[Morgoth]

the difference between those other three and D'rek though is that D'rek was way too certain of my allignment yesterday. She could not have known and I definitly didn't play like an angel either.

[Slick Mongoose]

drinksinbars, on Aug 5 2009, 09:10 AM, said:

Slick Mongoose, on Aug 5 2009, 09:09 AM, said:

Has everyone been on who might counter Bent?

i think so.

Whoops, Tapper hasn't.

[Slick Mongoose]

Shinrei, on Aug 5 2009, 09:01 AM, said:

Well, it seems obdi and dibs would disagree with you, dk. The one thing I agree with D'rek on is lynching is important. If I'd been here I would have removed from bent and voted obdi (or morgoth if it had swung that way). Someone will now say "Shin, you sound like your willing to kill evrahbahdy!" but I think a lynch is important.

I view Obdi as suspect, but for now I will

Vote Slick Mongoose

for slipping back under the radar. My meta argument to add to what I said about him earlier is he is used to a more rough and tumble style of mafia, so aside from that opening back and forth with Obdi, he's been playing...tight. And he could use some pressure.

Since the lynch i've pretty much just been waiting for counter reveals.

[Morgoth]

Slick Mongoose, on Aug 5 2009, 10:19 AM, said:

Shinrei, on Aug 5 2009, 09:01 AM, said:

Well, it seems obdi and dibs would disagree with you, dk. The one thing I agree with D'rek on is lynching is important. If I'd been here I would have removed from bent and voted obdi (or morgoth if it had swung that way). Someone will now say "Shin, you sound like your willing to kill evrahbahdy!" but I think a lynch is important.

I view Obdi as suspect, but for now I will

Vote Slick Mongoose

for slipping back under the radar. My meta argument to add to what I said about him earlier is he is used to a more rough and tumble style of mafia, so aside from that opening back and forth with Obdi, he's been playing...tight. And he could use some pressure.

Since the lynch i've pretty much just been waiting for counter reveals.

so if there are none you'll just lounge about?

[Shinrei]

I don't think I've ever "bared my teeth" in any mafia games I've played.

[Slick Mongoose]

Morgoth, on Aug 5 2009, 09:21 AM, said:

Slick Mongoose, on Aug 5 2009, 10:19 AM, said:

Shinrei, on Aug 5 2009, 09:01 AM, said:

Well, it seems obdi and dibs would disagree with you, dk. The one thing I agree with D'rek on is lynching is important. If I'd been here I would have removed from bent and voted obdi (or morgoth if it had swung that way). Someone will now say "Shin, you sound like your willing to kill evrahbahdy!" but I think a lynch is important.

I view Obdi as suspect, but for now I will

Vote Slick Mongoose

for slipping back under the radar. My meta argument to add to what I said about him earlier is he is used to a more rough and tumble style of mafia, so aside from that opening back and forth with Obdi, he's been playing...tight. And he could use some pressure.

Since the lynch i've pretty much just been waiting for counter reveals.

so if there are none you'll just lounge about?

Until Tapper gets here, pretty much.

If he doesn't counter, i'll get to rereading.

[drinksinbars]

Slick Mongoose, on Aug 5 2009, 09:18 AM, said:

drinksinbars, on Aug 5 2009, 09:10 AM, said:

Slick Mongoose, on Aug 5 2009, 09:09 AM, said:

Has everyone been on who might counter Bent?

i think so.

Whoops, Tapper hasn't.

forgot about him.

[drinksinbars]

@slick - would it not be useful to run off the assumption he wont counter just to save time?

[Slick Mongoose]

drinksinbars, on Aug 5 2009, 09:46 AM, said:

@slick - would it not be useful to run off the assumption he wont counter just to save time?

I was assuming he'd be here soon, he was here around now yesterday.

[Tapper]

drinksinbars, on Aug 5 2009, 10:46 AM, said:

@slick - would it not be useful to run off the assumption he wont counter just to save time?

I won't counter, I'm not a finder.

Gotta say, last night was a fuck-up of monumental proportions - I skipped a few post-lynch pages so am not entirely up to speed as to what has happened since, but I cringed several times. Amateur night. I'll have to re-read it like 2-3 times, but I think that with the way votes and cases or what passes for them are going to fly, combined with the stuff surrounding the lynch, it is safe to say that for future reference we now have a gold mine of information.

Night out with Venge and his lady was great. I'm pretty hungover and if I remember it well enough through the alcoholic vapours in my brain, I promised to show them the town I work in, so if they call I'm out again. For now, I'll go back to bed, arrived home only at 5.45 this morning.

[Slick Mongoose]

OK. So either Bent is telling the truth, or there isn't a finder.

[Slick Mongoose]

I didn't want to post suspicions of Bent before everyone had a chance to counter, because I didn't want to encourage a fake reveal (which I probably would have believed).

But I still don't really trust Bent. It's possible that there is no finder.

Bent, on Aug 4 2009, 07:11 PM, said:

I thought I might, but hes calmed down considerably so no, I'll keep my vote where it is. If it gets me lnched, oh well, but Id rather not give scum the free inno lynch.I don't think hes scum, so no, I wont vote him.

This does not look to me like a post a finder would make. Outright refusing to vote for Obdi? Would rather be lynched (and, by extension, forced to reveal) than vote for someone he can't know is innocent?

Really?

[drinksinbars]

i think i would like some opinion from bent and obdi on the matter.

remove vote

until we hear from them.

[Shinrei]

whee! I forgot about the August 5th fireworks in my wife's hometown.

I don't know about everywhere else, but the fireworks here in Japan blow the ones I watched as a kid in the US out of the water.

I'll be back before deadline, but probably drunk. Maybe I'll bare teeth for DK then.

[Morgoth]

sounds more than a bit risky to reveal day 1 that you're a finder if you're not. If you're a killer why would you possibly risk the presence of a real finder? And if you're a symp, how can you trust that the killer know and thus wont kill you? Now, it's possible to gamble for a healer and then claim your master is innocent, thus proving yourself to be the symp to the killers. However if there is a finder about you've basically just pointed a big fat finger at a killer, revealing him to the world

[dktorode]

Morgoth, on Aug 5 2009, 12:26 PM, said:

sounds more than a bit risky to reveal day 1 that you're a finder if you're not. If you're a killer why would you possibly risk the presence of a real finder? And if you're a symp, how can you trust that the killer know and thus wont kill you? Now, it's possible to gamble for a healer and then claim your master is innocent, thus proving yourself to be the symp to the killers. However if there is a finder about you've basically just pointed a big fat finger at a killer, revealing him to the world

desperate times sometimes call for desperate measures
Bent could be a killer gambling on the fact that there is no finder this game...he was afterall very close to getting lynched.

But you are right, it is all highly unlikely and i am leaning heavily towards believing his reveal.

*back to work*

[Bent]

Slick Mongoose, on Aug 5 2009, 05:26 AM, said:

I didn't want to post suspicions of Bent before everyone had a chance to counter, because I didn't want to encourage a fake reveal (which I probably would have believed).

But I still don't really trust Bent. It's possible that there is no finder.

Bent, on Aug 4 2009, 07:11 PM, said:

I thought I might, but hes calmed down considerably so no, I'll keep my vote where it is. If it gets me lnched, oh well, but Id rather not give scum the free inno lynch.I don't think hes scum, so no, I wont vote him.

This does not look to me like a post a finder would make. Outright refusing to vote for Obdi? Would rather be lynched (and, by extension, forced to reveal) than vote for someone he can't know is innocent?

Really?

Slick, this is probably the scummiest thing I have seen to date.

Not because you question me, thats totally acceptable, however, you are questioning me for not wanting to lynch someone I think is inno. In the past, anytime you stepped out and "defended" someone, you were always called their symp. We moved beyond that, its ok to stick your neck out there for someone, if I am wrong and Obis scum, well, I'll pay for it. But IMO worst case he is a symp. He comes back inno either way. So it leaves us with nothing to lynch him. Other than getting rid of a seemingly distraction (which I don't see) He thought Morgy was scum, he was wrong, it happens.

Anyway, I'll be back in an hour or two to discuss further.

[D'rek]

Shinrei, on Aug 4 2009, 08:18 PM, said:

Sorry for the triple post.

D'rek's reread confirms my impressions about the mother hen thing. My problem is it entirely directed at Obdi. She seems to be ignoring everything/one else. Bulldog one thing at the benefit of the rest - pushing someone who likes to get riled up when pushed. Means D'rek could be a symp.

Slick? He had the day 1 thing with Obdi too and dropped from notice after that. I got the impression that a lot of his conversation in the thread wasn't really conversation - he seems to be picking his way through asking questions, answering questions but it's more like he's putting up an illusion of conversation. I wonder if D'rek put on the 'hush dear' routine on Obdi and Slick used that to slip back from notice?

Slick killer and D'rek symp? I didn't think this before my reread, but the possible connection clicked in while I was reading.

Regardless of the content, I found this post hilarious! Though it does make me feel all old and stuff (which I'm not!). You're probably right Shin that I did over-focus on Obdi, but that's pretty much what Obdi was trying to do - steal the spotlight repeatetdly and keep it always on him, over and over again.

[D'rek]

Morgoth, on Aug 5 2009, 03:02 AM, said:

anyways, I notice it wasn't particularly clear, but I suspect D'rek because it's my belief that it's typically only scum who can be certain enough of someone's innocence on day 1 they refuse to vote for the player on that basis.

A good night's sleep didn't change my mind
vote D'rek

Here's how it went down (in my head anyway): Bent and Obdi to me looked pretty scummy. They each proclaimed that they fully believed the other was inno and were so convinced that they would not vote each other under any circumstances. Then they went and both voted on you, Morgy. Convinced that their antics were unfalteringly stupid, I proclaimed my own holier-than-thou and said I wouldn't vote for you because I was just so sure of your innocence, the idea being to use their own ridiculous declaration against them and their attempt to lynch you. Did I really know you were inno? No, there was no way that I could, but the two of them acting so pairish on-thread and both going after you made it pretty impressionable to me that you weren't. Plus it felt good to smack Obdi with his own drivel.

And of course, that lead to Obdi's hypocrisy in that he got mad at people for not voting you when he himself refused to vote Bent and supported Bent's declaration not to vote him, which DiBs has already called Obdi out on.

[Slick Mongoose]

Bent, on Aug 5 2009, 12:13 PM, said:

you are questioning me for not wanting to lynch someone I think is inno.

Not exactly......

Do you not think that lynching someone you thought was innocent (but have no way of knowing) was better than being forced to reveal?

I accept that you think Obdi was innocent. fine, but in that situation myself, i'd have lynched him. He had more chance of being evil than you, from your point of view (if you're innocent). And it means you don't have to reveal.

Quote

In the past, anytime you stepped out and "defended" someone, you were always called their symp. We moved beyond that, its ok to stick your neck out there for someone, if I am wrong and Obis scum, well, I'll pay for it.

OK to stick your neck out for someone, yes. It's perfectly OK to defend other people. But to go from there to being completely unwilling to vote for someone, if it's you or them, is something else. Particularly as it loses us a lynch, if there aren't any heals.

You've explained your thought processes from the point of view of a RI, but not from the point of view of a finder. You know, the most important role in the game. The one that needs to stay alive.

And I don't think you explained why you think what I said was scummy.