[Vengeance]

Peanutbutta, on 09 September 2009 - 09:44 PM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 09 September 2009 - 09:03 PM, said:

DiBs posted at 12:49 that he was sending out scum roles and the first post here is 6 minutes after that. So, either you were all like me and didn't read the sign up thread after signing up, or you are tricksome hobbits and sneaky.

Well I was the last person to sign up so I figured Dibsy would start the game pretty quickly, which is why I posted pretty early.

Tapper, on 09 September 2009 - 09:23 PM, said:

Wow, I figured I would be the last one to log in tomorrow and promptly find myself lynched for lulz and epicness. Thank god dibs started the game today.

Is there any direct way we can prevent scum from winning? All healers healing one another, for example? If any healer then dies, it means that the guy supposed to heal him, didn't, a clear scum indication - or was guarded, in which case, we also know where to look, I guess.

Dibs indicated that all scum keep their other roles. That means any scum healer would just heal their correct target and kill someone else in the meantime. Guarding would be effective except I know that Dibs is a big advocate of so-called "pairing" in which you can't guard the scum unless you guard them all, so the only way we'd catch them is if all of the scum were guards and even then, they'd just guard someone else and make it look like the guards are not scum.

I kind of think that the best possible action involves the following:

• vote night
• use all 3 vigs tonight on RIs because they are HUGE wifom right now without any extra powers
• all 3 healers healing the 3 vigs
• all 3 guards guarding each other
• We'll get 3 CFs tonight on the RIs (probably one scum in the group, although a symp would be possible), an additional 'town' CF on one of the healers or guards (from the scum night kill)
• The healers and guards can work with the 3 spent-vigs (minus whichever person dies) and you can figure out who to vote off tomorrow
• It will be 8 players left alive so that means WCS it's D-Day and you have to lynch right, but having 5-6 healers/guards still alive can help that out, even though there's a good chance AT LEAST one of them is scum, if not two.

The RI's might have a problem having joined a game to only be killed off night one.

You are being a little to fatalistic there PB. Are you sure that you are that much of a threat that you won't live to the second day.

[Peanutbutta]

No, I'm not being fatalistic so much as just trying to come up with a way to figure it out, Vengyboy. Obviously, I'm included in the group and I'm inno. The other two would have a problem if they were scum but would probably be OK with it if they weren't scum. Then again, nobody likes to offer themselves up for a lynch.

I could just as easily have said the vigs should all vig each other and the healers heal the RIs. We still end up with 3 'roleless' people on Day 2, but then everyone goes, "Lookit the scum trying to save himself," etc.

[Tapper]

Peanutbutta, on 09 September 2009 - 09:44 PM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 09 September 2009 - 09:03 PM, said:

DiBs posted at 12:49 that he was sending out scum roles and the first post here is 6 minutes after that. So, either you were all like me and didn't read the sign up thread after signing up, or you are tricksome hobbits and sneaky.

Well I was the last person to sign up so I figured Dibsy would start the game pretty quickly, which is why I posted pretty early.

Tapper, on 09 September 2009 - 09:23 PM, said:

Wow, I figured I would be the last one to log in tomorrow and promptly find myself lynched for lulz and epicness. Thank god dibs started the game today.

Is there any direct way we can prevent scum from winning? All healers healing one another, for example? If any healer then dies, it means that the guy supposed to heal him, didn't, a clear scum indication - or was guarded, in which case, we also know where to look, I guess.

Dibs indicated that all scum keep their other roles. That means any scum healer would just heal their correct target and kill someone else in the meantime. Guarding would be effective except I know that Dibs is a big advocate of so-called "pairing" in which you can't guard the scum unless you guard them all, so the only way we'd catch them is if all of the scum were guards and even then, they'd just guard someone else and make it look like the guards are not scum.

I kind of think that the best possible action involves the following:

• vote night
• use all 3 vigs tonight on RIs because they are HUGE wifom right now without any extra powers
• all 3 healers healing the 3 vigs
• all 3 guards guarding each other
• We'll get 3 CFs tonight on the RIs (probably one scum in the group, although a symp would be possible), an additional 'town' CF on one of the healers or guards (from the scum night kill)
• The healers and guards can work with the 3 spent-vigs (minus whichever person dies) and you can figure out who to vote off tomorrow
• It will be 8 players left alive so that means WCS it's D-Day and you have to lynch right, but having 5-6 healers/guards still alive can help that out, even though there's a good chance AT LEAST one of them is scum, if not two.

in reference to the bolded, underscored bit: where does it say that scum can take 2 night actions?

edit to clarify: would it not be: heal/guard/vig OR kill at night, rather than 'and'?

This post has been edited by Tapper: 09 September 2009 - 10:03 PM

[Peanutbutta]

Anyway, it's just an idea, food for thought. Maybe there's a better way to 'figure it out' although I don't see any way at this time to CI anybody.

If nothing else, take away that it's important that vigs do not vig in the day due to the lack of CF.

[Peanutbutta]

Tapper, that's an interesting point, but you forget that Dibs is very high on 'pairing.' So how would you work that in? Let's say the scum are 1 guard and 1 healer.

The guard says he's going to guard as normal. The healer says he's going to kill. What if someone guards the scum healer now... the guard isn't 'participating' in the kill action, so wouldn't the scum healer be blocked? Or would his 'pairing' keep the kill alive? Dibs has a pretty silly (IMO) view on pairing such that it's extremely favorable for scum, so I'd wager it's the latter scenario.

[Vengeance]

Peanutbutta, on 09 September 2009 - 10:03 PM, said:

Anyway, it's just an idea, food for thought. Maybe there's a better way to 'figure it out' although I don't see any way at this time to CI anybody.

If nothing else, take away that it's important that vigs do not vig in the day due to the lack of CF.

I 100% agree with that. The only people who don't care about CF's are scum.

[HoosierDaddy]

I don't know, if a vig keeps his abilitiy as scum, then technically he could day kill and then night kill. Doesn't make sense to me.

[Vengeance]

HoosierDaddy, on 09 September 2009 - 10:07 PM, said:

I don't know, if a vig keeps his abilitiy as scum, then technically he could day kill and then night kill. Doesn't make sense to me.

Exactly... If there is a scum vig then they should be the only ones who would want to kill during the day. Of course them doing so would immediately make all vigs target each other during the night as to eliminate a verified scum.

Why were you planning on vigging someone during the day and then killing at night HD??

[HoosierDaddy]

Because it sounded fun? I'm not vigging anyone. But, the possibility of being able to do so is fun!

[Tapper]

Peanutbutta, on 09 September 2009 - 10:06 PM, said:

Tapper, that's an interesting point, but you forget that Dibs is very high on 'pairing.' So how would you work that in? Let's say the scum are 1 guard and 1 healer.

The guard says he's going to guard as normal. The healer says he's going to kill. What if someone guards the scum healer now... the guard isn't 'participating' in the kill action, so wouldn't the scum healer be blocked? Or would his 'pairing' keep the kill alive? Dibs has a pretty silly (IMO) view on pairing such that it's extremely favorable for scum, so I'd wager it's the latter scenario.

I've given up second guessing the irishman after the Peter Hamilton game


However, in a word of balance: we have healers, guards and vigs, 9 roles in total. At most three of them are scum, maybe less. As a result of that, I would not be very surprised if the killers can kill independently of one another. Otherwise, they would be seriously outgunned by the vigs and lynches alone at the start of the game. This is one game where the town has a starting advantage, rather than the other way around, no matter how poisoned that advantage might be.

[Vengeance]

HoosierDaddy, on 09 September 2009 - 10:11 PM, said:

Because it sounded fun? I'm not vigging anyone. But, the possibility of being able to do so is fun!

Yeah I know... and the temptations to use it are hard to resist.

[Tapper]

I'm off to bed, see you all tomorrow, altho, as siad in sign-up, I have a hell of a day tomorrow so may be unable to check in until well into the afternoon.

[Tapper]

Vengeance, on 09 September 2009 - 10:19 PM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 09 September 2009 - 10:11 PM, said:

Because it sounded fun? I'm not vigging anyone. But, the possibility of being able to do so is fun!

Yeah I know... and the temptations to use it are hard to resist.

Malazan Mafia and vigs are like a fuse leading to a packet of C4 and a book of matches held by a pyromaniac.

[HoosierDaddy]

Like I said earlier, Vengy, after the ranting and raving I did to Sixty when he vigged night one in the YTR game, I'd be the biggest hypocrite ever if I did. I might be a drunk, and I might be an idiot. But, I'm not a hypocrite!

[Peanutbutta]

Tap Im pretty sure Dibs said 2 killers 1 symp in the signup post.

[Tapper]

Peanutbutta, on 09 September 2009 - 10:25 PM, said:

Tap Im pretty sure Dibs said 2 killers 1 symp in the signup post.

aye, but the symp could be roled, too, no?

to clarify: so a max of 3 out of the 9 roled are scum, if scum has a RI amongst the ranks, the balance roled town/ roled scum is 7-2.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 09 September 2009 - 10:29 PM

[Tapper]

and now, I really am gone for the night. ciao ciao.

[Peanutbutta]

I misunderstood you when you said 'at most 3 are scum.' You were referring to the roled players.

[HoosierDaddy]

USA qualifier on, be back later.

[Mentalist]

Oh wow, we started already?

sounds like a lovely mindfuck

PB's already sounding sympish.