[MTS]

I got a headache and sore eyes, but no nausea. I can see how some people might throw up though.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Aha...possible cause.

I was reading about how the 3d stuff works

You have glasses. One lens is polarized counterclockwise and the other is polarized clockwise (optical theory stuff....you don't need to know). Basically the CCW lens blocks CW polarized light and admits only CCW polarized light. The CW lens does the opposite.

Then the projector (a digital projector in this case) projects images at ridiculously high rate, like 144 frames per second and a filter on the projector lens alternates CW to CCW polarization with each frame.

What it amounts to is that the polarization flips from CW to CCW for each projected frame, meaning that your left and right eyes never see the same frame at the same time. The 144 fps frame rate is there to blur the effect so that it looks like a continuous movie, which it achieves pretty well. Each eye sees exactly 72 frames per second, but with black in between each image. You know what I mean?

I can see how that flipping back and forth left and right might cause problems, and the faster-moving the scene (like the flying scenes) the more pronounced the stutter would be. For slow moving scenes the polarization flipping effect is completely invisible.

On top of that, they need to use a special screen for the projector that is more reflective than the average movie screen. This is to increase overal image brightness since there is a significant loss in light power going through 2 polarization filters. You can tell when you look at the screen with no glasses. Other than being blurry as hell, the image is eye-scorchingly bright.

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 19 January 2010 - 02:42 PM

[Mezla PigDog]

I would say that explains the headache!

[cerveza_fiesta]

and the fact that you can't close your eyes with hundreds of hot naked blue chicks dancing around the screen.

[Tiste Simeon]

I'm sure that's the sole reason Mezla went to see it...

[cerveza_fiesta]

Tiste Simeon, on 20 January 2010 - 12:44 AM, said:

I'm sure that's the sole reason Mezla anybody went to see it...

fixed

[alt146]

cerveza_fiesta, on 19 January 2010 - 02:41 PM, said:

Aha...possible cause.

I was reading about how the 3d stuff works

You have glasses. One lens is polarized counterclockwise and the other is polarized clockwise (optical theory stuff....you don't need to know). Basically the CCW lens blocks CW polarized light and admits only CCW polarized light. The CW lens does the opposite.

Then the projector (a digital projector in this case) projects images at ridiculously high rate, like 144 frames per second and a filter on the projector lens alternates CW to CCW polarization with each frame.

What it amounts to is that the polarization flips from CW to CCW for each projected frame, meaning that your left and right eyes never see the same frame at the same time. The 144 fps frame rate is there to blur the effect so that it looks like a continuous movie, which it achieves pretty well. Each eye sees exactly 72 frames per second, but with black in between each image. You know what I mean?

I can see how that flipping back and forth left and right might cause problems, and the faster-moving the scene (like the flying scenes) the more pronounced the stutter would be. For slow moving scenes the polarization flipping effect is completely invisible.

On top of that, they need to use a special screen for the projector that is more reflective than the average movie screen. This is to increase overal image brightness since there is a significant loss in light power going through 2 polarization filters. You can tell when you look at the screen with no glasses. Other than being blurry as hell, the image is eye-scorchingly bright.

Technically the two lenses are polarised 90 degrees to each other, but yeah.

If you REALLY want to give yourself a headache (and look stupid in the process) put the glasses on upside down. The 3D gets inverted and the image looks wrong on a very subtle level. Tried it for about a minute during the movie, feels very wierd.

[cerveza_fiesta]

alt146, on 20 January 2010 - 06:17 PM, said:

cerveza_fiesta, on 19 January 2010 - 02:41 PM, said:

Aha...possible cause.

I was reading about how the 3d stuff works

You have glasses. One lens is polarized counterclockwise and the other is polarized clockwise (optical theory stuff....you don't need to know). Basically the CCW lens blocks CW polarized light and admits only CCW polarized light. The CW lens does the opposite.

Then the projector (a digital projector in this case) projects images at ridiculously high rate, like 144 frames per second and a filter on the projector lens alternates CW to CCW polarization with each frame.

What it amounts to is that the polarization flips from CW to CCW for each projected frame, meaning that your left and right eyes never see the same frame at the same time. The 144 fps frame rate is there to blur the effect so that it looks like a continuous movie, which it achieves pretty well. Each eye sees exactly 72 frames per second, but with black in between each image. You know what I mean?

I can see how that flipping back and forth left and right might cause problems, and the faster-moving the scene (like the flying scenes) the more pronounced the stutter would be. For slow moving scenes the polarization flipping effect is completely invisible.

On top of that, they need to use a special screen for the projector that is more reflective than the average movie screen. This is to increase overal image brightness since there is a significant loss in light power going through 2 polarization filters. You can tell when you look at the screen with no glasses. Other than being blurry as hell, the image is eye-scorchingly bright.

Technically the two lenses are polarised 90 degrees to each other, but yeah.

If you REALLY want to give yourself a headache (and look stupid in the process) put the glasses on upside down. The 3D gets inverted and the image looks wrong on a very subtle level. Tried it for about a minute during the movie, feels very wierd.

Technically they're not linearly polarized, they're circularly polarized CW and CCW as described in my post.

Older systems had linear polarization as you say at 90 degrees to each other, but it causes problems when you tilt your head at any angle other than perfectly horizontal. With your head at 45degrees for instance, both lenses block 100% the incoming light since neither is aligned with the polarization of the projection.

Circular polarization overcomes the head-tilt issue because the CW and CCW polarization functions independently of lens orientation.

As a sidenote, there is a new technology (I forget who's developing it) that uses dual projectors to achieve the 3D effect. All colour on a screen is a mix of 3 primary colours - blue green and red at varying levels of brightness. The new system uses 1 projector for the left eye and another projector for the right eye pointed at the same movie screen. The left eye projects red, blue and green at slightly different wavelengths than the primary colours coming out of the right-eye projector.

Pair it with filter glasses where the right eye filters the left eye projector's wavelengths and the left eye does the opposite. Now you can have both left and right eye projectors overlaying frames 100% of the time and you get frame stutter on par with a normal 2D movie and no flicking back and forth between right and left eye vision.

Much better if they get it to work right eventually.

[alt146]

cerveza_fiesta, on 20 January 2010 - 06:43 PM, said:

alt146, on 20 January 2010 - 06:17 PM, said:

cerveza_fiesta, on 19 January 2010 - 02:41 PM, said:

Aha...possible cause.

I was reading about how the 3d stuff works

You have glasses. One lens is polarized counterclockwise and the other is polarized clockwise (optical theory stuff....you don't need to know). Basically the CCW lens blocks CW polarized light and admits only CCW polarized light. The CW lens does the opposite.

Then the projector (a digital projector in this case) projects images at ridiculously high rate, like 144 frames per second and a filter on the projector lens alternates CW to CCW polarization with each frame.

What it amounts to is that the polarization flips from CW to CCW for each projected frame, meaning that your left and right eyes never see the same frame at the same time. The 144 fps frame rate is there to blur the effect so that it looks like a continuous movie, which it achieves pretty well. Each eye sees exactly 72 frames per second, but with black in between each image. You know what I mean?

I can see how that flipping back and forth left and right might cause problems, and the faster-moving the scene (like the flying scenes) the more pronounced the stutter would be. For slow moving scenes the polarization flipping effect is completely invisible.

On top of that, they need to use a special screen for the projector that is more reflective than the average movie screen. This is to increase overal image brightness since there is a significant loss in light power going through 2 polarization filters. You can tell when you look at the screen with no glasses. Other than being blurry as hell, the image is eye-scorchingly bright.

Technically the two lenses are polarised 90 degrees to each other, but yeah.

If you REALLY want to give yourself a headache (and look stupid in the process) put the glasses on upside down. The 3D gets inverted and the image looks wrong on a very subtle level. Tried it for about a minute during the movie, feels very wierd.

Technically they're not linearly polarized, they're circularly polarized CW and CCW as described in my post.

Older systems had linear polarization as you say at 90 degrees to each other, but it causes problems when you tilt your head at any angle other than perfectly horizontal. With your head at 45degrees for instance, both lenses block 100% the incoming light since neither is aligned with the polarization of the projection.

Circular polarization overcomes the head-tilt issue because the CW and CCW polarization functions independently of lens orientation.

As a sidenote, there is a new technology (I forget who's developing it) that uses dual projectors to achieve the 3D effect. All colour on a screen is a mix of 3 primary colours - blue green and red at varying levels of brightness. The new system uses 1 projector for the left eye and another projector for the right eye pointed at the same movie screen. The left eye projects red, blue and green at slightly different wavelengths than the primary colours coming out of the right-eye projector.

Pair it with filter glasses where the right eye filters the left eye projector's wavelengths and the left eye does the opposite. Now you can have both left and right eye projectors overlaying frames 100% of the time and you get frame stutter on par with a normal 2D movie and no flicking back and forth between right and left eye vision.

Much better if they get it to work right eventually.

I thought it was still linear polarisation. You learn something new every day... That's pretty cool.

[Illuyankas]

Saw it, graphics were exceptional, still not the legendary epic QuickTidal was spluttering about earlier. Better than Smurf Gully, storywise, but not by much. Still enjoyable.

[Dagger]

Finally saw it, didn't get a headache, thought the visuals were the most original thing since I saw the first Star Wars (yeah, I'm old). And I want to hump Sigourney Weaver's avatar (yeah, I'm old).

[HoosierDaddy]

Are you the Keymaster, Dagger?

[Aptorian]

ZOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!

[K'Chain Bull'shite]

I suppose I ought to 'get' the hatred that this film has generated...somehow.

Yes, it has a Disney plot, ok, let's deal with that straightaway. You think that was an accident or a failing of the decision-makers? Take a moment and think about it and if you don't see the foolishness of that point of view then by all means make a new thread tomorrow and gather your compatriots with the aim of achieving...precisely nothing.

It's unfortunate the way it works in movie-making land, it truly is, but 'we', if 'we' constitutes a bunch of overeducated, undermotivated closet geniuses have to get organized if we're to make a difference. Don't fucking complain about Avatar - Avatar is at least a decent bit of propaganda - and really, that's all it is. Encourage surpassingly thick people to care about the environment and their fellow 'organisms'- job done. It's going to be hell for the politicos in the US inside the next 3 decades and I hope I'm alive to see it. People who moan about miniscule details - get a fucking grip. Hearts and minds as they say, except most who utter those words don't really understand them. Cameron (Canadian btw) knows exactly what he's doing. It's a disney movie, except much more visually attractive and with an important message. Job done.

[Aptorian]

Disney doesn't allow smoking in their films any longer... apparently.

[K'Chain Bull'shite]

Aptorian, on 21 January 2010 - 10:00 PM, said:

Disney doesn't allow smoking in their films any longer... apparently.

HaHa, what is your purpose here?

[Jusentantaka]

Bre, on 21 January 2010 - 10:05 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 21 January 2010 - 10:00 PM, said:

Disney doesn't allow smoking in their films any longer... apparently.

HaHa, what is your purpose here?

Being amusing more often than not. Yours?

[K'Chain Bull'shite]

Jusentantaka, on 21 January 2010 - 11:00 PM, said:

Bre, on 21 January 2010 - 10:05 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 21 January 2010 - 10:00 PM, said:

Disney doesn't allow smoking in their films any longer... apparently.

HaHa, what is your purpose here?

Being amusing more often than not. Yours?

To achieve a result - the betterment of our species -madness I know, but that doesn't mean it's alright to take the piss out of the idea endlessly, or maybe it does, depending one one's backing, but then, that defeats the purpose. I tire of you.

is being 'amusing' enough?! Learn to sleep while the sun is shining

[Yellow]

How is Avatar propoganda? I think you're giving Cameron too much credit if you think the film was anything other than a vehicle for sexy tech. The environmental aspect was at worst an attempt to cash in on trends, and at best a rehash of similar environment-oriented stories. Nothing new there.

This film has exactly three levels to it, and you need special glasses to see the third one.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Uh oh. This could get epic really quickly.