[drinksinbars]

how do you get specialisation skills (beyond the normal merchant purchased ones of course?)

[Slow Ben]

Hope these are the ones your talking about.

Templar from Alistar
Champion from Arl Eamon after completing his quest.
Berserker from Orghain (sp?)
Shapechanger from Morrigan
Bard from Leliana
Duelist from that woman you meet in the Pearl in Denerim
Assassin from Zevron.
BloodMage from the demon you meet in the fade while doing the Arl of Radcliffe quest and trying to save Connor.


I cant remember the rest, probably meaningi got them from books.

[drinksinbars]

cheers my man

[Jusentantaka]

Slow Ben, on 11 November 2009 - 03:59 PM, said:

Hope these are the ones your talking about.

Templar from Alistar
Champion from Arl Eamon after completing his quest.
Berserker from Orghain (sp?)
Shapechanger from Morrigan
Bard from Leliana
Duelist from that woman you meet in the Pearl in Denerim
Assassin from Zevron.
BloodMage from the demon you meet in the fade while doing the Arl of Radcliffe quest and trying to save Connor.


I cant remember the rest, probably meaningi got them from books.

You forgot Reaver, which you get for siding with the cult in Eamon's quest (and therefore cannot get Champion), arcane warrior which you get from an urn/phlactery during the Dalish Elves quest, and Spirit Healer which you "can" get from Wynne, or just buy the book and save the effort making her like you enough to talk about it. Apparently, there are no books for Reaver or Arcane warrior, so you have to get them when you get the chance. Ranger for rogue's is beyond useless though, unless you want to play a party purely with ranged weapons or no magic.

Kind of depressing that only one of each class's specs are really worth putting 4 points into.

This post has been edited by Jusentantaka: 11 November 2009 - 04:53 PM

[Slow Ben]

THATS where i got Arcane Warrior. I knew i forgot one. Thanks Juse.

[Jusentantaka]

Slow Ben, on 11 November 2009 - 04:52 PM, said:

THATS where i got Arcane Warrior. I knew i forgot one. Thanks Juse.

A pity it is half-useless though... unless you build your character towards it from the beginning it isn't worth it at all. That 50% fatigue penalty burns through magic in half a dozen spells, and by the time you can even get the 4th ability for it, enemies start throwing out all those evil little abilities like assault, knockdown-warcry, paralysis, miasma, ect. Might be better if your magic skill affected the melee damage you deal, but it didn't seem to for me. Alistair still hit for 50 or so damage while I hit for ~30 with an equivalent weapon, and our strength/magic stats were equalish. *sad*

[Knucklehead]

Yes, but Alistair's Templar abilities affect his damage output.

[Tapper]

Jusentantaka, on 11 November 2009 - 04:50 PM, said:

Slow Ben, on 11 November 2009 - 03:59 PM, said:

Hope these are the ones your talking about.

Templar from Alistar
Champion from Arl Eamon after completing his quest.
Berserker from Orghain (sp?)
Shapechanger from Morrigan
Bard from Leliana
Duelist from that woman you meet in the Pearl in Denerim
Assassin from Zevron.
BloodMage from the demon you meet in the fade while doing the Arl of Radcliffe quest and trying to save Connor.


I cant remember the rest, probably meaningi got them from books.

You forgot Reaver, which you get for siding with the cult in Eamon's quest (and therefore cannot get Champion), arcane warrior which you get from an urn/phlactery during the Dalish Elves quest, and Spirit Healer which you "can" get from Wynne, or just buy the book and save the effort making her like you enough to talk about it. Apparently, there are no books for Reaver or Arcane warrior, so you have to get them when you get the chance. Ranger for rogue's is beyond useless though, unless you want to play a party purely with ranged weapons or no magic.

Kind of depressing that only one of each class's specs are really worth putting 4 points into.

Damn I had been looking for the Reaver and at some point starting visiting every merchant I remember, yelling Gief book at my screen. Must say, it isn't very good design to make a prestige class dependant upon a critical choice - the Arcane Warrior is a side quest, Reaver/Champion is directly depending on a main quest.

Spoiler

As an aside, has anyone been able to both get Loghain and keep templar-boy around? Is it even possible? EDIT: nvm, just read on wiki you can't. Had hoped that by being a mean mofo towards alistair, I could toughen him up enough

This post has been edited by Tapper: 12 November 2009 - 10:06 PM

[Gothos]

finally got it and going for Reaver... dunno if it's actually strong enough to bother but I'm aiming for a rather unpleasant character. doing a weapon/shield warrior, and I must say it's pretty dissappointing, keeping aggro is like impossible. also, zevron and sten deal so much damage that it's silly!

[Jusentantaka]

Gothos, on 12 November 2009 - 06:28 PM, said:

finally got it and going for Reaver... dunno if it's actually strong enough to bother but I'm aiming for a rather unpleasant character. doing a weapon/shield warrior, and I must say it's pretty dissappointing, keeping aggro is like impossible. also, zevron and sten deal so much damage that it's silly!

I've been finding you absolutely need to use the warrior specific talents (threaten, taunt, ect) to control the battle, else you might as well just fight from one of the other NPCs and let your character do his thing.

Zevron gets his far-too-high of a backstab bonus, with the one thief skill, he can pretty much backstab from any direction, plus boosts to damage from his assassin skills, and having 2 weapons with a minimal penalty to attack and defense, but no penalty at all to damage = stupid damage output.

Reaver, however, is a decent spec. Not sure how well it'll complement shield skills, but its fine with dual/two handers.




Unrelatedly: Who said yes to the uhm. 'proposition' at the end.

[Macros]

christmas holidays are begging to bbe ruined
I may have to purchase

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Tapper, on 12 November 2009 - 11:00 AM, said:

As an aside, has anyone been able to both get Loghain and keep templar-boy around? Is it even possible?

Jesus, spoiler much? Now I'm not even going to finish the game. It's ruined.

Not really, but in such a story based game, we might want to start thinking about not dropping major spoilers in this thread.

[Tapper]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on 12 November 2009 - 09:49 PM, said:

Tapper, on 12 November 2009 - 11:00 AM, said:

....

Jesus, spoiler much? Now I'm not even going to finish the game. It's ruined.

Not really, but in such a story based game, we might want to start thinking about not dropping major spoilers in this thread.

sorry. It is spoilered in the post you quoted now.
Although with all due respect, the appearance of the one and the disappearance of the other has been spoiled just about everywhere, including the regular wiki entry.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 12 November 2009 - 10:07 PM

[Silencer]

Actually, RLY brings up a good point.

Spoiler Policy is that anything plot-relevant, even side quest, should be spoiled if it goes into more than general detail, please. Don't tell who dies, who lives, what you do to get x reaction, without spoiler tags.

Thanks.

[Gothos]

got the Urn questline finished today. quite fun I must say! some tough fights too.
I am using threathen but I'm missing taunt so far... got to change that asap. the 2nd reaver skill makes both of these stronger so I guess it's good for the tank.

also, I've read that Reaver and Champion are mutually exclusive (because of plots that lead to them), however I've unlocked both of these specializations on a single character. net myth much?


also, teaching Morrigan Heal made fights like 1000 times easier.

[Jusentantaka]

Gothos, on 13 November 2009 - 12:59 AM, said:

also, I've read that Reaver and Champion are mutually exclusive (because of plots that lead to them), however I've unlocked both of these specializations on a single character. net myth much?

yeah, you can learn champion from a book I'm pretty sure, but there is no Reaver book, so you can only get it the one way.

Quote

Must say, it isn't very good design to make a prestige class dependantupon a critical choice ...Reaver/Champion is directly depending on a main quest.

Why not? There are completely opposite mindsets behind the two specs and you should have to pick one.

[Sixty]

Jusentantaka, on 13 November 2009 - 01:23 AM, said:

Gothos, on 13 November 2009 - 12:59 AM, said:

also, I've read that Reaver and Champion are mutually exclusive (because of plots that lead to them), however I've unlocked both of these specializations on a single character. net myth much?

yeah, you can learn champion from a book I'm pretty sure, but there is no Reaver book, so you can only get it the one way.

Quote

Must say, it isn't very good design to make a prestige class dependantupon a critical choice ...Reaver/Champion is directly depending on a main quest.

Why not? There are completely opposite mindsets behind the two specs and you should have to pick one.

I dunno, but I just finished that quest earlier today and am now reading that I've lost my chance to get Reaver. That's pretty annoying imo, especially since I had no idea that choice was coming up.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

No sweat on the spoiler, not a huge deal. I don't read the wiki or anything first runthrough so everything will be a surprise.

[Hetan]

Macros, on 12 November 2009 - 08:51 PM, said:

christmas holidays are begging to bbe ruined
I may have to purchase

You'll love it. Everyone has giant hands

We've been trying out different character backgrounds and I have to say the coolest origin at the very beginning is Dalish elven rogue (and probably warrior is the same) - you get to interrogate and then execute some humans trespassing in the forest...second has to be the dwarven warrior, it's good to be royal

[Tapper]

Jusentantaka, on 13 November 2009 - 01:23 AM, said:

Gothos, on 13 November 2009 - 12:59 AM, said:

also, I've read that Reaver and Champion are mutually exclusive (because of plots that lead to them), however I've unlocked both of these specializations on a single character. net myth much?

yeah, you can learn champion from a book I'm pretty sure, but there is no Reaver book, so you can only get it the one way.

Quote

Must say, it isn't very good design to make a prestige class dependantupon a critical choice ...Reaver/Champion is directly depending on a main quest.

Why not? There are completely opposite mindsets behind the two specs and you should have to pick one.

I agree in so far as it concerns your main character (although to 'undermine' your position: why is there a champion book then? ), but because the thing with specialisations is that you can also choose one of your companions to learn it, I have to ultimately disagree.

Berserker/Reaver is, morally, a logical combination, for one, since they thrive on bloodlust. If your main character is more of a champion guy/girl, that does not rule out the fact that either Ohgren or Sten can make very good reavers in both attitude and spec, and I would not call either of them exactly evil so they'd still fit into a pragmatists party with a champion main character.

Morally, Champion is, afaik, not tied to virtue, just to command and inspiration, which can be used for good and bad both (after all, Loghain is a champ, too - wouldn't call him exactly good personally). Moreover, with 4 warriors in your party, whatever way you turn it, being able to have 4 rather than 3 specs between them offers pleasant diversification. Lastly, Reaver is a good Tank spec thanks to the bonuses on Taunt and Threaten on its tier 2 talent and the limited healing from t1.

For further reference, Bloodmage and Spirithealer are diametrically opposed in spirit as well, but the main character can have both if I am not mistaken (although it has consequences of a different kind).

This post has been edited by Tapper: 13 November 2009 - 10:30 AM