget the entire scenario in which Liosan is level 2 (or level 3). Both of those would have caused me to fail my night action if I had been knocked down to level 1 beforehand.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 19 hours and 29 minutes remaining
12 Players still alive: Galayn Lord, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose, Ruse, Spite, Sukul Ankhadu, Telas, Tennes, Tulas Shorn

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Telas ( Spite )
2 Votes for Liosan ( Korvalain, Omtose )
1 Vote for Meanas ( Tulas Shorn )
4 Votes for Spite ( Liosan, Meanas, Sukul Ankhadu, Ruse )

Players not voted: Galayn Lord, Korbas, Telas, Tennes

[Meanas]

Well, it's typical downtime on Malazan Mafia. I'll be around sporadically.

[Spite]

Telas, on 11 February 2010 - 05:26 PM, said:

Spite, on 11 February 2010 - 03:15 AM, said:

I have a few thoughts, but have to run. I will be back on in an hour or so.

For the moment, I think the Korv and Okaros voting pattern does make them look like a faction, with Okaros the more likely leader. I also find it odd that two days in a row Telas has suggested someone as a viable lynch target, without voting on them, only to have Ruse come on later and make a large case against them. Day one Telas postulated that Ano was actually a leader without voting on him, which was followed by a Ruse megapost naming Ano a leader. Today Telas names myself a viable lynch target while voting for Okaros and once again Ruse follows up with a megapost targeted at the lynch target Telas has named but not voted on. At this point I make Ruse a sub of Telas, doing the dirty work so Telas and their eight posts can lie low.

Vote Telas

Ok i can see your point sort of, but the second one doesnt follow to me. Your saying because Ruse made a megapost on you when i voted for Okaros that he must be somehow following my orders by making a megapost on the other main candidate? that just seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

Right now im not sure who to go for, possibly Korv or Spite as im pretty sure theyre not on my team and im not getting that many leader vibes from other people right now.

Ruse, on 11 February 2010 - 06:06 PM, said:

As far as Spite's Accusation that I made cases on 2 of Telas' votes:

poppycock!

He voted on Okaros and I made a case on... Spite? huh? that doesn't make sense.

Do you both think we are all that simple?

Yes, Telas voted on Okaros, I even said so in my post. I do know that.

Day one the mention of Ano was made before the train had gained a lot of momentum, as was Ruse's megapost. As momentum picked up Telas voted there. Day two the momentum never built up on my train so of couse Telas isn't going to switch votes. That would be akin to both of you coming on thread and swearing you were in the same faction.

[Spite]

Liosan, on 11 February 2010 - 10:45 PM, said:

Well, Spite's vanishment could just be RL-related. I know that I'm normally busy all day and sleeping the rest of the time.

You are correct, I have a very narrow playing window right now. I'll be doing my best to add content while I am here, but I cannot be on as often as I like.

[Galayn Lord]

I don't like your reveal Meanas. It's very pushy.

Having "read" the game thread since I was last able to participate. The person that most stood out to me was Meanas. He is clearly trying to steer the game.


The water is very muddy right now for me to be able to pick up any real team playing(symp)

Leaders can hide anywhere. I believe meanas is hiding in his post count.

But Ruse was right I haven't put a vote out so, vote Meanas

This could be just me.

I'm so tired right now I'm hallucinating.

[Omtose]

Meanas, on 12 February 2010 - 01:27 AM, said:

Well, it's typical downtime on Malazan Mafia. I'll be around sporadically.

naturally, the downtime's when i'm back home.

[Tulas Shorn]

Ok, maybe I'm not smart enough (probably) but I haven't seen anything in the conversation today that seems like a glaring bright pointy arrow at anyone in particular.

What I don't like, however, is how the people getting some heat (Liosan, Meanas and to a lesser extent Sukul) are choo chooing on Spite, which I thought was rather a dead end yesterday. This makes it all too easy for everyone else to be lazy and just pile on as time winds down.

[Spite]

So, the entire case on me at this point is still based on this post:

Ruse, on 10 February 2010 - 05:57 PM, said:

Ok caught up and it seems some teams are forming. For the people advocating a "lets let spite slide because we should be going for leaders" I think you are being a bit daft. Spite himself said it was coincidence and that Ano wasn't his leader.. take that as you will, In my posts yesterday I stated that its possible spite was just middle of the roading . (as a possible leader would do). I also believe that when you have a team down.. you kill it. That way there are no mistakes. From the way post lynch has shaken out, it looks to me, in the way the Okaros train has gathered steam alarmingly quickly, that we have a leader in the front part of this train, directing his followers.

Interesting - I was not on the train when you posted this, the votes were from Meanas, Tulas Shorn and Telas. In fact I later came on both making a case against and voting for Telas. From the number of people who followed it (zero) I must surely be a leader?

Here is a quote by spite throwing out his list of Possible Leaders. Notice he latches onto Okaros at the end soley based on the fact that he was early in the train and that people followed him ( by that logic, anyone that isn't the lead vote is a sub..) Meanas uses this later as well.

Spite, on 10 February 2010 - 03:04 AM, said:

I think that we need to be reading more into the lower posters than in previous games. Both for the fact that important characters tend to hide among them the first few days and because I think the ME mafia trend of continually lynching the high posters is doing bad things to the game. So far we have four people with five or fewer posts, two of whom still managed to vote on Ano (Telas and Korbas - Omtose voted on Sukul):

Telas 5
Omtose 4
Korbas 4
Liosan 3

And three with 6 posts (all of whom still managed to vote on Ano):

Ruse 6
Sukul Ankhadu 6
Okaros 6

Of those, Ruse was the one who made the actual case that Ano was a leader. The most thought out of the votes and a decent case (whether or not I agree with it). I doubt he is a leader (or at least doesn't deserve the lurker title) at this point just due to the amount he contributed in that one post alone.

Korbas, Sukul and Telas were pile on votes.

Okaros was the second vote.

I would not be surprised to find a faction leader among Okaros, Korbas, Sukul and Telas. I would also not be surprised to find that Okaros was a faction leader and at least one of the later voters was a sub to him. I'll reread the posts from all those six and under and see if anything sticks out.

Then look who pops on and immediately votes Okaros. Based on that "analysis" above. What analysis. He is voting him because he was second on the train.

Conclusion: Tulas is not on the same team as Okaros. He voted for Okaros both days and was probably happy to jump on a reason to start that train again

Tulas Shorn, on 10 February 2010 - 05:35 AM, said:

Well, the analysis of Okaros above, and my misgivings about him yesterday makes me want to go ahead and vote him again - just to get things rolling.

And I agree, low posting has been the MO of faction leaders in recent merc games.

Vote Okaros

Then on comes Meanas sayig that we shouldn't be trying to knock off a team, but instead looking for leaders. I'm sorry, but I think this is a bad idea. We don't KNOW that spite is a Ano follower. WE strongly suspect based on yesterdays interactions, but we don't know. As myself and a couple others pointed out yesterday before the lynch, he might have been middle-of-the-roading. Which is a leader tactic. I am just pointing out here that I don't agree with Meanas' opinion.

And voting for someone we strongly suspect is a sub, and by now may have been recruited by your faction is both a winning ploy and more likely to hit a faction leader than even voting randomly?

Meanas, on 10 February 2010 - 03:31 PM, said:

Good morning!

I'm not sure that I agree with hunting down a weakened faction for two reasons. It 1) allows every other faction to try and win an arms race against my faction. And 2) it does nothing to help me determine who else is in my faction. Ano's faction is completely crippled. I don't know how many starting factions there are, but I'd imagine it's in the neighborhood of 3-6 (each faction having 2-4 members, maybe a lone wolf faction in there). A faction of a few people that has already lost its leader is going to have an absolute nightmare of a time trying to win the game.

It's much more prudent to hunt down other leaders, IMO.

But then this one takes the cake for me. Meanas is basing his vote on the fact that a player folloed soeone twice in a game... if thats the case then if I vote for Okaros, does that mean I am a Subordinate of Meanas? I will have followed him both days. Actually, by Spite's logic. Meanas is a likely leader as he was the first person on the Ano bandwagon, and the third person on the Okaros train.

Incorrect, my stab in the dark was based on absolute coasters jumping on a train. I even pointed out that I wouldn't include you in that category as you were not coasting. Misleading much?

Meanas, on 10 February 2010 - 03:40 PM, said:

Current votes:

Okaros (Tulas)
Liosan (Meanas)
Spite (Okaros, Liosan)

So Liosan has popped out of the woodwork to drop a second vote on Spite. And Korvalain, although he hasn't voted, hasn't committed to voting anyone else, and has soft-spoken some support for Spite as a back-up candidate. This kind of behavior just pisses me off. Why are people still saying "We should consider lynching this guy" and not either 1) voting them or 2) offering some alternative(s)? This looks like an attempt to offer support of Okaros's case, without committing to it too early and starting a train.
Here's a kicker for me.

Yesterday's votes:

8 votes Anomandaris (Meanas, Okaros, Korvalain, Ruse, Telas, Tennes, Korbas, Sukul Ankhadu)
2 votes Okaros (Tulas Shorn, Anomandaris)
1 vote Sukul Ankhadu (Omtose)

Korvalain followed Okaros onto the train. It's safe, IMO, to say that Tulas is not a sub of Okaros, since he voted him both days (yesterday may have been a signal, today unlikely). Ano obviously wasn't a sub of Okaros. So if we're looking at yesterday's votes as any form of signal, I'd be extremely dubious about people that vote on the same train who seem to have similar interests in the following days.

Today, Korvalain follows that pattern.

Remove Vote
Vote Okaros

Do I think the Okaros case has merit... yes actually. I do. the Korv votes are suspect, but it could also be a crafty player trying to get someone killed. I think we need to look at voting patterns but not to the exclusion of other player interactions. Would I vote Okaros. Absolutely. He's not my big dog so I could care less.but...


vote Spite

why?

He might be the last person of Ano's faction thus eliminating a possible victor over my team. I am certainly not in Ano's faction at this point
He might be a leader, and from the way Tulas and Meanas have jumped on his initial vote they are prime suspects for last nights recruiting or possible original member.
Unless he is your leader I see no reason why a person trying to win for their team wouldn't vote Spite. Because they highly suspected I could be recruited

I understand that in a merc game it is dangerous, to defend someone, and it looks like I am doing that to Okaros. But whatever, i am going to say what I think and i think its a real tactical error to let spite wander around free when he is a known enemy. I have been bit in the ass way to many times to leave someone at my backside like that.

If it comes down to make or break,lynch/no lynch, I will swap over to Okaros, but I think Spite is the better choice.

Perhaps I was wrong in suggesting Telas was the leader. If we are still running with this case,it seems it is due to someone's recruit attempt failing. I will have a look over the voters on me, but I highly suspect there are a faction leader or two on my train.

Edit: My comments in red

This post has been edited by Spite: 12 February 2010 - 03:23 AM

[Spite]

Anyway, I am off for a bit. As he is one of those who fits my own leader criteria noted above:

Vote Liosan

Though I would happily switch for Ruse, or Sukul.

[Tulas Shorn]

Well, looking at your train, if there were any teams or leaders there, I would break it down like this.

Possible leaders:
Liosan, Meanas, Sukul (don't think Ruse is a leader)

Liosan Sukul Ruse could all be teammates.

Replace Liosan with Meanas and those 3 could be potential teammates. ( I dont think Lio and Meanas are together)

I think Spite is less likely a leader.

So...Liosan and Meanas are my bets, with Sukul possibly a leader as well.

I think I'll just leave my vote where it is.

[Omtose]

hehe
I'm still not seeing Spite as leader, tbh.

to those who believe i'm syming Sukul--toss enough votes and i'll gladly hammer him to prove you wrong. he ain't my leader.

as for who to vote right now.... i'll need to go back and take a look at the two trains. but my gut still screams Meanas is trouble.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 16 hours and 5 minutes remaining
12 Players still alive: Galayn Lord, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose, Ruse, Spite, Sukul Ankhadu, Telas, Tennes, Tulas Shorn

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

4 Votes for Spite ( Liosan, Meanas, Sukul Ankhadu, Ruse )
3 Votes for Liosan ( Korvalain, Omtose, Spite )
1 Vote for Meanas ( Tulas Shorn )

Players not voted: Galayn Lord, Korbas, Telas, Tennes

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 12 February 2010 - 04:40 AM

[Spite]

To be honest, I am reluctant to go after Meanas at the moment - entirely due to the fact he is the highest poster. I can see he is trying to steer the game (as is most everyone else), but this game would be very slow without him. We need to lynch him at some point, but losing him now would mean a lot less information to go off of later. My opinion is to lynch him in a couple days, sooner if we see some night kills.

If that train builds, I would join it, but it will make determining alliances later more difficult.

[Path-Shaper]

Well, I'm going to bed. See you in the morning!

[Omtose]

Path-Shaper, on 10 February 2010 - 01:26 AM, said:

As I said before, I'd expect D'rek to embellish this considerably when she returns. But for now:

14 players still alive: Anomandaris, Galayn Lord, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Okaros, Omtose, Ruse, Spite, Sukul Ankhadu, Tennes, Telas, Tulas Shorn

8 votes to lynch. 7 to go to night.

8 votes Anomandaris (Meanas, Okaros, Korvalain, Ruse, Telas, Tennes, Korbas, Sukul Ankhadu)
2 votes Okaros (Tulas Shorn, Anomandaris)
1 vote Sukul Ankhadu (Omtose)

--------------------------------------------------------

One day Sun Ce was leading some troops in a hunt by Xishan in Dantu. They had a large deer on the run. Sun Ce's horse, given free rein, had chased it up a hillside. Sun Ce found himself among some trees, where three men with spears and bows appeared. "We are Xu Gong's men, here to avenge our lord," they cried. One of the men had raised his bow and positioned an arrow. He shot Sun Ce in the cheek. Sun Ce pulled the arrow out, took his own bow, and shot back. The man fell as the bowstring sang. The remaining two forced Sun Ce back, jabbing wildly with their lances. It was a struggle to the death. Sun Ce was stabbed in several places, and his horse was maimed. His life was hanging in the balance when Chen Pu rode up with a small party and hacked the two assailants to pieces.

Once home, Sun Ce sought the services of the healer Hua Tuo, but the physician had gone to the north, leaving behind a disciple. He was summoned to treat Sun Ce's wounds. "The arrow," the doctor observed, "was tipped with a poison that has penetrated the bone. You need a hundred days' quiet convalescence before the danger will pass - and don't let moods of anger affect you, or the wounds will not heal." Sun Ce, it so happened, had a most irascible nature and was frustrated that he could not be cured that very day.

After some twenty days of resting, the patient heard that a messenger had returned from the capital, and he called him for questioning. "Yuan Shu," the messenger began, "is quite wary of your, my lord, and his counselors respect your prestige. The only exception is Lü Fan." "And what does he have to say?" Sun Ce asked. The messenger hesitated, angering Sun Ce, who pressed him to convey facts. "Lü Fan told Yuan Shu," the envoy finally admitted, "that you were not a serious concern because you are reckless and always ill prepared, hasty and deficient in strategy, a foolhardy man sure to die by a scoundrel's hand." "That fool dares to rate me! I'll take his capital!" Sun Ce swore.

But as the shout burst from Sun Ce, his wounds reopened and he fainted. His mother had him carried to a bedchamber, but he failed to regain consciousness. With that Sun Ce passed away at the age of twenty-six.



Anomandaris(General King) is dead. He was the Warlord Sun Ce.

--------------------------------------------------------

It is now Day 2. 39 hours and 59 minutes remaining
13 Players still alive: Galayn Lord, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Okaros, Omtose, Ruse, Spite, Sukul Ankhadu, Telas, Tennes, Tulas Shorn

7 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.


Players not voted: Galayn Lord, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Okaros, Omtose, Ruse, Spite, Sukul Ankhadu, Telas, Tennes, Tulas Shorn

Path-Shaper, on 11 February 2010 - 04:42 AM, said:

Day 2 is ended.
13 Players still alive: Galayn Lord, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Okaros, Omtose, Ruse, Spite, Sukul Ankhadu, Telas, Tennes, Tulas Shorn

7 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

3 Votes for Spite ( Okaros, Liosan, Ruse )
7 Votes for Okaros ( Tulas Shorn, Telas, Tennes, Sukul Ankhadu, Meanas, Omtose, Spite )

Players not voted: Galayn Lord, Korbas, Korvalain

---


After Liu Bei completed his conquest of Liu Biao's domain, he turned his eyes south to the rest of Jing province. Han Xuan, governor of Changsha just south of the river, immediately sent forth his top general Wei Yan with all the troops he could muster, but the army was decimated in a fiery ambush perfectly executed by Liu Bei's strategist, Xu Shu. With Liu Bei's troops overrunning his capital, Han Xuan fled south with his son, Han Hao, to the remote regions controlled by governor Jin Xuan. Han Xuan said, "Jin Xuan's Wu Ling has tens of thousands of troops, more than enough to hold off Liu Bei. If they receive us, we can kill the governor, take his land, and rebuild our strength until we're ready to stand against Liu Bei. That way we can recover the whole of Jing." Thus agreed, father and son presented themselves. But the governor, feigning illness, postponed their reception and kept them in a guesthouse.

Before long spies reported to the governor that Liu Bei was established in Changsha and had no intentions of marching to Wu Ling. Delighted with the news, Jin Xuan positioned armed men behind the wall hangings in the official hall and had the visitors shown in. The formalities concluded, the governor bade them be seated. It was bitter cold. Han Xuan, seeing no cushions on the floor, asked, "May we have mats?" Glaring at them, the governor said, "Your heads are going on a long journey. What do you want mats for?" Han Xuan was taken aback. Jin Xuan shouted, "Guards! What you waiting for?" The executioners rushed out and beheaded the men where they sat. The governor had their heads place in a wooden box, which he dispatched to Changsha. Liu Bei received the heads and sent to Wu Ling a thousand catties of fine silk as a token of appreciation. Thereafter, Liu Bei made no plans to conquer Wu Ling.

Okaros (alt146) is dead. He was the Warlord Han Xuan.

ok, looking at this, extrapolating from the logic of "Omtose is voting same as Sukul, he must be Sukul's sub, ZOMG!"

I see the same pattern with Tennes following Telas.

so, for now

remove vote
vote Telas

i'll have to think more about this tomorrow moring, right now it's sleeptime