[Gamelon]

Fener, on Jul 20 2009, 03:38 PM, said:

....
....
....

That's why scum tends to kill low-posters in the beginning of the game, they tend to be the people hiding the most.

I disagree with this statement. As scum I kill for two reasons: (1) to kill threats and (2) to cause confusion amongst inno, and innos themselves typically bring out low-posters. Low-posters aren't threats because they have no credibility until they start posting, and if not they have to reveal to get credibility.

[Silanah]

Eloth, on Jul 20 2009, 09:41 PM, said:

Fener, on Jul 20 2009, 11:38 AM, said:

Eloth, on Jul 20 2009, 12:31 PM, said:

Barghast was a day one choice, and thus was more down to bad luck than a reasonabe case, so dont foist that crap on me

similarly both scum never had time to get past day one, so we have no idea how they would play properly, but presumably the other two will have learnt from their mistakes.

and yes i do; there's less chance of being hit on a lynch train, isn't there?
and its mighty suspicious that both of the most vocal players aren't yet dead.
a typical scum move is to take out the biggest threats, lynching willynilly as you have been advocating would make you a threat, because statistically you would have to hit scum
moreover, you aren't causing a fuss, which would be the only reason to leave you alive; to divert attention from scummy behaviour

Nice card to pull out on Barghast. Hindsight is 20/20 right? I love people who act so self-righteous for not getting on Day 1 trains. Yes, we lynched an innocent on Day 1, that's how this game almost always works. Last time you had an amazing Day 1 case was... (P.S. you voted Silanah, along with Emurlahn, the scum)

If you think the other two scum would learn from their mistakes, you are basically claiming that two people will have different play styles. What about my playstyle has changed all game? (Your style is pretty much the same, too, FYI.)

Why the hell else do you think Silanah is still alive? He's a lynchable target! That's scum 101. You don't kill lynchable targets. Vocal players tend to find themselves getting lynched between Days 3 and 5 of most games. Even if Silanah is scum, you really think the other scum player is going to kill someone that's likely to get lynched? Typical scum moves ARE to take out the biggest threats and mouthy players are not necessarily big threats. That's why scum tends to kill low-posters in the beginning of the game, they tend to be the people hiding the most.

my style DOES change during games, and you'd be blind not to notice it. usually the thing that gets me lynched
and mouthy players are not biggest threats, agreed.
but, however, pushy players ARE threats.

but to the killers much more than to the innos. The innos aren't the ones trying to hide. the innos aren't hurt by pushy players. How would they be?

[Eloth]

Gamelon, on Jul 20 2009, 12:46 PM, said:

Fener, on Jul 20 2009, 03:38 PM, said:

....
....
....

That's why scum tends to kill low-posters in the beginning of the game, they tend to be the people hiding the most.

I disagree with this statement. As scum I kill for two reasons: (1) to kill threats and (2) to cause confusion amongst inno, and innos themselves typically bring out low-posters. Low-posters aren't threats because they have no credibility until they start posting, and if not they have to reveal to get credibility.

lot of sense in this statement

[Anthras]

Eloth, on Jul 20 2009, 07:48 PM, said:

Gamelon, on Jul 20 2009, 12:46 PM, said:

Fener, on Jul 20 2009, 03:38 PM, said:

....
....
....

That's why scum tends to kill low-posters in the beginning of the game, they tend to be the people hiding the most.

I disagree with this statement. As scum I kill for two reasons: (1) to kill threats and (2) to cause confusion amongst inno, and innos themselves typically bring out low-posters. Low-posters aren't threats because they have no credibility until they start posting, and if not they have to reveal to get credibility.

lot of sense in this statement

I agree with the above also.

[Eloth]

Silanah, on Jul 20 2009, 12:48 PM, said:

Eloth, on Jul 20 2009, 09:41 PM, said:

Fener, on Jul 20 2009, 11:38 AM, said:

Eloth, on Jul 20 2009, 12:31 PM, said:

Barghast was a day one choice, and thus was more down to bad luck than a reasonabe case, so dont foist that crap on me

similarly both scum never had time to get past day one, so we have no idea how they would play properly, but presumably the other two will have learnt from their mistakes.

and yes i do; there's less chance of being hit on a lynch train, isn't there?
and its mighty suspicious that both of the most vocal players aren't yet dead.
a typical scum move is to take out the biggest threats, lynching willynilly as you have been advocating would make you a threat, because statistically you would have to hit scum
moreover, you aren't causing a fuss, which would be the only reason to leave you alive; to divert attention from scummy behaviour

Nice card to pull out on Barghast. Hindsight is 20/20 right? I love people who act so self-righteous for not getting on Day 1 trains. Yes, we lynched an innocent on Day 1, that's how this game almost always works. Last time you had an amazing Day 1 case was... (P.S. you voted Silanah, along with Emurlahn, the scum)

If you think the other two scum would learn from their mistakes, you are basically claiming that two people will have different play styles. What about my playstyle has changed all game? (Your style is pretty much the same, too, FYI.)

Why the hell else do you think Silanah is still alive? He's a lynchable target! That's scum 101. You don't kill lynchable targets. Vocal players tend to find themselves getting lynched between Days 3 and 5 of most games. Even if Silanah is scum, you really think the other scum player is going to kill someone that's likely to get lynched? Typical scum moves ARE to take out the biggest threats and mouthy players are not necessarily big threats. That's why scum tends to kill low-posters in the beginning of the game, they tend to be the people hiding the most.

my style DOES change during games, and you'd be blind not to notice it. usually the thing that gets me lynched
and mouthy players are not biggest threats, agreed.
but, however, pushy players ARE threats.

but to the killers much more than to the innos. The innos aren't the ones trying to hide. the innos aren't hurt by pushy players. How would they be?

pushy players don hurt the innos, making them perfect places to hide.
not that i agree with that sentence, myself, but you would if thats the logic youre using;
pushy players normally push a lynch, fuck up, lynch an inno, and either push again, or get lynched for safetys sake
thats my take, although obviosuly its noit always correct

[Gamelon]

@Fener: The worst case scenario for inno is a scum player leading the game. That is why being pushy and "leading" is a threat to inno. Give me a scum hiding over a scum who has managed to find himself as a vocal leader in the game any day of the week.

[Korbas]

Karatallid, on Jul 20 2009, 10:30 AM, said:

And were on....

So we can conclude that there most likely is only 2 killers left then.


Im rather suprised that Kessoh wasnt killed...he was considered the other option for killer yesterday and no one killed him.
Leads me to believe that he could be one of the killers himself.

Id be inclined to lynch him over anyone else today...

Okay, beginning of today and this post just blows my mind.

There were a lot of scummy targets yesterday. Atrahal was being called scummy by Fener far more heavily than Kesso was, but Karat focuses on Kesso as the scummy target that should have died in the night. There are some giant logical leaps here that make me translate this post very clearly as: "I didn't kill Kesso last night because I wanted an easy lynch today."

Seriously, how could Karat know who the killers thought were scummy unless he was a killer himself?

And the fact that he didn't vote for him when he said he wanted to see him lynched, but waited for a first vote from Sil before he jumped on to turn it into a train he technically wasn't responsible for... that is just blatant scum.

Karatallid, on Jul 20 2009, 10:47 AM, said:

Ill add my vote

Vote Kessohbahn


On friday when i left it was either him or karosis for me....I never liked him much...but ended up voting karosis, id was really a toss of the coin between the two for me.
He has tried to be very below radar and posts only when he must. I totally agree with silanah

I also think there should have been a night kill on him, he was a big suspect for being a killer and no one killed him, wich leads me to believe he is very likely a killer himself.

Let's see, what does he say after that?

Well, he's trying to set up the next lynch (maybe he was even planning on using the same excuse again - "I called this guy scum and he didn't die! Must be scum!"):

Karatallid, on Jul 20 2009, 10:49 AM, said:

*snip Fener's giant multi-colored post (it hurts my eyes)*

I read this and started laughing.
this makes absolutely no sense al all....how did you get to your suspects again?....they were consistent? fuckagn hilarious.

Id vote you after kessoh for this completely rubbish post....
its like your trying to brainwash us with all your fancy colours... common sense be DAMNED

And...

Karatallid, on Jul 20 2009, 01:14 PM, said:

my point is that there are 2 killers...and both are independent, BOTH would have to think the same as what you are saying independently.

Weras if Kessoh is a killer himself, it would only lead us to believe that only the other killer might be thinking what you are suggesting....which for my money has ALLOt more chance of being the case.

Remember night one Ehmurlahn was killed bacause he was the "other choice" to barghast.
So why didnt it happen last night?...i reckon kessoh is scum...the more i think on it the more it makes sense to go for him...

Yes, you probably would put money on that since you are the killer you are talking about. Also, I'd like to add that this whole argument makes no sense since Atrahal didn't die last night either and he was getting a lot more heat from Fener.

I was suspicious of Karat before today, and I will dig up some other earlier scummy posts from him if I have some time, but I think that is enough to justify a vote.

Karatallid

edit: spelling

This post has been edited by Korbas: 20 July 2009 - 07:52 PM

[Anthras]

I was just looking at the post count and

Path-Shaper 112
Gamelon 72
Atrahal 70
Fener 62
Karatallid 62
Eloth 58
Silanah 57


and strangely enough all of the top posters are still alive. Doesn't mean anything by itself. Just thought I should point it out.

[Eloth]

Anthras, on Jul 20 2009, 12:53 PM, said:

I was just looking at the post count and

Path-Shaper 112
Gamelon 72
Atrahal 70
Fener 62
Karatallid 62
Eloth 58
Silanah 57


and strangely enough all of the top posters are still alive. Doesn't mean anything by itself. Just thought I should point it out.

ps is top poster
weve been lacking in spam, reducing a reason for killing top posters.
instead weve all just been wandering like lost lambs

[Anthras]

Gamelon, on Jul 20 2009, 07:51 PM, said:

@Fener: The worst case scenario for inno is a scum player leading the game. That is why being pushy and "leading" is a threat to inno. Give me a scum hiding over a scum who has managed to find himself as a vocal leader in the game any day of the week.

Oh yeah I can think of several instances were scum managed to lead the entire game. Very very dangerous.

[Anthras]

Eloth, on Jul 20 2009, 07:54 PM, said:

Anthras, on Jul 20 2009, 12:53 PM, said:

I was just looking at the post count and

Path-Shaper 112
Gamelon 72
Atrahal 70
Fener 62
Karatallid 62
Eloth 58
Silanah 57


and strangely enough all of the top posters are still alive. Doesn't mean anything by itself. Just thought I should point it out.

ps is top poster
weve been lacking in spam, reducing a reason for killing top posters.
instead weve all just been wandering like lost lambs

What does that tell you. It tells me that the scum aren't really worried about the people who are being pushy. If they were they would be killing them off at night.

[Korbas]

Silanah, on Jul 20 2009, 07:30 PM, said:

Korbas, on Jul 20 2009, 09:21 PM, said:

Fener, on Jul 20 2009, 07:12 PM, said:

Silanah, on Jul 16 2009, 11:25 PM, said:

anyways, my suspicions for today are Eloth and Kessobahn. The only people who can be confident in another person's innocence to the point of almost blocking a lynch on day 1, are either daft or evil.

I've done it myself as a killer in the past, thinking that defending an innocent instead of pushing a lynch (which would benefit the innos more) will make me seem more like a PI. It's a pattern that repeats itself, and that combined with their strange play, and kesso's very under the radar sort of game makes me think there's scum to be found

Silanah, on Jul 16 2009, 11:32 PM, said:

Gamelon, on Jul 17 2009, 08:27 AM, said:

Well, I agree with you on how that would be if we had general game dynamics, Sil. However, there is good reason for scum to find themselves on that train as well, this game, seeing as how they have nothing to lose in lynching either other scum or inno.

Edit: X post.

true, but that's all it gives us. Scum might be on both trains. The whole symp thing is stupid and I'm very embarassed that I brought it up early on.

We can't really find scum through the lynch trains in this game outside of fitting their participation into a pattern that fits with a sum role. Basically, we can find scum through slips, general play, or finders.

Silanah, on Jul 17 2009, 12:59 AM, said:

Well, I'm going to follow my gut on this one and vote

Kessobahn

For following a classic scum tactic by trying to CI himself through the defence of an inno when there's no reason for him to have been as confident as he was regarding Barghast's innocence.

Also on being very confident as to scum having one night action only when that's not stated by PS

If nothing else this should make him participate more

Here's the bulk of the case from Day 2, I believe. A few comments are made afterward about it, but Sil is the progenitor of the case.

Ha, I was about to make a post quoting all these, as well.

Basically Sil's suspicions begin because he thinks the scum know each other, which he later admits is silly. The only real argument is that he was attempting to CI himself, but don't innos want to make themselves look innocent, too?

I still don't get why everyone piled on him. Looks mighty suspicious, if you ask me.

I'd be curious to hear where you got that little piece of nonsense from.

Which little piece of nonsense?

[Eloth]

which means either theyve all been going madly wrong with lynches, or they are scum, imo.
your opinions?

[Gamelon]

That's how I read it, Eloth.

[Eloth]

Gamelon, on Jul 20 2009, 01:00 PM, said:

That's how I read it, Eloth.

well then
vote Fener
now, have to go.
back later hopefully

[Silanah]

that anything regarding my suspicions of kessobahn are based on the presence of symps, or my belief thereof

[Eloth]

back for a bit it seems

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 14 hours and 3 minutes remaining

10 Players still alive: Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, Eloth, Fener, Gamelon, Karatallid, Kessobahn, Korbas, Silanah

6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night

4 votes for Kessobahn: ( Silanah, Karatallid, Atrahal, Fener )
1 vote for Fener: ( Eloth )

Players not voted: Anomandaris, Anthras, Gamelon, Kessobahn, Korbas

[Korbas]

Silanah, on Jul 20 2009, 08:04 PM, said:

that anything regarding my suspicions of kessobahn are based on the presence of symps, or my belief thereof

So...

Silanah, on Jul 16 2009, 11:25 PM, said:

anyways, my suspicions for today are Eloth and Kessobahn. The only people who can be confident in another person's innocence to the point of almost blocking a lynch on day 1, are either daft or evil.

I've done it myself as a killer in the past, thinking that defending an innocent instead of pushing a lynch (which would benefit the innos more) will make me seem more like a PI. It's a pattern that repeats itself, and that combined with their strange play, and kesso's very under the radar sort of game makes me think there's scum to be found

This is where your suspicions of Kesso begin, and they seem to be based on you thinking the scum know each other. If you had worded it something like "The only people who can act confident..." it would be more in accordance with your later statements.

But it's your brain, so you know best what you were thinking. Sorry if I interpreted your words in an incorrent manner. I still think Karat is far more scummy than Kesso.

[Gamelon]

Since you are still here, Eloth, why Fener over Silanah?

Edit: Also, PS there's a vote on Karatallid by Korbas.

This post has been edited by Gamelon: 20 July 2009 - 08:15 PM