[HoosierDaddy]

Forkrul Assail babies? Frightening. I will maintain my stance until I am quoted otherwise.

[Sixty]

From the PoV of Inquisitor Sever, pg. 652-653:

Quote

It was understood--it had always been understood--that no human was an equal to the Forkrul Assail. Proof was delivered a thousand times a day--and toward the end, ten thousand, as the pacification of the south kingdoms reached its blessed conclusion. Not once had the Shriven refused their submission; not once had a single pathetic human straightened in challenge. The hierarchy was unassailable.
But these children did not accept that righteous truth. In ignorance they found strength. In foolishness they found defiance.

...{snip}...

Not one Shriven would ever reach the city. And the boy with the baby would die last. By my husband's daughter's hand. Because she lives, she still lives.

The girl's PoV reinforces this by suggesting that the Quitters were coming to save her.

This post has been edited by Sixty: 01 September 2009 - 11:35 PM

[ISTN4249]

pg 777-778

Brayderal is a Forkrul Assail child. Badalle kicked the shit out of her and her FA buddies.

Quote

Badalle had shattered the Inquisitors. She had taken their own words and thrown them back, and precious blood had spilled on the shard studded ground.

...

Whatever force still lingered here was inimical to the Forkrul Assail.

...

She (Badalle) raised her voice. "Child of justice! This city is not for you! You are banished! Return to your kind, if you can. GO!"
She heard a weak cry from the tower. The Quitters had driven them from their homes, from their families. It was fitting then, that she now drive from her home a Quitter.

[HoosierDaddy]

Okay, I relinquish my stance.

Still, Forkrul Assail babies? Terrifying.

[buddhacat]

Aptorian, on Sep 1 2009, 08:39 AM, said:

Biggest WTF of the book: Icarium and his seven souls and Veed and a KCCM dragon fort becoming new warrens but not really turning into a living skykeep, that uses the Errant to make a finest and then seal some weird tear in time and space with a giant stone azath tower that came out of nothing... WTF?

My take:
Icarium was close to death. He used Errant's eye to make a Finnest for his own soul as he died. His soul/Finnest then closed the rent (similar to the K'Chain Che'Malle finnest closing the Morn rent at the end of MoI). The ground rising to "House" the Finnest was Grub's doing. He seems to like doing things with earth.

As for the Eye, it's reanimation probably resulted in Incarium's Finnest (and probably Icarium himself, should he be freed) gaining a hold over the Errant, similar to how Feather Witch had done. May be used some power from the Errant to create the Finnest, thus his unconsciousness.

No doubt we'll know more when he comes to in the next book.

[HoosierDaddy]

Agree that it was Grub who helped with the stone mountain part (and that in going through the "gate" of the Icariuwarrens Sinn and Grub got uber-powerups). But, am I the only one asking himself whether or not the Errant's Eye is enough to seal the rent the Nah'ruk caused, even with the help of the Azath?

[ISTN4249]

id imagine so. i mean yeah its a lot bigger than the one in morn...but we're talking an elder god's bodypart. who knows.

[amphibian]

Since when does a First Sword of the Empire have magical abilities? Grub having actual warren powers confuses me.

[Morgoth]

Wasn't it postulated that Grub was the child of the Chain of Dogs? An avatar, or perhaps even a god born from such an event must surely be powerful. In the same way, Sinn can be connected to any one of the whirlwind, raraku, Y'Gathan, or just 7 cities as a whole.

As for Icarium at the end. He's a Jaghut/TT mix, or so we've assumed yes? Well, the TT are warrens onto themselves, which both shows why Icarium could be so badass and also why he could hope to achieve what K'rul did. In a way, every TT is a minin K'rul.

So, to me, Icarium used the combined powers of his Jaghut heritage and the warrens he had created from himself to create a finnest of such power an Azath of unprecedentet proportions grew to encompase it. Somewhat like what happened to Raest's finnest in GotM, though on an entirely different scale. Icarium after all might possibly have been the most powerful creature we've seen. The TT have also been connected to earth in the past, so it's not such a stretch that they're connected directly to WU, which explains how the Azath grew like a stone tree out of the ground to anchor the power of Icarium, his additional souls and the eye of the Errant.

I don't think Icarium is a live in the typical sense. Rather, I think his fate was much the same as that of Kettle. I don't think he used his sould to seal the rent. I think he used his power, and the power of the errant (or possibly the errant's soul)

[drinksinbars]

nah icarum has got to be still in existence in some part as mappo is still searching for him and we know ardata has some plans surrounding mappo and icarum and how their meeting will ultimately be a deciding factor in the fate of the universe!!!

[Tapper]

amphibian, on Sep 2 2009, 08:39 AM, said:

Since when does a First Sword of the Empire have magical abilities? Grub having actual warren powers confuses me.

Maybe in the same way that other First Sword Onos Too'lan has a warren, too? And I think Dassem gained more than just a fancy title through being Hood's Mortal Sword as well, although whether or not that includes access to a warren is another thing.

[Tapper]

Best duo nominee:Queen Firehair and the warleader of the Gilk. I like the not-too-subtle innuendo and the amusement from his side, and her encouraging renouncements. Also, the Evertine legion sounds like they'll kick-ass.

Best fight scene for me was Quick Ben barbequiing the KCNR.

[Illuyankas]

Actually, Icarium being stuck inside the Telvanni Tower- oh wait, wrong fantasy series Azath supertreehouse and being able to meet Gothos again is something I wouldn't be annoyed at seeing. And it's not like there's no-one to let Mappo and co into an Azath hanging around.

[Aptorian]

It sounded to me as though Icariums soul was dying and he was going to fade when the skykeep died. Nothings ever certain, but I wouldn't be surprised if Icarium disappeared now and wasn't seen again. I would be annoyed though, since we got none of the closure for Icarium I was expecting when I began the book

[ISTN4249]

amphibian, on Sep 2 2009, 02:39 AM, said:

Since when does a First Sword of the Empire have magical abilities? Grub having actual warren powers confuses me.

Icarium's machine created a new fledgling set of warrens. Sinn and Grub were exploring them in their viewpoints I believe and are the first to really scope them out and use them.

Sinn is not mortal. During Y'Ghatan, there was mention of something being born, a child elemental/firestorm/etc. Well the firestorm happened and we were led to believe that it burned itself out. In reality that child/elemental force/godling that was born was created inside Sinn. She became a godling.

Grub is the "god" of the Chain of Dogs. He was never a mortal child, but from the worship of the Chain/Coltaine/etc he was created. These 2 are the "grandchildren" spoken of during the meeting of Errastas, Sechul, Killy, Olar and Mael.

thats my understanding at least.

Tapper, on Sep 2 2009, 05:39 AM, said:

Maybe in the same way that other First Sword Onos Too'lan has a warren, too? And I think Dassem gained more than just a fancy title through being Hood's Mortal Sword as well, although whether or not that includes access to a warren is another thing.

i think Tool having a warren is a GOTMism

ps - i think Badalle of the Snake found use of one of Icarium's new warrens which gave her the devastating lyrical prowess she used to beat down the FA in a rap battle

This post has been edited by ISTN4249: 02 September 2009 - 04:41 PM

[Tapper]

ISTN4249, on Sep 2 2009, 06:40 PM, said:

Tapper, on Sep 2 2009, 05:39 AM, said:

Maybe in the same way that other First Sword Onos Too'lan has a warren, too? And I think Dassem gained more than just a fancy title through being Hood's Mortal Sword as well, although whether or not that includes access to a warren is another thing.

i think Tool having a warren is a GOTMism

I'm not too sure about it being a GotMism, I think there was also something about his/a warren surrounding him in MoI, with the mention then that the First Sword was a truly singular being, even amongst Imass. Whether or not he uses it for sorcerous purposes is another thing entirely.

[ISTN4249]

Yeah I remember dialogue about people not understanding what it truly meant to be First Sword of the Imass (aside from master swordsman/ability to command/lead, what other powers does he possess) but on that same token why didnt Tool use his special warren/magic other than in GOTM?

[Pig Iron]

ISTN4249, on Sep 2 2009, 06:40 PM, said:

Icarium's machine created a new fledgling set of warrens. Sinn and Grub were exploring them in their viewpoints I believe and are the first to really scope them out and use them.

Sinn is not mortal. During Y'Ghatan, there was mention of something being born, a child elemental/firestorm/etc. Well the firestorm happened and we were led to believe that it burned itself out. In reality that child/elemental force/godling that was born was created inside Sinn. She became a godling.

Grub is the "god" of the Chain of Dogs. He was never a mortal child, but from the worship of the Chain/Coltaine/etc he was created. These 2 are the "grandchildren" spoken of during the meeting of Errastas, Sechul, Killy, Olar and Mael.

That's how I understood it too. Icarium sacrificed his mental health before his life in using that machine, and not only to get his memories back (the malfunctioning part might have been unexptected though). The old Krul order of warrens seems to be tangled with the whole chainining of the CG somehow, and releasing him a la Tavore's mercy project will bring the old warren magic down which is why Tavore will be very lonely there at the end. But Icarium's new deal warrens might offer something new. Grub and Sinn wandered around in there and came out with respectable (!) powers. Though both even before that are hinted to be new "grandchildren" gods. Kind of spooky how Grub doesn't remember anything before the Chain of Dogs. And Sinn is fire personified the little arsonist ...

[Tapper]

ISTN4249, on Sep 2 2009, 07:28 PM, said:

Yeah I remember dialogue about people not understanding what it truly meant to be First Sword of the Imass (aside from master swordsman/ability to command/lead, what other powers does he possess) but on that same token why didnt Tool use his special warren/magic other than in GOTM?

I think somewhere in MoI he states that he was weakened (when crossing the ice?). He more or less disintegrates physically as well over the course of that book, and it might be that he is losing powers fast thanks to that. When laying down his sword at Tattersails feet, he was First Sword no longer and thus, could well have lost the ability to call on what remained of his warren.

Lastly, none of the Bonecasters (the sole magical Imass we've seen outside of (possibly) Tool) perform a whole lot of flashy magic, do they? It seems their way to call on power is investment (Kilava doing so for Tools sword) and shapechanging into their Soletaken form primarily, not Tayschrennish 'splosions.

[MTS]

Olar Ethil battling the priests of Kartool - apparently made the Enfilade look like child's play. So yes, they have enlisted the services of Michael Bay in their battles before.

This post has been edited by Mappo's Travelling Sack: 03 September 2009 - 11:00 AM