[Korbas]

Ruse, on 11 February 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

I'd also like to point out that Neither Korbas or Gay lord have thrown a vote yet. Middle-of-the-road much?

Today? Or the whole game? I voted ano on day one.

I try not just to throw random votes around.

I don't currently feel like voting Liosan because I distrust Meanas' reveal, and would like to see Liosans reaction(also the reason i'm not voting Meanas).

Have a couple of others suspicions but it's dinner, so I will voice them after....

[Sukul Ankhadu]

Ruse you should always be hesitant about reveals in mafia - however if Meanas reveal is even remotely real, the only one it is not beneficial to is Liosan's faction. It's hard to get past this argument. In this case, the enemy of your enemy is your friend, simple as that.

[Ruse]

Meanas, on 11 February 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

Ruse, on 11 February 2010 - 06:23 PM, said:

Well it's pretty clear that a Liosan lynch is doubly helpful for Meanas, 1 it gets rid of a possible leader, and it gets rid of someone who he knows is more powerful than him. Each faction needs to determine if that's beneficial for them... knowing that it's also doubly helpful for Meanas

It's safe to say that anybody sitting at Rank 3 is going to pretty much be unstoppable right now and should easily waltz up the promotion chain.

However, it kind of sounds like you're advocating a scenario in which Liosan is left alive simply for us to see if he promotes or not. We don't know that someone else won't try to hit Liosan to check my theory, or because that person is Rank 3 and wants to hit a powerful enemy, or whatever.

But don't forget, a rank 3 person, regardless of their rank must attack the appropriate type of unit. If they don't the action fails and they don't raise/lower a level.

[Korbas]

Ruse, on 11 February 2010 - 06:38 PM, said:

Korbas, on 11 February 2010 - 06:26 PM, said:

Meanas, on 11 February 2010 - 05:38 PM, said:

Korbas, on 11 February 2010 - 05:25 PM, said:

Not sure I can buy that you'd reveal that information just to get the game going. Ok, the game is slow and I can see people getting frustrated, but potentially putting yourself at a disadvantage just to get it going? It makes much more sense just to wait and try and get him lynched without revealing and then reveal later if you really have to. Makes me a bit suspicious you've got another motive beyond what you're saying. Perhaps making yourself seem less of a threat(Oh, woe is me, who has been reduced to a lowly level...) since you starting getting a bit more heat. The timing is rather convinient.

It jars that the post before you revealed out of frustration you claimed that "Ultimately, I play for my leader to win", which seems a bit contradictory considering that your reveal does not seem to be the wisest tactical move, which doesn't fit well with the image of someone who is playing for the larger goal.

In your favour, you did attack Liosan earlier, so it doesn't seem to be an inconsistent choice of action for you.

I wouldn't mind a Liosan vote, he's not my leader, and isn't really contributing enough to get much of a read on. But I distrust your reveal, I think it's there for more reasons that you say, and I don't like that.

Well, up until you showed up and criticized my release of information, you had the exact same number of posts as Liosan, so hopefully that tells you exactly what I think of your "mistrust."

Still doesn't adress my concerns, attacking my post count isn't the same as offering an explanation.

This is a good point, his rebuttal is invalid.. but what do you want him to say? "You're right I am a Liar!!" or "Nuh-uh, I am telling the truth!!" Whatever he says will be met with Skepticism, it's your job to figure out, based on his play, if you believe it or not.

He could just say nothing, or point out what you just did. Attacking me looks like he is trying to use that as a defence.

[Ruse]

Korbas, on 11 February 2010 - 06:39 PM, said:

Ruse, on 11 February 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

I'd also like to point out that Neither Korbas or Gay lord have thrown a vote yet. Middle-of-the-road much?

Today? Or the whole game? I voted ano on day one.

I try not just to throw random votes around.

I don't currently feel like voting Liosan because I distrust Meanas' reveal, and would like to see Liosans reaction(also the reason i'm not voting Meanas).

Have a couple of others suspicions but it's dinner, so I will voice them after....

My Mistake. I completely missed you on the Ano train. My apologies.

[Korbas]

Sukul Ankhadu, on 11 February 2010 - 06:41 PM, said:

Ruse you should always be hesitant about reveals in mafia - however if Meanas reveal is even remotely real, the only one it is not beneficial to is Liosan's faction. It's hard to get past this argument. In this case, the enemy of your enemy is your friend, simple as that.

This is true, the only faction it doesn't benefit is Liosans.
However, there still could be a better lynch, and it's possible Meanas is trying to direct us away from that.

It is more beneficial to look for other leaders, rather than to simply lynch anyone who is not your own.

[Ruse]

Korbas, on 11 February 2010 - 06:44 PM, said:

He could just say nothing, or point out what you just did. Attacking me looks like he is trying to use that as a defence.

I suppose- but as Meanas has already pointed out in this game and shown through his post count, he doesn't "say nothing" and I guess, agree to disagree in regards to him attacking you, I didn't see his post as attacking you, but more of " You haven't posted anything so your opinion really doesn't matter to me" but thats just my take on it.

[Meanas]

Ruse, on 11 February 2010 - 06:34 PM, said:

Sounds similar to your theory of leaving Spite around just because he is a suspected follower of Anomander.. no?

I would go with a Liosan Lynch, he has done absolutely squat for this game, not like it would be a big loss... i am however hesitant to be helpful to the person who is steering the game and has double the posts of the closest person on the list.

You make an excellent point, but I'd argue that the key difference is I believe Spite is mostly weak and powerless, whereas Liosan is not. But I get the point, very much so.

[Sukul Ankhadu]

Korbas, on 11 February 2010 - 06:46 PM, said:

Sukul Ankhadu, on 11 February 2010 - 06:41 PM, said:

Ruse you should always be hesitant about reveals in mafia - however if Meanas reveal is even remotely real, the only one it is not beneficial to is Liosan's faction. It's hard to get past this argument. In this case, the enemy of your enemy is your friend, simple as that.

This is true, the only faction it doesn't benefit is Liosans.
However, there still could be a better lynch, and it's possible Meanas is trying to direct us away from that.

It is more beneficial to look for other leaders, rather than to simply lynch anyone who is not your own.

I already said that Meanas might be trying to create a diversion, but right now Liosan is the best vote, but of course that doesn't stop any of us from keep looking for other leaders. But I don't see how it's beneficial for factions not liosan's to ignore the reveal either. Actually it might be quite dumb.

[Meanas]

Ruse, on 11 February 2010 - 06:42 PM, said:

But don't forget, a rank 3 person, regardless of their rank must attack the appropriate type of unit. If they don't the action fails and they don't raise/lower a level.

Incorrect. Trust me, I've triple-checked the language of this rule.

Quote

Hostile night actions (hostile = pretty much anything except Heal) will not succeed if the army performing the action is smaller than its target.

Any hostile night actions performed where the two armies are the same size will succeed depending on the personality of the officers commanding the armies:

-Offensive succeeds against Defensive, but fails against Tactical
-Defensive succeeds against Tactical, but fails against Offensive
-Tactical succeeds against Offensive, but fails against Defensive

Performing a hostile action against an army of the same size commanded by an officer of the same type will fail, but reduces the target's Army Size by 1.

Basically, D'reks rule is this. Your action will always succeed... UNLESS

1) You are smaller than your target
OR
2) You are the same size as your target, and you do not win Rock-Scissors-Paper matchup.

The only thing D'rek didn't do is explicitly state when your action succeeds. In this case, it's in every case where you don't fail, which is

1) You're bigger
OR
2) You're the same size and win the matchup

[Meanas]

Korbas, on 11 February 2010 - 06:44 PM, said:

He could just say nothing, or point out what you just did. Attacking me looks like he is trying to use that as a defence.

Korbas, I'm annoyed that someone so absent is suddenly making a big hullabaloo out of my case on another, equally absent player. In my opinion, you don't have the right to criticize my case because you've been missing too long.

I'm pretty much going to ignore you now. As Christian Bale said, "You and me, we're done, professionally."

[Meanas]

You guys should also know we can infer quite a bit of information from the night results so far.

Specifically, ALL offensive subs have failed all of their actions and are all still rank 1.

[Ruse]

Meanas, on 11 February 2010 - 06:55 PM, said:

Ruse, on 11 February 2010 - 06:42 PM, said:

But don't forget, a rank 3 person, regardless of their rank must attack the appropriate type of unit. If they don't the action fails and they don't raise/lower a level.

Incorrect. Trust me, I've triple-checked the language of this rule.

Quote

Hostile night actions (hostile = pretty much anything except Heal) will not succeed if the army performing the action is smaller than its target.

Any hostile night actions performed where the two armies are the same size will succeed depending on the personality of the officers commanding the armies:

-Offensive succeeds against Defensive, but fails against Tactical
-Defensive succeeds against Tactical, but fails against Offensive
-Tactical succeeds against Offensive, but fails against Defensive

Performing a hostile action against an army of the same size commanded by an officer of the same type will fail, but reduces the target's Army Size by 1.

Basically, D'reks rule is this. Your action will always succeed... UNLESS

1) You are smaller than your target
OR
2) You are the same size as your target, and you do not win Rock-Scissors-Paper matchup.

The only thing D'rek didn't do is explicitly state when your action succeeds. In this case, it's in every case where you don't fail, which is

1) You're bigger
OR
2) You're the same size and win the matchup

I see.. the only time the R P S comes into play is when you are the same Size.

[Korbas]

Meanas, on 11 February 2010 - 06:57 PM, said:

Korbas, on 11 February 2010 - 06:44 PM, said:

He could just say nothing, or point out what you just did. Attacking me looks like he is trying to use that as a defence.

Korbas, I'm annoyed that someone so absent is suddenly making a big hullabaloo out of my case on another, equally absent player. In my opinion, you don't have the right to criticize my case because you've been missing too long.

I'm pretty much going to ignore you now. As Christian Bale said, "You and me, we're done, professionally."

Right, just ignore anyone who disagrees with you. Thats really productive.

How is the game meant to move forward if every time people have a disagreement, instead of generating a discussion, they just stop talking?

A rather odd attitude for someone complaining about lack of activity.

I fail to see how not having much time over the past days means that my thoughts are somehow less valid.

[Path-Shaper]

Meanas, on 11 February 2010 - 06:55 PM, said:

Basically, D'reks rule is this. Your action will always succeed... UNLESS

1) You are smaller than your target
OR
2) You are the same size as your target, and you do not win Rock-Scissors-Paper matchup.

3) You're guarded
4) The target is healed (if your action is a kill)
:happy:

[Tennes]

So, the offensive officers targeted tactical ones and/or the defensive officers got very lucky, and now there's not likely to be many night kills from that. Unless perhaps one of the offensive officers has other abilities they can do at night as well as kill?

I'm betting that someone starts that 'oh noes, he mentioned something HE MUST HAVE IT' speculation crap again.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 25 hours and 28 minutes remaining
12 Players still alive: Galayn Lord, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose, Ruse, Spite, Sukul Ankhadu, Telas, Tennes, Tulas Shorn

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Telas ( Spite )
1 Vote for Tennes ( Ruse )
1 Vote for Meanas ( Tulas Shorn )
3 Votes for Liosan ( Meanas, Korvalain, Sukul Ankhadu )
1 Vote for Spite ( Liosan )

Players not voted: Galayn Lord, Korbas, Omtose, Telas, Tennes

[Korbas]

It is odd how that you have turned to attack my lack of activity simply for me not taking your reveal at face value.

[Path-Shaper]

As the number of players decreases, I may start posting the "half-day" scenes earlier than half, as fewer posts are required to lynch and you may actually end up lynching far from 40 hours into the day. So, here's today's:

---

The Emperor entered Luoyang and saw the ruin of his former capital - the palace buildings burned out, the streets and markets desolate. Everything was overgrown with weeds. The walls of the palaces were crumbling. Emperor Xian ordered Yuan Shu to build a small dwelling to serve as a provisional palace. In the meantime court was held in the open woods.

Grand Commandant Yang Biao appealed to the Emperor: "The decree with which you honored me has yet to be dispatched. At present Yuan Shao has the most powerful army in the northeast. He should be summoned to support the royal house." "I have so ordered," said the Emperor. "A second petition is not necessary. Send someone and be done with it." In accordance with the imperial will, an envoy was sent.

In Luoyang the Emperor found all in ruin. Even the walls were beyond repair. Moreover, reports of new threats from Fan Chou and Zhang Ji alarmed him. To Yuan Shu the Emperor said, "Our messenger has not returned. Our enemies could come at any time. What can we do?" Yuan Shu replied, "I will fight to the death to protect Your Majesty." But Dong Cheng said, "Look at our walls and how few soldiers we have! What if we fail? I recommend that Your Majesty proceed to Cao Cao's camp." The Emperor approved, and that day the court set out for the region east of Huashan. Horses were so scarce that the officials followed the Emperor's carriage on foot.

The procession was hardly under way when clouds of dust darkened the sky ahead, and the air throbbed with drums and gongs. Masses of troops loomed in the distance. Emperor and Empress were too frightened to speak. A single rider approached. It was the imperial envoy. "General Yuan Shao," he reported, "has called up every soldier in the northeast and is coming in response to your decree. He has sent Yan Liang on ahead with ten top generals and fifty thousand picked men to deal with the threat to Luoyang from Fan Chou and Zhang Ji." At last the Emperor felt safe.

At the suggestion of Shao's generals, the Emperor returned to his former palace in Luoyang. Yan Liang stationed his army outside the city. The next day Yuan Shao arrived with the main force, established camp, and was received. Prostrating himself below the stairs to the imperial dais, Yuan Shao acknowledged his sovereign. The Emperor bade him stand and commended him for his service. Yuan Shao and his advisors spent the rest of the day updating the Emperor on recent events: after Tao Qian's general Zhang Kai had killed Cao Cao's family, Cao Cao had invaded Xu and Yang. In the west, Han Sui had come into conflict with his sworn-brother Ma Teng, and a great battle was fought between them at Tianshui. Tao Qian and Han Sui's forces were both completely wiped out.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 11 February 2010 - 07:21 PM

[Meanas]

Korbas, on 11 February 2010 - 07:13 PM, said:

Meanas, on 11 February 2010 - 06:57 PM, said:

Korbas, on 11 February 2010 - 06:44 PM, said:

He could just say nothing, or point out what you just did. Attacking me looks like he is trying to use that as a defence.

Korbas, I'm annoyed that someone so absent is suddenly making a big hullabaloo out of my case on another, equally absent player. In my opinion, you don't have the right to criticize my case because you've been missing too long.

I'm pretty much going to ignore you now. As Christian Bale said, "You and me, we're done, professionally."

Right, just ignore anyone who disagrees with you. Thats really productive.

How is the game meant to move forward if every time people have a disagreement, instead of generating a discussion, they just stop talking?

A rather odd attitude for someone complaining about lack of activity.

I fail to see how not having much time over the past days means that my thoughts are somehow less valid.

Holy cow, are you serious? Look at the arguments I've had with Tulas, Ano, Ruse, Okaros, and others! I'm fine arguing with people who actually are contributing. I'm not going to waste my breath on a guy who spends his time lurking and posting strategically.