[Sinisdar Toste]

thanks most gracious oh great quote-fu master. so ST has planted his scrawny arse in the throne of KE, and with all that potential power he does... nothing? maybe, but maybe not

[Hetan]

Urizen, on 31 October 2009 - 11:25 AM, said:

Actually he does.

"The broken, crushed fragments of wood melted away. And once more there on the dais stood the Throne of Shadow. And stepping free of it, a shadowy form more solid than any other. Hunched, short, shrouded in folds of midnight gauze. from the indistinct smudge here a face belonged, only the eyes were visable, momentarily, a glinting flash. The figure moved away from the throne, towards the doorway...silver and ebony cane tapping on the pavestones."

There is no reference to him sitting in it - stepping free does not mean sitting as he could have been stood alongside it.

[Sinisdar Toste]

i knew someone was gonna point that out... damn you semantics!! always messing with my neat tidy worldview

[Powder]

Sinisdar Toste, on 02 November 2009 - 06:50 PM, said:

i knew someone was gonna point that out... damn you semantics!! always messing with my neat tidy worldview

He does'nt have to sit in it right now. He has it in his pocket and can assume the role whenever it is convienient for him. Coincidentally, whether he has planted his shadowy arse upon this throne yet does'nt really seem to matter no?

-Powder

[Silencer]

Yet...why is he losing substance? It's a conundrum, I tells ya!

Grawr. Pedantic Hetan is pedantic.

[champ]

In HoC after the throne of shadow has been defended, in a lil chit chat with Cotillion, Apsalar and Cutter i think, it is it comes out that like Powder says, why sit on it now and bring about a whole new war, as to usurp ST they would have to kill him rather than at the moment, play his games trying to claim it as he runs rings around everyone! n that its rare to happen, unveiling yourself sat on a throne, unless your an almighty power threak of an ascendant!

Also comes out in the chat about the T'Lan mass throne, and why hes not been throwing his weight behind using its power, as to do that would advertise the fact that theres a throne in the first place, not commonly know, n that its ST at the moment who owns seating rights.

Think it starts around page 772 in HoC paperback but dont have the book to hand, or else thats another page i noted to reference!

Just moved onto MT again so bring on Tehol n all the above could change again!

[Hetan]

Silencer, on 02 November 2009 - 08:48 PM, said:

Yet...why is he losing substance? It's a conundrum, I tells ya!

Grawr. Pedantic Hetan is pedantic.

I'd need to look at those bits where Cotillion is remarking on it and Shadowthrone's replies - my impression whilst reading was that it was more an affectation of his rather than anything else, but he is Shadowthrone so I didn't really pay a lot of attention to that.

I discount the comment from the Imass (I thinkit was Monok Ochem?) about his losing veracity (I think that was the phrase) as this refers to his having ascended and being no longer mortal, hence unable to command the Imass any more.

Pedantic? you have no idea....

[Powder]

Hetan, on 04 November 2009 - 01:38 PM, said:

Silencer, on 02 November 2009 - 08:48 PM, said:

Yet...why is he losing substance? It's a conundrum, I tells ya!

Grawr. Pedantic Hetan is pedantic.

I'd need to look at those bits where Cotillion is remarking on it and Shadowthrone's replies - my impression whilst reading was that it was more an affectation of his rather than anything else, but he is Shadowthrone so I didn't really pay a lot of attention to that.

I discount the comment from the Imass (I thinkit was Monok Ochem?) about his losing veracity (I think that was the phrase) as this refers to his having ascended and being no longer mortal, hence unable to command the Imass any more.

Pedantic? you have no idea....

Pedantic -
–adjective 1. ostentatious in one's learning. 2. overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, esp. in teaching.
Just in case there were others out there who had no idea what that word meant.

[ElT]

Just to throw another idea into the mix:

I've been doing a very close re-read of the Malazan series and last night came across the moment where Apsalar meets Telorast and Curdle for the first time in TBH. Now at this point Apsalar was traversing in what I'm assuming to be ST's realm of Shadow, however the two ghosts originally assume that she's Andiian. After a moment it got me thinking, why? Why not, as it was Shadow, Edur? Now there might be a perfectly good reason for this (i.e. the talk of Meanas and Rashan being a blend of Kurald Galain, Emurhlan and Thyrllan), but I just got a sneaky feeling that ST may be making some inroads on Kurald Galain.

And something else just popped into my head: didn't ST engineer the events of TtH that led to the return of Mother Dark?

[amphibian]

ElT, on 11 November 2009 - 08:41 PM, said:

And something else just popped into my head: didn't ST engineer the events of TtH that led to the return of Mother Dark?

He met with Hood and Rake in the prologue to discuss arrangements, but the enormous role that Rake played in those events suggest that Shadowthrone was not the prime architect of that particular sequence. It may have fit his overarching plan, but his role seemed limited to getting Dassem's timing right, the Hounds and making a possible grab for the sword through Pust.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 11 November 2009 - 08:47 PM

[ElT]

True, but is that not how ST usually works? I can't remember the quote exactly, but more than one character has commented that it would be simply mind-boggling to think that ST has engineered all the events that will culminate in TCG, however ST does show a great deal of ability in manipulating circumstances as they come along.

O.o

Just imagine, sitting around a table, ST, Quick Ben, Tehol and Bottle...

[Hellian's Keg Lid]

I'd have thought their assumption that she was Andiian was you know... The wholebackground we learned about in DoD... Its a Tiste Andii/Edur bastard realm dweller come home... Or they just lied, based on the body nearby that they'd tried to possess - which isn't strange for them to do.

[Tremolo]

Maybe ppl of Tiste origin all just look the same to Curdle and Telorast?

This post has been edited by Tremolo: 12 November 2009 - 11:56 AM

[Hetan]

Silencer, on 02 November 2009 - 08:48 PM, said:

Yet...why is he losing substance? It's a conundrum, I tells ya!

Grawr. Pedantic Hetan is pedantic.

Hehe... being pedantic I researched Shadow a bit and here's what Endest Silann had to say about Shadow :- Shadow is, and Shadow is not, and to dwell within it is to be neither of one thing nor any other.

[Tattersail_]

throwing my pov across, firstly, ammanas does not need to sit on the real throne of shadow, he is not looking to settle on one throne, he is making a play for a whole lot of thrones, he wants to be the emperor of the gods, okay the last bit was just speculation, but he can access starval demelain, why not make a play to rule all the aspects? Ammanas and Cottilion are very clever, they know what they want but we don't and that is so frustrating in a good way that is

[iRFNA]

amphibian, on 11 November 2009 - 08:46 PM, said:

ElT, on 11 November 2009 - 08:41 PM, said:

And something else just popped into my head: didn't ST engineer the events of TtH that led to the return of Mother Dark?

He met with Hood and Rake in the prologue to discuss arrangements, but the enormous role that Rake played in those events suggest that Shadowthrone was not the prime architect of that particular sequence. It may have fit his overarching plan, but his role seemed limited to getting Dassem's timing right, the Hounds and making a possible grab for the sword through Pust.

Well, kilmandaros seemed to think ST and cot had a pretty big role, judging by her reaction to their presence in that whole ordeal. Something about Them!, overwhelming rage, and smashing rubble into dust.

[Flincher14]

Tattersail, on 08 September 2010 - 03:38 PM, said:

throwing my pov across, firstly, ammanas does not need to sit on the real throne of shadow, he is not looking to settle on one throne, he is making a play for a whole lot of thrones, he wants to be the emperor of the gods, okay the last bit was just speculation, but he can access starval demelain, why not make a play to rule all the aspects? Ammanas and Cottilion are very clever, they know what they want but we don't and that is so frustrating in a good way that is

This hit me like a brick to the face. Kellanved and Dancer created the Malazan Empire with one of its core motivations to unite the world and bring peace and prosperity. Once they realized and enacted a plan that could get them into god hood it makes a lot of sense they could have decided to go after all the thrones to unite the pantheon and bring about a golden age such as the one the empire itself is attempting to bring about on Wu.

Another point is it may be impossible for Kellanved to sit on the true throne of shadow because hes human. There are many Elder warrens/holds that humans can't access, humans can access the offspring warrens that currently exist in present time and can be employed by humans. It is know that humans can access the warren Kellanved now controls but not the true warren of shadow that only the Tiste Edur can control. Shadowthrone's only option is to make sure the true throne of shadow remains empty so that he still controls the power of shadow and can use it to further his own needs which would be almost impossible if the True Shadow Throne was occupied.

I'm fairly confident the last paragraph is how it is. I would love to be proven wrong or right by some of you more knowledgeable folks.

[Torrud Segul]

ST has ascended though, if it makes a difference as to whether or not he can command the T'lan Imass it should make a difference whether to or not he can command KE

[Flincher14]

Torrud Segul, on 09 September 2010 - 02:03 AM, said:

ST has ascended though, if it makes a difference as to whether or not he can command the T'lan Imass it should make a difference whether to or not he can command KE

The fact he should be able to sit on the throne because hes ascended doesn't fit with his actions. Kellanved knows where the True shadow throne is, he can go there whenever he wants but I bet if he sits on it nothing happens. Becoming an ascended human doesn't change your species an ascended human may still be denied access to elder warrens.. Its not too hard to believe some warrens are race aspected, you wont see anyone but a Jagnut on the throne of Omtose Phellack, perhaps only Tiste Edur can actually sit on the shadow throne and use its power. (only Shadowthrone wont allow himself to be usurped

This post has been edited by Flincher14: 09 September 2010 - 05:50 PM

[iRFNA]

Flincher14, on 09 September 2010 - 11:10 AM, said:

you wont see anyone but a Jagnut on the throne of Omtose Phallic

Sitting on the throne of Omtose Phallic sounds... painful... even for a jagnut