[Grief]

Good, looks like i'll be starting PSS shortly then.

On the other hand-i'm on holiday soon so if i've read some but not all, that'll be bugging me for weeks. Might be best to leave it, and don't want to risk destroying the book. Damn.

[Aptorian]

I would recommend waiting then. It gets off to a tough start. Very heavy descriptions in a somewhat confusing scenario. I felt it was only around 70-100 pages in, that it really picked up.

[alt146]

caladanbrood, on Jun 24 2009, 08:39 PM, said:

My favourite is actually The Scar, rather than PSS... Mieville's weakness is his endings though, I think... they really let him down, especially in PSS.

I really enjoyed the end of PSS actually.




@ Grief And I would read the book when I have the time to, so maybe wait until after your time off before starting it.

[caladanbrood]

But it was just so.... uuurgh. Infuriating. Not to mention inconsistant with the entirety of the rest of the novel.

[Abyss]

PSS SPOILERS SPOILERS SLAKE MOTH SPOILERS WILL
DRINK YOUR HEADPARTZ SPOILERS

SPOILERS

Spoiler

Y'know what i truly disliked about the ending... It wasn't what happened to Lin. That was tragic but fit the story. Or even the sort of 'and they all ran away to live as fugitives' thing, or the open ended Yag and Jack epilogue. It was the bit where Issac and Motley suddenly go all berserker and growl and charge each other and the slake moth shows up and gets shot repeatedly until it dies. It's a complete break from the behaviour of Issac, Motley, and even the bloody Moths and it doesn't really leave a good taste in the brain as to the wrap-up of the story.

Btw if you enjoy the series hunt down a copy of CM's short story collection LOOKING FOR JAKE. There's a great Jack Half-a-prayer story in there and some other brilliant stuff.

- Abyss, wants his own rue ferae.

[alt146]

Abyss, on Jun 25 2009, 07:26 PM, said:

PSS SPOILERS SPOILERS SLAKE MOTH SPOILERS WILL
DRINK YOUR HEADPARTZ SPOILERS

SPOILERS

Spoiler

Y'know what i truly disliked about the ending... It wasn't what happened to Lin. That was tragic but fit the story. Or even the sort of 'and they all ran away to live as fugitives' thing, or the open ended Yag and Jack epilogue. It was the bit where Issac and Motley suddenly go all berserker and growl and charge each other and the slake moth shows up and gets shot repeatedly until it dies. It's a complete break from the behaviour of Issac, Motley, and even the bloody Moths and it doesn't really leave a good taste in the brain as to the wrap-up of the story.

Btw if you enjoy the series hunt down a copy of CM's short story collection LOOKING FOR JAKE. There's a great Jack Half-a-prayer story in there and some other brilliant stuff.

- Abyss, wants his own rue ferae.

Ooh, I hadnt heard of that, will definitely keep an eye out.

[caladanbrood]

Abyss, on Jun 25 2009, 06:26 PM, said:

PSS SPOILERS SPOILERS SLAKE MOTH SPOILERS WILL
DRINK YOUR HEADPARTZ SPOILERS

SPOILERS

Spoiler

Y'know what i truly disliked about the ending... It wasn't what happened to Lin. That was tragic but fit the story. Or even the sort of 'and they all ran away to live as fugitives' thing, or the open ended Yag and Jack epilogue. It was the bit where Issac and Motley suddenly go all berserker and growl and charge each other and the slake moth shows up and gets shot repeatedly until it dies. It's a complete break from the behaviour of Issac, Motley, and even the bloody Moths and it doesn't really leave a good taste in the brain as to the wrap-up of the story.

Yeah that's a bit of it... out-of-character would definitely be the key phrase

[alt146]

caladanbrood, on Jun 25 2009, 08:18 PM, said:

Abyss, on Jun 25 2009, 06:26 PM, said:

PSS SPOILERS SPOILERS SLAKE MOTH SPOILERS WILL
DRINK YOUR HEADPARTZ SPOILERS

SPOILERS

Spoiler

Y'know what i truly disliked about the ending... It wasn't what happened to Lin. That was tragic but fit the story. Or even the sort of 'and they all ran away to live as fugitives' thing, or the open ended Yag and Jack epilogue. It was the bit where Issac and Motley suddenly go all berserker and growl and charge each other and the slake moth shows up and gets shot repeatedly until it dies. It's a complete break from the behaviour of Issac, Motley, and even the bloody Moths and it doesn't really leave a good taste in the brain as to the wrap-up of the story.

Yeah that's a bit of it... out-of-character would definitely be the key phrase

I figured a large amount of Isaac's behaviour would be explained by the fact that

Spoiler

he had just found out Lin was still alive and blamed himself for her condition after giving her up for dead.  He's been wracked with guilt about the decision for days and is suddenly confronted by the person who caused all his pain.  I can imagine he was pretty angry, but I agree Motley's actions were a bit odd.

[polishgenius]

I actually hadn't thought of that in PSS - though I agree with alt's assessment of Isaac there.

PSS is probably my least favourite of the three, it's quite ponderous to start. Iron Council was odd but I liked it and since I love Mieville's worldbuilding I liked a lot that we got to see a lot of said world. I also liked rereading PSS and catching the hints to Iron Council, and catching the conclusions of PSS stories in Iron Council...

PSS and IC spoilers:

Spoiler

Like seeing what eventually happened with Yagh in the puppet show in IC, or spotting that Spiral Jacobs is foreshadowed by one line in PSS, about ambassadors when the people are going to see the demon. Toro's origin too.

My favourite one is The Scar, though - my favourite book full stop, in fact. I found it pretty much perfect.

[Abyss]

THE SCAR is one of those books genre fans either really really love or really don't like.

I'm firmly on the love side. Brilliant setting (possibly one of the best in fantasy ever), interesting, at times quite original characters, neat plots, and some serious work for the thinkymeatz.

- Abyss, ...did kind of wish the mosquito men's faces weren't described as puckered anuses quite so much...

[Obdigore]

Abyss, on 26 June 2009 - 01:20 PM, said:

THE SCAR is one of those books genre fans either really really love or really don't like.

I'm firmly on the love side. Brilliant setting (possibly one of the best in fantasy ever), interesting, at times quite original characters, neat plots, and some serious work for the thinkymeatz.

- Abyss, ...did kind of wish the mosquito men's faces weren't described as puckered anuses quite so much...

And here I just finished the SCAR. While reading it, I couldn't put it down, and then it ends and I am sitting here thinking... it really wasn't that good of a book. Bas-Lag is pretty awesome, the writing is good... but I guess the plot is just... so...

SPOILERS FOR THE SCAR

Spoiler

NOTHING FUCKING HAPPENS. Noone you saw a POV from died. When Brucolac (who I thought was some descendant of vampire broccli, by the way) was jesus-ified, I was like, finally, endgame.

AND THEN SUDDENLY A BUNCH OF 'NOBODYS' DIE, FEMALE LOVER GOES OFF TO POSSIBLY JUMP INTO OBLIVION, AND ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING GOES BACK TO HOW IT WAS BEFORE. OH, EXCEPT WHINEY-CHICK GETS TO GO HOME AND SPY-GUY GETS TORTURED. SUPER-DUPER! I NEVER IMAGINED THAT HAPPENING.

Ahem.

[Lisheo]

Perdido Street Station is awesome. Seriously. The Weaver was just fascinating, what an original character. That said, I agree, I was expecting the

Spoiler

final Slake Moth to have some kind of grand ending, something poignant, but instead, basically, it just gets torched by a bunch of nobodies after a very dramatic, built-up meeting that didn't really go anywhere.

[Abyss]

Actually, if you look at the endings of all three New Crobuzon books China is big on ambiguity and open ended non-resolutions, which is either going to work for a reader or not.

I was totally fine with how THE SCAR ended, okay with IRON COUNCIL, but share the above mentioned dissatisfaction with PERDIDO SS.

THE SCAR...

Spoiler

the point was that time travel and alternate futures were always a factor, and you got to see one, then see Armada avoid it. The 'quest' ended with the characters walking away from the goal but the reader got to see how it might have ended... or it might have all been a scam by Duol and the cactus guy. That was the point. i liked, but then, i dont need a good read to be tied up nice and neat at the end.

IRON COUNCIL...

Spoiler

China uses 'time travel' as a plot device again, this time to make a statement about the importance of symbols in the struggle against totalitarianism. And yes, it's exactly as pretentious as it sounds but it works in the context of the characters and the story he was telling. But anyone holding out for a big fight at the finish was going to be dissappointed. I was a bit ambivalent about this... if you accept that the people were never going to rise up and the Council's final charge was doomed to messy bloody failure than the frozen-in-time thing makes sense. But China spent so much time on the revolt in progress... he had a frikkin handlinger shange sides ffs... that in the end you're left to wonder if maybe it would have worked and the freeze is only due to one characters selfishness which is a kind of frustrating way to derail a revolution that might have worked. But i suppose that's China's way of doing things.

PSS...

Spoiler

...yeah, the last Moth being taken out by massed gunfire by a bunch of no name characters was lame, as was Scientist protagonist guy and Big Bad Criminal just deciding to charge each other for no apprent reason that made any sense.

.

I haven't read THE CITY yet so i don't know if the same holds, but it seems that's just his style.


- Abyss, ...won't even get into the sex-with-half-human-thingies thing...

[Lisheo]

Yeah, I can't help but squirm when I think about being in the throws of passion with someone, then looking at them and seeing a giant fucking scarab beetle looking back at you instead of a head. Seriously. How is that even remotely an attractive feature in a partner? I'll admit, being a guy, the chest would draw some attention away from it, but it's got a beetle-head, god damn it!

Okay, rant over, rant over.
I haven't finished the Scar yet, nor have I started Iron Council yet, but does the

Spoiler

Ambassador

feature again, ever?

[amphibian]

Abyss, on 03 December 2009 - 05:07 PM, said:

IRON COUNCIL...

Spoiler

he had a frikkin handlinger change sides ffs...

I don't know about that.

Spoiler

You're talking about the Spiral Jacobs fight, right? Wasn't the handlinger preserving the integrity of New Crobuzon when it joined the battle? That seems more a symmetry of interests rather than changing sides.

Lisheo, on 03 December 2009 - 05:18 PM, said:

I haven't finished the Scar yet, nor have I started Iron Council yet, but does the

Spoiler

Ambassador

feature again, ever?

There is another non-demon ambassador in Iron Council and demons pop up here and there.

[Obdigore]

amphibian, on 03 December 2009 - 10:23 PM, said:

Abyss, on 03 December 2009 - 05:07 PM, said:

IRON COUNCIL...

Spoiler

he had a frikkin handlinger change sides ffs...

I don't know about that.

Spoiler

You're talking about the Spiral Jacobs fight, right? Wasn't the handlinger preserving the integrity of New Crobuzon when it joined the battle? That seems more a symmetry of interests rather than changing sides.

Lisheo, on 03 December 2009 - 05:18 PM, said:

I haven't finished the Scar yet, nor have I started Iron Council yet, but does the

Spoiler

Ambassador

feature again, ever?

There is another non-demon ambassador in Iron Council and demons pop up here and there.

1 - I thought Abyss was talking about (Spoilers for Iron Council)

Spoiler

the 'leftist' or whatever that 'snapped' two righties out of the sky before getting breathed fire on... that whole thing was weird as hell. I didn't like the ending. The time golem humps the train and suddenly they are just suspended in time until they are needed? Or are they just frozen like that forever? Could a random 'golumnist' get them out by calling another time golum? I mean really. Full of annoying holes. I thought hte Spiral Jacobs fight was between him and another guy from the IC who was first from the city the Crozubonners are fighting, the same place Spiral is from.

I too have read The Scar, IC, and PSS, and I enjoyed PSS the best. The Scar was entertaining, and I can understand the ending. IC - the ending did nothing but made me think that the whole back 1/3rd of the book was a let down.

I want a Slake-Moth t-shirt.

[amphibian]

Obdigore, on 03 December 2009 - 10:40 PM, said:

1 - I thought Abyss was talking about (Spoilers for Iron Council)

Spoiler

the 'leftist' or whatever that 'snapped' two righties out of the sky before getting breathed fire on... that whole thing was weird as hell.

Ohhhh.

Spoiler

That was the voice dude whispering in the sinistral's ear - how hands hear, I've no idea - and it was forced to take out the dextriers. I think.

[Abyss]

Can we just call it SPOILERS OPEN here, because this is getting tedious is a thread already marked for SPOILERS... SO...

SPOILERS
ALL CHINA MIEVILLE NEW CROBUZON BOOKS SPOILERS

FUCKING SPOILERS

YOU HAVE BEEN SPOILERS WARNED SPOILERS

GO CRY SOMEWHERE ELSE IF YOU'RE SPOILERS SPOILERS

SPOILERS

Lisheo, on 03 December 2009 - 05:18 PM, said:

Yeah, I can't help but squirm when I think about being in the throws of passion with someone, then looking at them and seeing a giant fucking scarab beetle looking back at you instead of a head...

To give credit where due, Mieville does a decent job of making their relationship believable, right down to acknowledging that Sci-guy was drunk their first time and kind of freaked out.

In The Scar there was machine-below-the-knees girl, which is just logistically vexing if you think about it... (oh, shut up you perverts). IC didn't really get into the weirdsex much but the homosexuality probably freaked out enough of the more vanilla readers as it was.

Abyss, on 03 December 2009 - 05:07 PM, said:

IRON COUNCIL...

Spoiler

he had a frikkin handlinger change sides ffs...

Quote

I thought Abyss was talking about (Spoilers for Iron Council)
the 'leftist' or whatever that 'snapped' two righties out of the sky before getting breathed fire on... that whole thing was weird as hell.

That was the one. Mid one of the riot scenes in New Cro'.

Quote

I didn't like the ending. The time golem humps the train and suddenly they are just suspended in time until they are needed? Or are they just frozen like that forever? Could a random 'golumnist' get them out by calling another time golum?

The point was that the good guy golemist was so vastly talented that no one would ever be able to produce another time golem and release the train. Now why The New Cro' gov wouldn't just build a big warehouse around the thing beats me...


- Abyss, ...notes hey, at least the trains run on time...

[caladanbrood]

To pick up a slightly earlier point, if it weren't for the ending, PSS would be probably the second or third best book I've ever read. Easily top five anyway. Not only was it unsatisfying, but it made no sense - the fact that all his books have similar flaws makes me wonder if he is just really bad at sticking to deadlines and has to rush it too much at the end...

[alt146]

caladanbrood, on 04 December 2009 - 11:02 PM, said:

To pick up a slightly earlier point, if it weren't for the ending, PSS would be probably the second or third best book I've ever read. Easily top five anyway. Not only was it unsatisfying, but it made no sense - the fact that all his books have similar flaws makes me wonder if he is just really bad at sticking to deadlines and has to rush it too much at the end...

I don't have as much of an issue with the endings as a lot of people seem to, I'd say he's my second favourite author on the strength of his writing and ideas. I don't know about the rushed thing, the endings don't feel tacked on.