[Alkend]

 Tulas Shorn, on 13 October 2009 - 03:24 AM, said:

 Alkend, on 12 October 2009 - 05:34 PM, said:

4 Kalse, 3 Tennes. Congrats on stalling a lynch.

Remove Vote
Vote Kalse

 Alkend, on 12 October 2009 - 05:38 PM, said:

To clarify for you, you are stalling out the Kalse lynch in a major way.

I suppose I could just vote Tennes and see if anyone else will switch over to vote him off. But L-2 is closer than L-3 considering how we barely got a lynch yesterday.

Hey Alkend, why`d you get all antsy when you perceived a change in direction with the case and votes on Tennes? With 2 hours left, it was hardly a derail at that point, and as you can see, in the end there were plenty of people on to complete either lynch. If 2 hours is too little to decide a direction, do we have to make our decisions with 6 hours to spare everytime? At the 2 hour point, we don`t dare present alternative evidence? I know that the weekend was slow, but it wasn`t the weekend anymore, and if I`m not mistaken I was the only one to have claimed I wouldn`t be back for deadline. For me at the time, voting Kalse was my only real option since I would be gone for 6 hours up until deadline and I too was concerned with getting a lynch. However, my impression from reading was there was a legitimate chance of swinging a lynch in a different direction.

Not to mention, at that point there was only 1 difference in vote total between Kalse and Tennes anyways. If you had removed and voted Tennes, it would have been 4 to 4 with Tennes having the momentum. So...we should have gotten a lynch either way. Yet your reasoning for voting Kalse was to ensure a lynch, even with an even number of votes?

And to be honest, I was never really sold on the Kalse case and would have switched to Tennes myself if I`d been online.

Vote Tennes


P.S. That night time reveal was retarded.

Silly Dragon, it would have been one vote less if I had voted for Tennes, assuming you count lynchable players voting for each other. Kalse made the most sense.

I don't have any feelings about Tennes. He's a big pile of stones. But he isn't getting my feathers ruffled like Ampelas is.

[Tennes]

Good even-*checks watch* morning people. I suppose its a nice thing that kills are every other night. But the fact that they're killing the ship slowly at the same time is not pleasant. Does ANYone have ANY thoughts AT ALL as to what systems may have been damaged? Cuz last time I asked I got lip service from Thyr about a different point and then nothing.

[Alkend]

 Atrahal, on 13 October 2009 - 03:23 AM, said:

 Alkend, on 13 October 2009 - 03:16 AM, said:

Atrahal, your case is terrible, but I like your vote.

Your reveal is bad, timing and content. Kalse had plenty of chances to reveal and chose to not do so. Why on earth would you believe a random person bonding with you? What proof did he have of Ampelas being scum other than pushing the case?

I think my favorite part of this is that I'd wager pretty good money that ONE of you is scum.

To bad we can't wager in Mafia cause you would lose that bet.

*TRIM*

I am going to bed do as you will.

I'd lose a bet that either you or Ampelas is scum? That's interesting.

Also, nice fake-out going to bed.

[Alkend]

 Tulas Shorn, on 13 October 2009 - 03:58 AM, said:

Ok...I have one issue with this:

Was Kirk's only ability to bond with someone and make them their lover? Yes, that makes sense, but this is CAPTAIN KIRK we're talking about. And it would be significantly different from Kirk in the modcraft game, no?

/shrug

Let's face it, this bogus rule that 'allowed' Atrahal to reveal has pretty much put him to a PI state. I mean seriously, what kind of rule allows players to reveal this kind of information after death? It makes no sense because it basically clears the person.

Now I'm all fine and dandy with that, but if I was scum I'd probably be seething over it.

[Tennes]

I don't think I trust the reveal. I have no reason outside of gut feeling, but it just seems...convenient.

[Korvalain]

 Thyrllan, on 12 October 2009 - 11:32 PM, said:

so every other night it is then.. funny how Korvalain guessed that on day 1.

I am of course awesome like that, knowing all the ins and outs of the game on day 1. But... while I do know it has been said on thread, I doubt it was me - this is reinforced by the fact that I also failed to know what the sabotage mechanic did in the modcraft version of the game. I will stand properly corrected if you supply a quote, of course.

Might be good info to have anyway, although I personally doubt that person will be scum - it is much more advantageous to pretend there's a kill each night and try to draw out a guard reveal on the off-nights.

@ Tennes:

Quote

Good even-*checks watch* morning people. I suppose its a nice thing that kills are every other night. But the fact that they're killing the ship slowly at the same time is not pleasant. Does ANYone have ANY thoughts AT ALL as to what systems may have been damaged? Cuz last time I asked I got lip service from Thyr about a different point and then nothing.

The current opinion based on the modcraft version of the game is that sabotage does not sabotage the ship but various player abilities that rely on technical devices.

[Korvalain]

OK, lots of quotes here. I would appreciate it if Atrahal would enlighten his deal, cause I see a lot of oddities and discrepancies.

 Atrahal, on 12 October 2009 - 07:44 PM, said:

 Kaschan, on 12 October 2009 - 07:36 PM, said:

I'm still here off and on. Lots of people don't like to talk during night. I will say I agree with you on Tennes though.

As for your lover reveal... hmmm Why couldn't you reveal to save him? at that point wouldn't no lynch be better than lynching an inno? I would think revealing lover after the fact is kind of wasted. or am I missing something?

I couldn't reveal that we were lovers I asked the mods. So I tried to do the next best thing and build a case on Tennes. Plus I have nothing to hide. It isn't like I get a power or anything since my lover died. If that was the case I wouldn't have said anything. I was also pissed cause I had been forced off of the computer and as soon as I got back on I saw that he had been lynched.

So, reason for not revealing is the mods saying he can't.

 Alkend, on 12 October 2009 - 11:09 PM, said:

Wow you fail hardcore Atrahal. You are clearly a lying POS because, as everyone else has already pointed out, why on earth would you be allowed to reveal post-mortem if you weren't allowed to reveal pre-mortem? That makes absolutely no sense.

Do you have a code you'd like to share with us that proves it?

Also, if by some miracle the rules are stupid enough to allow you to reveal after the death but not before, why on earth did you reveal DURING NIGHT if you are actually inno?

 Atrahal, on 13 October 2009 - 03:12 AM, said:

Ok you bunch of know it alls. I couldn't reveal earlier cause Kalse being the brilliant captain that he was. Decided not to fucking create the lover bond with me till a hour before his death. I had been getting kicked off of the computer and then I logged on and saw that I had a message and it said you are now butt lovers with Kalse. He sent me a message saying that he was inno and Kirk and that I should try to save him. As soon as I go the thread What do I see but Ampelas killing him. I spoke up as soon as I could. Believe me that I wish that I had been on earlier to have said something and kept the train from lynching him. He only sent me one message and I didn't get to send him any. There are no codes as we were only lovers for a short time. If we had been lovers the entire day I would have worked a lot harder to get that train off of him. As for why he didn't reveal himself I have no idea. Path-shaper just said that he couldn't. And I didn't get the chance to ask him.

Why would I not reveal right away. Why should I bother holding back. I am sure that the scum know who they are at least enough to be able to separate themselves from the town. It isn't like I could paint any kind of target on my back any more then the any other inno. I had extra information that the town didn't so why would I wait to share it. I didn't tell you guys who he was because I didn't want scum to know that during the night but I was definitely going to reveal that we had been lovers. I would have been stupid for me not to of. Sorry if you guys think that you would have played it differently. But tough shit.

Amp your scum, and so are you Tennes.

Amp you said that if you hadn't lynched with 2 hours remaining then we might not have had a lynch at all. Well that is bullshit. Kalse would have had a chance to return and reveal, then I wouldn't be in this bullshit mess. You took that chance from him and frankly the only person who I can think of who would want to finish someone off before they would have had a chance to reveal is SCUM.

Vote Ampelas

So, you now couldn't reveal earlier based on timing.

 Path-Shaper, on 13 October 2009 - 03:34 AM, said:

you are allowed to reveal, but your reveal must NOT, under penalty of modkill, be related to the content of your role PM, insofar as it goes beyound the standard "you are vig/healer/guard/finder/RI/etc"

just a small clarification for you all, since GK appears to be adamant on this rule.

OK Atrahal, so based on the above, your first argument against revealing is:I asked the mods if I could.
Then later, you say that you revealed only at night because Kalse created the lover connection an hour before he died only (false, it's at the least 2 as your Tennes case is 2 hours and 15 minutes or so before the lynch).

That's contradictory.

Then, there is the clarification by P-S. According to P-S, Kalse could easily have said: "I can create lover bonds." He didn't. Also, your timing issue is off, as I said above:

You say:

Quote

So I tried to do the next best thing and build a case on Tennes. Plus I have nothing to hide.

and on the timing of when you learned the lover thing:

Quote

I couldn't reveal earlier cause Kalse being the brilliant captain that he was. Decided not to fucking create the lover bond with me till a hour before his death.

Following quote (heavily snipped) is your Tennes case. the time stamp for the final killing vote is two hours later:

 Atrahal, on 12 October 2009 - 04:57 PM, said:

Now while I don't nessasarily disagree with Thyrllan's case on Kalse I feel that tennes is suspicious enough to warrent more pressure and is probably scum.


Vote Tennes

and the killing vote:

 Ampelas, on 12 October 2009 - 06:14 PM, said:

Sod it, I've got to go and I'd prefer there to be a lynch today.

Remove Vote
Vote Kalse

Note also that Kalse was online after you made your case on Tennes - he rolled with it, 38 minutes after you wrote it. Yet, no reference to being lovers, or to someone else knowing he was inno, only resignation: 'damned no matter what I do':

 Kalse, on 12 October 2009 - 05:35 PM, said:

Kaschan re your post about my not saying, etc - I know you are right. Small things at the time take on much more importance later on...if we knew what they were at the time this game would be so much easier! I should have made it clearer in my vote post though.

*Hypocrite alert* Now that I have had a chance to read the other cases, Amp makes some very good points about Tennes making backward justifications regarding possible symping and for some reason I find I prefer that case to the one on me.

Seriously though has Tennes been around to defend himself? I'll take another look before I vote.



Edit: Cross post

He didn't refer to you, unless he made the mistake of confusing Atrahal and Ampelas... but Amp already made a case on Tennes, and that one he refers to. By P-S vote count, Amps vote was on Tennes before yours:

 Path-Shaper, on 12 October 2009 - 05:52 PM, said:

Day 3, 2 hours and 19 mins left

13 people are still alive: Alkend, Ampelas, Atrahal, Kalse, Karosis, Kaschan, Korbas, Korvalain,Thyrlann, Telas, Tellan, Tennes, Tulas Shorn,

7 votes to lynch or go to night

5 votes Kalse (Thyrlann, Karosis, Korvalain, Tulas Shorn, Alkend,)
1 vote Alkend (Telas)
4 votes Tennes (Ampelas, Atrahal, Kaschan, Kalse,)

3 people haven't voted (Korbas, Tellan, Tennes,)

also, you say:

Quote

He only sent me one message and I didn't get to send him any

According to your post, he sent you a message, you didn't reply, but you did believe him, as you made the Tennes case and searched for quotes for it.
Also, Kalse was online at the time as he posted directly before you made your case (about 10 minutes), and was online after it too, for over half an hour. Yet, you didn't reply to him by PM after making the Tennes case, nor did he send anything to you, despite the fact that the case gathering steam rather rapidly, to 4 for Kalse and 3 for Tennes in votes? Upon reading it back, a swing certainly seemed possible. All in all, the fact that there were no further PMs seems odd.

In other words, you have a few inconsistencies in your explanations. Nothing truly major, but it could make the difference between scum lying and a true happenstance. The reason I hesitate voting you because you named Kalse Kirk and there has been no Kirk counterclaim.

[Korvalain]

to add to the above:

 Atrahal, on 12 October 2009 - 03:14 PM, said:

On my phone, will lay out my case as soon as I have a comp

This was where you announced you (Atrahal)were going to make a case. That was 3 hours before the final vote, 1 hour and 45 minutes before presenting your case, further stretching the timeframe for pm-communication between you and Kalse.

This was the post you sent in before that:

 Atrahal, on 12 October 2009 - 01:31 PM, said:

Looks like I have a bit of catching up to do.

No mention of a case coming up, so I assume you didn't receive a PM by Kalse then.

Kalse by the way only started posting at 12.28 my time, 1 hour and 15 minutes after you mentioned you were going to make a case:

 Kalse, on 12 October 2009 - 04:28 PM, said:

 Korvalain, on 12 October 2009 - 08:07 AM, said:

snipped

Anyay, whine over!

I will now reread the case and try and post a defense as quick as possible...although how you defend yourself without looking scummy I don't know!

Edit: Cross post

So, he PMed you before the point in time where you announced you were going to make a case, correct?
He then appeared only 1 hour and 15 minutes after your announcement to defend himself, which is odd if you are the only seemingly viable lynch target.

From there, it took 30 minutes for you to post your case.

Kalse replied in support of the case on Tennes, but not to you, but to what Amp said.
You were online together for a while, but exchanged no further PMs.

Why did he pick you, and not Ampelas or anyone else around, there were a few after all, and I think most of them had a higher post count at the time than you? All that was there in the discussion was you saying you were catching up, that alone would be hardly a straw worth clutching.

[Karosis]

 Tennes, on 13 October 2009 - 06:15 AM, said:

Good even-*checks watch* morning people. I suppose its a nice thing that kills are every other night. But the fact that they're killing the ship slowly at the same time is not pleasant. Does ANYone have ANY thoughts AT ALL as to what systems may have been damaged? Cuz last time I asked I got lip service from Thyr about a different point and then nothing.

i could have sworn i answered that earlier...

[Karosis]

the only thing stopping me voting for atrahal is the fact that revealing during the night would open him to investigation from the town as well as attack from the klingons. Instead i am going to

vote ampelas

Theres just this nagging feeling that something isnt right there.

[Tulas Shorn]

 Korvalain, on 13 October 2009 - 07:25 AM, said:

@ Tennes:

Quote

Good even-*checks watch* morning people. I suppose its a nice thing that kills are every other night. But the fact that they're killing the ship slowly at the same time is not pleasant. Does ANYone have ANY thoughts AT ALL as to what systems may have been damaged? Cuz last time I asked I got lip service from Thyr about a different point and then nothing.

The current opinion based on the modcraft version of the game is that sabotage does not sabotage the ship but various player abilities that rely on technical devices.

We came to this conclusion? I must have missed it. Are we presuming that Anthras died because his phaser misfired or something?

[Korvalain]

 Karosis, on 13 October 2009 - 08:38 AM, said:

the only thing stopping me voting for atrahal is the fact that revealing during the night would open him to investigation from the town as well as attack from the klingons. Instead i am going to

vote ampelas

Theres just this nagging feeling that something isnt right there.

If he is scum, he wouldn't have to worry about the Klingons. Investigation is a bigger issue, but if the finder(s) believed he PIed himself, why bother investigating? Looking at the reactions to the reveal, no-one said it was impossible, most grudgingly accepted it with complaints about revealing at night, and that includes me.

What is holding me back right now is, as I said, the claim that Kalse was Kirk. However, gleaning from the rules:

Quote

No hinting or paraphrasing of Role pms, this will be enforced bymodkill. But you are still allowed to claim yourself as Captain Kirk or anyone else that comes to mind.

Why the fuck didn't Kalse himself just claim Kirk?
GK openly says here he was allowed to, and I think several of us would have hesitated voting until a counterclaim popped up, or switched to Tennes straight away.

Fuck it. This might be a huge mistake, but there's a lot that doesn't make sense about the whole proceedings and reveal.

Vote Atrahal.

[Korvalain]

 Tulas Shorn, on 13 October 2009 - 09:03 AM, said:

 Korvalain, on 13 October 2009 - 07:25 AM, said:

@ Tennes:

Quote

Good even-*checks watch* morning people. I suppose its a nice thing that kills are every other night. But the fact that they're killing the ship slowly at the same time is not pleasant. Does ANYone have ANY thoughts AT ALL as to what systems may have been damaged? Cuz last time I asked I got lip service from Thyr about a different point and then nothing.

The current opinion based on the modcraft version of the game is that sabotage does not sabotage the ship but various player abilities that rely on technical devices.

We came to this conclusion? I must have missed it. Are we presuming that Anthras died because his phaser misfired or something?

as I said, in the earlier version, sabotage apparently destroyed the devices people like Kirk and Spock use to use their abilities.
Phaser misfiring is an option, but I'd say it's more likely that there's a killer around.

[Tulas Shorn]

@Korv

Ok, I gotcha.

I'll be back in a couple of hours and maybe I'll have been hit by inspiration in the meantime.

[Tennes]

 Korvalain, on 13 October 2009 - 07:25 AM, said:

 Thyrllan, on 12 October 2009 - 11:32 PM, said:

so every other night it is then.. funny how Korvalain guessed that on day 1.

I am of course awesome like that, knowing all the ins and outs of the game on day 1. But... while I do know it has been said on thread, I doubt it was me - this is reinforced by the fact that I also failed to know what the sabotage mechanic did in the modcraft version of the game. I will stand properly corrected if you supply a quote, of course.

Might be good info to have anyway, although I personally doubt that person will be scum - it is much more advantageous to pretend there's a kill each night and try to draw out a guard reveal on the off-nights.

@ Tennes:

Quote

Good even-*checks watch* morning people. I suppose its a nice thing that kills are every other night. But the fact that they're killing the ship slowly at the same time is not pleasant. Does ANYone have ANY thoughts AT ALL as to what systems may have been damaged? Cuz last time I asked I got lip service from Thyr about a different point and then nothing.

The current opinion based on the modcraft version of the game is that sabotage does not sabotage the ship but various player abilities that rely on technical devices.

Ya, that's not the way sabotage works this game. Can't say why, but based on my abilities I know that its not the way it works. Hence why I'm hoping to pick up some subtle hints about system malfunctions. I haven't seen anything in scenes that affects the entire ship, so I suspect any damage that's been done is to low level systems. Shit like the comms unit would affect the whole crew. We'd know if that was down. Stuff like phasers, or consoles might only affect the people capable of wielding phasers or consoles. So I shouldn't say its NOT how it works, its simply modified.

[Korvalain]

@ Tennes: ok.

[Karosis]

not sure what your implying there tennes. are you saying korv is right or wrong? No doubt there are a long list of systems and only a few of them are critical and the klingons have to guess what they are attacking as int he original.

[Korvalain]

 Karosis, on 13 October 2009 - 09:31 AM, said:

not sure what your implying there tennes. are you saying korv is right or wrong? No doubt there are a long list of systems and only a few of them are critical and the klingons have to guess what they are attacking as int he original.

I think he is saying I am wrong

[Karosis]

 Korvalain, on 13 October 2009 - 09:44 AM, said:

 Karosis, on 13 October 2009 - 09:31 AM, said:

not sure what your implying there tennes. are you saying korv is right or wrong? No doubt there are a long list of systems and only a few of them are critical and the klingons have to guess what they are attacking as int he original.

I think he is saying I am wrong

strange i am pretty certain your right.

[Tennes]

I'm saying the majority of the systems they can attack should affect several people, if not all of us. Of course, this makes you partially right as there will be certain things that affect only individuals. But it makes you partly wrong, as not everything will be so limited. I'm only aware of a set number of systems and with the amount of time given in a mafia game it shouldn't run out. As far as I can tell only 2 of these systems would affect individuals, but I can't figure out why the Klingons haven't hit a mass affect (see what I did there?) system. Its annoying as hell.