[lobo the wolfman]

I've started a Metallica thread on the advice of one Slumgullion Spitteler to avoid spamming the Music thread, (Sorry about that mate) to post news about the band for the fans on the forums, and to encourage discussion about Metallica because i think few bands in their career have divided opinion like they have.

From the glory days of Kill' em All to their handling of Napster in later years, people have called them either the greatest band ever or money hungry sell-outs. So please, feel free to post thoughts or news about Metallica here, talk about different songs or concerts of theirs you have seen whatever. Even if you don't like them and you want to post why, go ahead.

I for one think that the way they dealt with Napster was good. I would hate for bands to have to stop making music due to the fact that some people found it easy to download a bands entire back catalog in a matter of hours. Still with torrents now days it's a moot issue, but it's good to see someone standing and defending their creations from theft.

To those people who say that Metallica has gone to shit after St Anger, then give Death Magnetic a good listening too. Especially Broken, Beat & Scarred, All Nightmare Long and My Apocalypse.

In case anyone missed it, Metallica was inducted into the Rock & Roll hall of frame a few mouths ago. Cliff Burtons dad made a small speech, and Jason Newstead was also honored on the night. Jason even jammed with the rest of them at the end. Here is the link

http://fuse.tv/videos/shows/rock-hall/

Also there is going to be two new live dvds one at Nimes, France, which will be released about October, and another in Mexico City, Mexico.

[Tiste Simeon]

Megadeth > Metallica.

The end.

[Mr.James]

Tiste Simeon, on Jul 31 2009, 11:54 AM, said:

Megadeth > Metallica.

The end.

You sir, are a HERETIC...BURN HIM .....FLAY HIS SKIN!!!!!
The day dave mustaine -as there is no such thing as Megadeth, only Dave Mustaine- is recognized as better than Metallica is the day the world descends in armageddon...

[Macros]

Tallica should have quit after ride the lightning, or the black album. you decide, but they jumped the shark long ago and the latest offering is tripe.
I have little or no respect for them, although they aparently don't do bad gigs ever, so i'd still pay to see them live

[Slow Ben]

I LOVE everything up to Justice and its one of my favorite albums of all time. I liked the black album and thought the rest was ok.

Their not terrible, the new musics not bad by any means, but the first 4 albums were just some of the best music ever.

And Mac, I'm going to assume its a typo that you said they should stop after Lightning. Which would have meant no Master or Justice.

[Macros]

I did say you could decide.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

First four albums are amazing and peerless. The black album has a few amazing songs, but the rest of the album shows signs of the beginning after the end. After that album they promptly jumped the shark and have done nothing relevant since. I used to love this band. I still love the first 4.25 albums. The rest however ranged from uninspiring and boring to plain bad.

I'm not even getting on them for selling out. They did, but that's forgivable if you're still producing quality music. They aren't.

Justice is still one of the greatest albums of any genre ever. One is possibly the best song ever written.

[Tiste Simeon]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Jul 31 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

I'm not even getting on them for selling out. They did, but that's forgivable if you're still producing quality music. They aren't.

I'm tired so I'm not going to write a cohesive argument... But no, it is not forgivable. Selling out is (in my humble opinion) cheapening the kick assery of metal, and turning it into the lame money grabbing soulless crap that dominates more or less every other genre of music... I would write more (and trust me I could go on for ages) but like I said I need sleep...

@Mr.James - Dave Mustaine is better than Kirk Hammett (who, by all accounts appears to be a bit of an idiot... ) and while One is an astonishing song, Hangar 18 beats it hands down every time.
Don't get me wrong, I love a bunch of their songs, and S&M is one of my favourite live albums, but seriously, I think they are overhyped and overrated. I appreciate them for what they contributed to the worldwide metal scene but I won't really go beyond that.

This post has been edited by Tiste Simeon: 31 July 2009 - 11:10 PM

[Mr.James]

Oh I know Dave is better than Kirk and that's a fact....but Mustaine is an idiot and a jerk!!
I mean all megadeth is good for is quick solos and fast riffs, metallica's songs -except a few ones- are wayyyy deeper than megadeth's. I mean you cant find a megadeth song deep enough like One or Fade to Black except maybe for Time the Beggining and Toute le Monde but even those can't compare. There is no way you can compare One to Hangar, One is a landmark of metal about suffering and victims of war and Hangar is a fast song about area 51 with no depth beyond that whatsoever ...if you want to compare Hangar to a metallica song, Blackened is a better candidate. And I would still listen to Blackened over Hangar every day
even some of the newer songs which are dubbed comercial and mainstream are awesome...The Unforgiven II got me through some very rough times in my life...and this is just one example out of many...
plus Dave's vocals are SHIIIIIITE...James' voice is one of the -if not THE- best voices in metal!!

and I'm not going to delve into the whole -THEY SOLD OUT, LETS BREAK THEIR CD'S- thing as I think it's pointless!!

but I'll say this, Holy wars....And the punishment due has one of the best solos I've ever heard -the only part I listen to actually- I have to admit, Dave is a beast on the guitar...

This post has been edited by Mr.James: 31 July 2009 - 11:41 PM

[lobo the wolfman]

Blah, Dave Shitstain has put some good song, but his whinny voice, and uninspired music just doesn't do it for me. Besides Mr James hit the nail on the head about how Metallica's song have more depth to them.

How did Metallica 'sellout'? by doing the Black, Load and Reload? Sure it's not the same as their early stuff, but at least they where trying something new, how is that selling out? Also different doesn't mean bad. If they had stuck to making the same albums over and over again it would get pretty stale, pretty fast. Soon they would have been the metal equivalent of Linkin Park or Nickleback, putting out albums just for the hell of it.

At least Metallica had the balls to be different, and to be good enough to pull it off.

[Arthur Dayne]

Have to add to this. After having the priveledge of seing them a number of times live including one very small, candid acoustic performance impromptu at a McDonalds the morning after a show in Arizona as I was heading to the airport, I can honestly say that after shaking hands with all the guys (unfortunately Jason Nerdstead) they will always be the same band I rocked to growing up regardless of how many songs they make trying to relive the glory of their first couple albums. I remember blaring Four Horsemen while driving 100mph down the highway until my speakers almost popped and to this day it means more to me to hear almost any Metallica song than nearly 100% of the true sellout trash that is out today. That being said, St. Anger was mostly trash. Sorry guys. I know it when I hear it. No true guitar solos in an entire album = sad.

This post has been edited by Arthur Dayne: 31 July 2009 - 11:58 PM

[Mr.James]

lobo the wolfman, on Jul 31 2009, 11:40 PM, said:

Blah, Dave Shitstain has put some good song, but his whinny voice, and uninspired music just doesn't do it for me. Besides Mr James hit the nail on the head about how Metallica's song have more depth to them.

How did Metallica 'sellout'? by doing the Black, Load and Reload? Sure it's not the same as their early stuff, but at least they where trying something new, how is that selling out? Also different doesn't mean bad. If they had stuck to making the same albums over and over again it would get pretty stale, pretty fast. Soon they would have been the metal equivalent of Linkin Park or Nickleback, putting out albums just for the hell of it.

At least Metallica had the balls to be different, and to be good enough to pull it off.

what he said...I listened to MegaDeth's new album, United Abominations?? it's the same thing as all his music and Death Magnetic is lightyears ahead of it. and you don't see Dave and his posse of ever changing band members doing something like S&M because his flat 2D music coupled with his 12 yr old girl shrieking voice would sound horrible with an orchestra...awefull....

on a side note, has anyone played the guitar hero Metallica game? I've been meaning to get it but I haven't gotten the chance yet..

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I think the idea of them selling out comes not from them trying to do something different, it was them trying to do something more mainstream. The vast majority of load and reload you couldn't even headbang to, if you were inclined to do such a thing. It should be an option when listening to metal or even hard rock. That shit could have been on the radio, and I'm not talking about the cool metal station either. At the same time they went through a total overhaul of their image (Dear Metallica: No one believes that you ALL cut your hair off at the same time because it was messed up from performing. It was a calculated effort to appeal to the mainstream masses, and we all know it.) Then came the napster thing, where they at least appeared to be directly attacking their fans so as to make more money. Also, they by this time had released about 5 boxed sets and countless videos about the band, something they had previously declared was something they would never do. Now they have guitar hero out? Not that i blame them, but shit, that's just not metal.

And that is why Metallica has been accused of selling out. All would have been forgiven though if they were still putting out quality music. They aren't.

[masan's saddle]

Don't get me wrong, as I stated in the music thread the other day, I like Metallica, but like a few others it would appear, I just can't be arsed with anything after Justice. I'm not sure they "sold out" completley but Napster, box sets, merchandise...meh, everyone does it but it is usually indicative of a push towards mainstream acceptance, cash and corporate cocksuckery ( Metallica TM)

Yes musicians "grow" and wish to experiment with other sounds and media but the reason people liked Metallica was they were new (at the time), fresh, one of the godfathers of thrash and completley anti mainstream. To see them doing gooey ballads and orchestra collaborations was just....., wrong. Do bands strive to become "mainstream" and accepted by the masses or does it just happen over time ? Think about that when you look at some of the personality traits shown over the years by messrs Hetfield and Ulrich. Watching Lars Ulrich talking about how much cash he'd made off the sale of his art "investments" on that movie thingy (Some kind of Monster ?) was plain weird.

I saw them on the Justice tour in 88' and they were IMO at their Zenith. They had been together as an entity for 7-8 years and lyrically and in terms of "sound", they were on top of their game with Justice. That album is HEAVY and funky (although I think Master of Puppets is the "classic" album) Not many bands stay at the top of their game for more than 10 years and whilst I can accept it is difficult to stay creative whilst satisfying old fans and new, sometimes it is" better to burn out than to fade away."

[lobo the wolfman]

In regards to Load and Reload, you don't have to be able to headbang to metal or hard rock in order to enjoy it. Musically the albums where different and do sound more radio friendly, but the lyrics are just as dark as anything you would find on their early albums, listen to how sinister Until It Sleeps is, or how angry Prince Charming is. If they had truly sold out and gone soft, they would have singing about butterflys and puppies. And yes by the way you can headbang to it, quite easily in fact

With Napster, they weren't trying to attack their fans, they made no money out of it, and all law suits where dropped when Napster agreed to block all users who where 'sharing' (stealing) music. It was never about money, they only wanted people to stop stealing their songs, that's fair isn't it? Wouldn't you want to protect some thing that you created? Would you expect Steven Erikson to send a year writing a book and then just to give it away to eveyone? Wouldn't SE have the right to be pissed off if Pat was making copies of his ARC and sending them to people? Or doesn't that imply to Metallica because they already have made enough money? Same goes for Lars and his paintings, shouldn't he be allowed to make money off something he created?

The doco Some kind of Monster was meant to be warts and all, should they be blamed because you didn't like how much like real people they where?


They never said never with the videos, they just didn't want to have to water down any thing that they did. When they realized they wouldn't have too, they made One and they made it as dark and as distributing as they waned too. Same with the rest off their stuff.

Guitar Hero? well you got me on that one.

The songs on Death Magnetic is just as good as any thing on And Justice For All and live, they are just as good as they ever have been, and i can't wait to see them again next year.

[Illuyankas]

I'd punch Lars in the gargantuan quivering vagina.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

lobo the wolfman, on Jul 31 2009, 07:30 PM, said:

In regards to Load and Reload, you don't have to be able to headbang to metal or hard rock in order to enjoy it. Musically the albums where different and do sound more radio friendly, but the lyrics are just as dark as anything you would find on their early albums, listen to how sinister Until It Sleeps is, or how angry Prince Charming is. If they had truly sold out and gone soft, they would have singing about butterflys and puppies. And yes by the way you can headbang to it, quite easily in fact

I could care less about how dark the lyrics are. A lot of them are actually quite silly. The tempo of the music is so slow and lethargic it's boring. While you can technically haedbang to anything, you'd look silly doing it to this crap because your head would be moving so slowly you'd look more like you were fellating the invisible man than rocking out.

Quote

With Napster, they weren't trying to attack their fans, they made no money out of it, and all law suits where dropped when Napster agreed to block all users who where 'sharing' (stealing) music. It was never about money, they only wanted people to stop stealing their songs, that's fair isn't it? Wouldn't you want to protect some thing that you created? Would you expect Steven Erikson to send a year writing a book and then just to give it away to eveyone? Wouldn't SE have the right to be pissed off if Pat was making copies of his ARC and sending them to people? Or doesn't that imply to Metallica because they already have made enough money? Same goes for Lars and his paintings, shouldn't he be allowed to make money off something he created?

Sure it's fair. Like i said, I don't blame them for a lot of what they did, but the question was asked of why people think they sold out, and this is one of the reasons. Is what they did logical? Yes. Is is metal? No. While they weren't making money by going after Napster, the reason they were going after Napster was to not lose money. Again, fair but hardly metal.

Quote

The doco Some kind of Monster was meant to be warts and all, should they be blamed because you didn't like how much like real people they where?

Never saw the entire thing. The parts I did see though, ther were being a bunch of whiny bitches. Real, yes, but again, not metal.

Quote

They never said never with the videos,

Yes they did. Just because you didn't see the particular interview I did doesn't mean it didn't happen. And no, I can't give you my source, don't remember, but it happened. I'm not talking about music videos, I'm talking about videos just about the band. Merchandising for the sake of merchandising. I have no problem with music videos, except when they suck. Some of their videos are brilliant, some kind of suck.

Quote

The songs on Death Magnetic is just as good as any thing on And Justice For All

No, no they aren't.

Quote

and live, they are just as good as they ever have been, and i can't wait to see them again next year.

I haven't seen them live for a long time. I have no doubt they can still throw a hell of a concert. Problem is, half of their music at this point is subpar.

[Zanth13]

but... but... Metallica has redeemed themselves no?

they have made good music again... right?

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Mlahvvymkxc

and

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=TB6RJmz38o0

whats with the hate....

[Macros]

must contain rage.



fuck it.

I hate metal fans, they have to be the most superiour attituded cocks on the planet.
Quick newsflash for you, you'd better sit down, this may come as a shock to you. Metallica and practically every other band on the planet sold out the second they penned their first contract. They went from playing music for music to music for money. They just want to get paid dawg, I hate tallica's new stuff because its unispired trash, not because they "sold out".
Its just not metal to cut your hair? Why the fuck not? That has to be the sillyist thing I've ever heard, why do metal fans think they are superiour? Is it simply inconcievable that other genres have deep meanings aswell?
Seriously this has pissed me off for years. Idiots that stop listening to bands because they 'sold out' (lars was acosted in the street after their first video and told he was a sell out for making it)
Heres the inside scoop for you all, people are greedy, always have been, metallica rode the metal wave, and when it crested they tried (unsucessfully imo) to jump to .the next wave of metal popularity, new metal, it was hitting its dizzying mainstream heights and they wanted a piece of the action. Enter sandman hand run its course and worn out the popular acclaim and they new to keep themselves in with the money spending masses a change was required. It had nothing to do with experimentation, it was backwards step creativly. a leap infact, but i'd wager the man with the fat cheque book soothed their aching concience.
Bands get signed to make the record label money.
Bands sìgn to get rici and get laid, get over it. metal is not on a higher plane than the rest of it, it just thinks it is

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

As I've said repeaedly, my only real bitch is that their music now sucks. somone asked why it is thought they sold out, I provided the reasons why people think they sold out. none of those things are reallyrelevant to me, other than the fact that they make subpar music.

Oh, and I'm not a metal fan.