[Silk]

Personally I feel Apsalar can be above Cottilion as Student can and does ina lot of things surpass the teacher ;o)

However all of this is pure speculation as they probably all have their pro's and con's .... and none are or will ever be on an equal footing .... so in other words its all moot and down to each persons own interpretations of things. ;o)

[clanless]

Another late poster here but If i was doing a top 4 it would be

1. Cotillion-The dude is the Patron god of assasins,which seems to somehow been overlooked by a lot. I mean it could be said he embodies what an assassin is supposed to be able to do.

2.Apsalar-She's basically Cottillion lite. Due to the possession and her retaining a portion of the memories and skills of the Rope. So I would suggest that while she knows some of the ropes tricks,she doesnt know all of them.

3.Kalam Mekhbar-This guy is amazing, shoot him full of deadly poison and he's gonna get you. Bring an Army of assassins after him and he's going to pwn them. Heck he even inspired Pearl to come up with his own mini assassin corps modeled after Kalam himself.

4. Cowl - Another awesome assassin but a guy that I have seen enough of to rank higher. But Im looking forward to reading more about him.

Note: Going off pure bodycount in the series so far Kalam would be the winner,as we've seen more kills from him then from anyone else in this series by a far margin.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

clanless, on 14 September 2009 - 10:39 PM, said:

Note: Going off pure bodycount in the series so far Kalam would be the winner,as we've seen more kills from him then from anyone else in this series by a far margin.

Ummm...respectfully disagree lol. I think we have seen him have the most pov kills, but there have been scenes where Cotillion and Apsalar take out hundreds of people in either a few minutes or a night.

[clanless]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 15 September 2009 - 04:02 AM, said:

clanless, on 14 September 2009 - 10:39 PM, said:

Note: Going off pure bodycount in the series so far Kalam would be the winner,as we've seen more kills from him then from anyone else in this series by a far margin.

Ummm...respectfully disagree lol. I think we have seen him have the most pov kills, but there have been scenes where Cotillion and Apsalar take out hundreds of people in either a few minutes or a night.

yea thats what I was trying to say. My bad missphrased that. But after Kallor Kalam is my next favorite character in the season.

[Keyjell]

A horribly late reply, but I'm bored and I got to thinking. Kalam is already a really awesome assassin, even without magic on his side. But I wonder if he will have changed when we see him again. Seeing as ST saving him means we get more of him, hopefully. But ST and Cot being sneaky and all I wonder if they are going to give Kalam and edge if he makes a return. Shadow dancin' anyone? Perhaps some other tricks Cot may have up his sleeve.

[Eispeis]

Keyjell, on 06 October 2009 - 10:57 AM, said:

A horribly late reply, but I'm bored and I got to thinking. Kalam is already a really awesome assassin, even without magic on his side. But I wonder if he will have changed when we see him again. Seeing as ST saving him means we get more of him, hopefully. But ST and Cot being sneaky and all I wonder if they are going to give Kalam and edge if he makes a return. Shadow dancin' anyone? Perhaps some other tricks Cot may have up his sleeve.

Since Apsalar already is a Shadow Dancer, and Kalam relies more on brute force than finesse (though he is dexterous as hell) I don't think he'll emerge from the Azath as a male equivalent of Apsalar. If he reemerges from the Azath at all (seems likely) I wager he'll still be the same old Kalam sans poison.

TTH spoiler

Spoiler

The only thing I base this on is Rallick coming out of the Azath in TtH

[Keyjell]

Eispeis, on 06 October 2009 - 02:00 PM, said:

Keyjell, on 06 October 2009 - 10:57 AM, said:

A horribly late reply, but I'm bored and I got to thinking. Kalam is already a really awesome assassin, even without magic on his side. But I wonder if he will have changed when we see him again. Seeing as ST saving him means we get more of him, hopefully. But ST and Cot being sneaky and all I wonder if they are going to give Kalam and edge if he makes a return. Shadow dancin' anyone? Perhaps some other tricks Cot may have up his sleeve.

Since Apsalar already is a Shadow Dancer, and Kalam relies more on brute force than finesse (though he is dexterous as hell) I don't think he'll emerge from the Azath as a male equivalent of Apsalar. If he reemerges from the Azath at all (seems likely) I wager he'll still be the same old Kalam sans poison.

TTH spoiler

Spoiler

The only thing I base this on is Rallick coming out of the Azath in TtH

I was basing my "hope" not on him being dragged into an azath so much, but rather who he was dragged in by. Shadowthrone usually has an agenda, and I doubt this is any different. If he comes out with lasers for eyes has yet to be seen, but it would be cool...in my mind anyway.

This post has been edited by Keyjell: 06 October 2009 - 03:46 PM

[poeg]

Keyjell, on 06 October 2009 - 03:46 PM, said:

Eispeis, on 06 October 2009 - 02:00 PM, said:

Keyjell, on 06 October 2009 - 10:57 AM, said:

A horribly late reply, but I'm bored and I got to thinking. Kalam is already a really awesome assassin, even without magic on his side. But I wonder if he will have changed when we see him again. Seeing as ST saving him means we get more of him, hopefully. But ST and Cot being sneaky and all I wonder if they are going to give Kalam and edge if he makes a return. Shadow dancin' anyone? Perhaps some other tricks Cot may have up his sleeve.

Since Apsalar already is a Shadow Dancer, and Kalam relies more on brute force than finesse (though he is dexterous as hell) I don't think he'll emerge from the Azath as a male equivalent of Apsalar. If he reemerges from the Azath at all (seems likely) I wager he'll still be the same old Kalam sans poison.

TTH spoiler

Spoiler

The only thing I base this on is Rallick coming out of the Azath in TtH

I was basing my "hope" not on him being dragged into an azath so much, but rather who he was dragged in by. Shadowthrone usually has an agenda, and I doubt this is any different. If he comes out with lasers for eyes has yet to be seen, but it would be cool...in my mind anyway.

Incorrect as Kalam relies on his reaction time and makes "use" of his strength which is a vast difference. To take that to another level places him well above Apsalar or in fact any opponent not using an area effect attack such as a grenade or mystical equivalent of such. Taken or pushed to an even further extreme, were Kalam able to see even seconds into the future, he would become neigh unstoppable in close quarter combat. There is a lot to be used by tying him to the Azath's near negation of time.

[Dancer+]

I'm a bit out of practice at the moment.

Dancer, doubt if he'd put himself top.

Spoiler

A lot of people have made good responses. I like the end of Disc one's post and generally agree with Silencer about the power/skill of the assassin's.

I think we've come to a solid conclusion about what an assassin is i.e. Rake/Gothos/Raest not included. I think the ordering of the lists are difficult but I would go for something like:

• Cotillion
  
• Apsalar
  
• Laseen
  
• Kalam
  
• Topper
  
• Cowl
  
• Etc.

With honourable mentions going to Pearl, Rallick, Cutter, Ocelot, Taya and Wolverine.

It's hard to classify certain characters who we barely see like Serrat and Vorcan.

P.S. Gothos was King of Tiddlywinks but conceded Rake was clearly his superior at Hungry Hippos and Top Trumps (The Crippled God, P.434).

[Ben Adephon Delat]

I don't really see Laseen as vastly superior to Kalam. I don't think Kalam would survive the fight but I don't see her walking away either. Mutually assured destruction is what I'm going for should they clash.

[Silencer]

Well, considering at this point that one is dead and the other lying in an Azath, I can't see us ever getting a straight answer to that.

What really struck me on a re-read of NoK was Dancer. It was just him, Kellanved and Ash, against Surly, Topper, Possum, and about a dozen other Claws. No magic allowed. During that fight, Dancer wounded Topper and Possum, killed half of the rest of the Claws, and successfully protected Kellanved at the same time. Sure, it's debatable as to whether Surly/Topper were gunning for keeps, but she had no way of letting the others know the plan, that'd ruin the whole thing. And that...for a mortal, with someone to protect, and no magic at hand...that is...it just made me sit back and think it all through again. Pre-ascension Dancer was fucking kick ass. Like power level over 9000 already. D:

And is that DANCER I see posting above? By Dessembrae man! (teehee, see what I did there? ) Where have you been?

P.S. the game project is actually moving forward, literally being put together now. Got a small group of programmers/level designers/so forth and we're making the thing. ^^

[Dancer+]

I've just been busy with other things i.e. work and social life. I always seem to have a two year lull with things.

The game is being developed, impressive! Do you still need some input? I'd be interested to see how far things have advanced.

[Silencer]

We *always* want more input, Dancer.
As for advanced, we've got the location, the engine, and so forth, all sorted...and have actually started making the worldspace, and model assets. ^^

And good to have you back around. I just finished up my exams, so I've been a bit quieter recently too. XD