[Eloth]

I also agree that I doubt there will be compulsion for the first couple of days. Since we can be reasonably safe in assuming the DG will manage to infect every night, we have a good idea how many infected are in play. Any situation that results in someone having the same number of votes as the estimated number of infected at the end of a day will make them stick out like a sore thumb. I would think it would only really become viable when the infected reach 1/3+ of the total players.

Gam's idea is decent enough. It would be nigh impossible to force that every person removes votes on someone who isnt the main target just before end of day, but if people could try make sure they dont leave their votes lying around it would help.

[Emurlahn]

@eloth - the problem i see is the DG purposefully not using compulsion and then a mindset settling in that anyone who has removed their vote is automatically exempt from suspicion. We shouldn't allow ourselves to become expectant of behaviours as it will allow both the scum and the infected(DG included) to play us like fiddles.

[Gamelon]

Karatallid, on Jun 24 2009, 05:16 AM, said:

Gamelon, on Jun 24 2009, 09:27 AM, said:

Silanah, on Jun 24 2009, 04:18 AM, said:

Gamelon, on Jun 24 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

I think hte DG would NOT bother putting in a compulsion today. There is too much risk of exposing his recruits.
But if he DID it would probably have been on rashan as he would have been the obvious lynch for today.

So if we do not lynch rashan...i suggest EVERYONE removes there vote form him.

In fact i have a better idea.
If someone is about to get lynched everyone has to remove there votes from all other players before the hammer gets dropped.
This might stop the DG from using his compulsion as his recruits cant then remove votes or they will die.


edit - added "NOT"

You are of course assuming that we will all have to be on at the exact time, just before the hammer is dropped. You are aware of this right?

Edit: Being nice: Other than that one tiny flaw, your idea is a good one.

fuck that...make time.

we can usually see who are the main lynch candidates by halfway through the day.
So the guys who leave votes on random players that more than likely wont get voted off should just remove there votes when they are on.
If you know you are not going to be around at deadline then you make sure you leave your vote on the right place or dont vote at all.
Goddammit MAKE IT WORK

It's a nice idea. The main problem I have with it is that it seriously limits our search for the killers, in forcing everyone to be on the main lynch train. If people are going to be on the main lynch train, we should force them to justify it themselves, rather than give them the excuse that they're trying to find compulsed infected.

The killers are still a threat to us, we can't afford to focus entirely on the DG, unfortunately.

Well i am not saying that people mustn't vote who they want....it was just an idea that once its clear who is going to lynch only THEN should the rest remove votes.
So finding killers wouldnt get hindered.
Unfortunately RL will get in the way and will omre than likely be used as an excuse by the killers and DG alike.

The killers are for my money is just as big a threat as the DG.

Rashan's vote for night think would be considered a killer mentality, ...so far i reckon the best candidate for being a killer/symp.
But it is rather weak.


edit - typps

This post has been edited by Gamelon: 24 June 2009 - 09:48 AM

[Gamelon]

Emurlahn, on Jun 24 2009, 05:22 AM, said:

@gamelon - good plan in theory but what if the dg doesnt use compulsion, or the players just aren't on to remove? I suppose we could use it as an indicator but it may be misleading and as its far from concrete, harmful as a result.

actually the plan i am putting forward is merely to stop the DG from using compulsion, not really going to be able to catch anyone out because of people not bein around all the time.
So the DG wont be able to use it unless he really needs it, if we play cautiously like this.

[Eloth]

Emurlahn, on Jun 24 2009, 11:46 AM, said:

@eloth - the problem i see is the DG purposefully not using compulsion and then a mindset settling in that anyone who has removed their vote is automatically exempt from suspicion. We shouldn't allow ourselves to become expectant of behaviours as it will allow both the scum and the infected(DG included) to play us like fiddles.

This is true - the lack of removing a vote would prove infection, but removing a vote would not prove the lack of infection.

Edit - it would prove infection with the right number of votes. I seriously doubt any infected would disobey their compulsion. Revealing that they are infected and risking being overloaded is better than certain death.

This post has been edited by Eloth: 24 June 2009 - 10:01 AM

[Gamelon]

Eloth, on Jun 24 2009, 05:52 AM, said:

Emurlahn, on Jun 24 2009, 11:46 AM, said:

@eloth - the problem i see is the DG purposefully not using compulsion and then a mindset settling in that anyone who has removed their vote is automatically exempt from suspicion. We shouldn't allow ourselves to become expectant of behaviours as it will allow both the scum and the infected(DG included) to play us like fiddles.

This is true - the lack of removing a vote would prove infection, but removing a vote would not prove the lack of infection.

exactly, so if you are around at hammer time and are not on the lynch train that will be the lynch then remove your vote just to show you have not been compelled to vote for someone else....

If you dont want to or refuse then its a good indication you have been infected....everything else is for the birds and roves nothing.

[Gamelon]

Anyways....i think we need to start focussing a little on the killers today aswell.
The DG is making us have tunnel vision over here.

[Korlat]

Kaschan, on Jun 24 2009, 06:27 AM, said:

Okay, Korlat's 3, I guess his tz means he won't be on til tonight. However, makes a point of being too lazy to catch up. Oh well. Hope for some stuff tonight. Interesting that he still hops on Tellan, regardless of having no time to really comment.

Korlat, on Jun 23 2009, 12:31 AM, said:

Finally here, stupid time-zone differences and shit.

Anything crucial that I need to catch up on over the last 9 pages/330 posts? Or is this still day one and I can just walk in and start playing?

Korlat, on Jun 23 2009, 12:59 AM, said:

Ah, well, then I'll have to force myself to wade through it, I suppose.



Thanks, Barghast - just didn't want to waste my time. *sigh*

Korlat, on Jun 23 2009, 06:25 AM, said:

Apologies all. I got started reading up, but RL intruded.

Will have slightly more time tomorrow..I hope.

I note it is even on Tellan and Rashan. Interesting scatter of other votes. Only 6 hours to deadline, and I won't be back for that, so I'll throw out a vote -

Vote Tellan

At this point, for no reason other than random chance, I'd vote for either...day one, as well, so our hopes of success are based purely on guesswork, in any case.

Night all...promise to be on more tomorrow.

Well, screw you, Kaschan. And you, Ampelas. "Doesn't take that much time to read up and get some thoughts down". Apparently, we all read at the same speed, and all have plenty of time to build quote-based cases (let's face it, general thoughts based on read-ups are just the same as what I posted, 'cept with slightly more basis for substance). I had fucking 30 minutes on the computer yesterday, and barely more today. I've got 3 forums to catch up on, and I sadly put mafia at the end of my list of 'must-do'. Sorry that you don't have anything else to do in your life.
I'm seriously contemplating a mod-kill, if you must know, as I'm fucking short on time right now, but want to play this game. I just got caught up on this now, but seriously, it's all focusing on Rashan and how he might or might not be infected, based on some day one play, and a few silly comments here and there. Perhaps we'd be better off looking for scum, and the dopple-ganger, than looking for infected, hmmm?
Now, Rashan *could* be one of the above trying to hide behind the claim of infected so that he can escape the lynch - and that wouldn't be a bad play, as infected are not necessarily bad, so there's no reason to lynch them when there are alternatives. I also doubt the use of the compulsion mechanic on day one, and maybe even today. You can't even say it's likely that the DG forced people to vote Rashan, as there is no reason for them to vote him early *except* you then get the train rolling, and avoid looking suspicious for changing your vote last minute.
Essentially, we end up with WIFOM. Which is bad. Last game, this sort of stuff happened with Fener, and so I vote we get rid of the source of WIFOM asap.

I'll be on before deadline, however, so don't want to push the day forward too fast, and thus lose potential chances to see scum, who are still a major threat.

And, sadly, that then concludes my participation time for the day. Apologies, and I'm still considering that mod-kill. All depends on how active I can be over this game-day, really.

[Gamelon]

Im willing to give a bit of leeway for low posters as usual till day 3, so no problems here as long as i see ya tryin

[Gamelon]

On that note...i too have a mad busy day...and tomorrow im off the the french consulate and god knows how long that ill take.

[Mockra]

Silanah, on Jun 24 2009, 08:06 PM, said:

Mockra, on Jun 24 2009, 04:30 AM, said:

Wow 5 votes on Rashan already... Im all for the Rashan lynch but im not placing a vote right now as it would be at l-4 in just a few hours...
@Kaschan, Yeah Korlat hasn't said much but you should always give the benefit of the doubt on the first day..

So in other words a cop out, you want to go for the easiest target?
And tbh I have looked over your posts and besides misunderstanding the mechanics, you have agreed with someone else's case and you have given no reasons why you would vote for Rashan.

:avote: Mockra

Well first of all if I wanted to go for the easist target, I would have placed a vote but I wanted speculation first..
Secondly, you must be pretty stupid if you think I need to point out the obvious... he voted night, why do I need to restate the obvious..
I find it a little weird that you would go after me rather than one of the people who hoped aboard the train in the early votes considering I didn't even place one.
For now I am going to place my vote on him as he voted night... happy?
Vote Rashan

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 20 hours and 27 minutes remaining

19 Players still alive: Ampelas, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Galain, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Kaschan, Korlat, Liosan, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Silanah, Thyrllan

10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night

1 vote for Korlat: ( Ampelas )
1 vote for Mockra: ( Silanah )
7 votes for Rashan: ( Galain, Kaschan, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Omtose, Barghast, Mockra )

Players not voted: D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Korlat, Liosan, Meanas, Rashan, Thyrllan

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 24 June 2009 - 11:28 AM

[Kaschan]

Rashan, on Jun 24 2009, 12:34 AM, said:

Galain, on Jun 24 2009, 12:16 AM, said:

Oh look, I got here just in time to see Rashan post again.

I dunno why you are all offended that I'm going after you. You voted night on Day 1 and you have never come out with a good explanation of it. I said you sound like you're scrambling to cover a silly mistake. It's not personal and it's not intended to be mean and if you come up scum or infected, I'm going to seriously pat myself on the back for seeing it before.

Also, I'm here back and forth for a little while if anyone wants to discuss things.

I'm not offended as much as I'm confused by the missteps that everyone keeps telling I did for voting night the first day. Yes I know that the innocents can't win if they don't lynch but how much does one day delay in lynching really hurt the innocents chances of winning? Has anyone done any statistics on that? Probably not if there is always a lynch on day one. There would be no data to back up or disprove the case for voting for night the first day either way. Maybe voting night is as stupid as you all say it is, but maybe it's not.

I see it this way. You will most likely have one more player on your team alive one more day to help figure out who is scum that you wouldn't have otherwise had because they were lynched. How much more information can you get from lynching an innocent verses waiting one more day. You will still see a players status that were killed from a NA so you will still have that information to go on.

I just don't see why voting night is a fast track way of getting yourself lynched.

Okay, not to try and vindicate Rash or anything, just a comment. This is why Mafia games with living people together in a room start off in night phase. Then we don't have the random day one lynch. But I think the reason we don't do that here is because then that first person wouldn't even get to participate in the spam phase, meaning they just lost 1-2 weeks of mafia.

Korlat, I wasn't building cases last night, I was just doing something I thought would be helpful, namely, keeping anyone from getting lost in the shuffle. Rashan will likely be lynched today, i just don't want us to forget that there's other people playing. I know Barghast thinks I'm scummy for it, but I still think its helpful. At the very least its been helping me keep things straight .

I rather like Gamelon's idea that we remove all peripheral votes before the lynch. Esp. if we end up lynching someone completely different than what was expected.

[Emurlahn]

@mockra - what is the rush? we have 20 hours remaining and half the players havent posted today and you are putting a player on l-3? seriously. if there isn't scum on this train i am a monkeys uncle.

[Karatallid]

Emurlahn, on Jun 24 2009, 01:12 PM, said:

@mockra - what is the rush? we have 20 hours remaining and half the players havent posted today and you are putting a player on l-3?

Wasn't that Mockra's argument?

Mockra, on Jun 24 2009, 03:30 AM, said:

Wow 5 votes on Rashan already... Im all for the Rashan lynch but im not placing a vote right now as it would be at l-4 in just a few hours...

And as soon as someone put him under a bit of pressure for it he changed his mind.

[Karatallid]

Kaschan, on Jun 24 2009, 01:00 PM, said:

This is why Mafia games with living people together in a room start off in night phase.

Do they? I never have.

[Gamelon]

whats the point of starting in the night phase?....one poor sod always doesnt get a chance to play?

[Karatallid]

Gamelon, on Jun 24 2009, 01:31 PM, said:

whats the point of starting in the night phase?....one poor sod always doesnt get a chance to play?

Exactly.

[Kaschan]

Exactly why I don't like to play live games any more. Maybe its just the group I was with, a bunch of stupid drama kids at my high school, but they insisted that it starts with role distribution and a kill.

Edit: The only day I did play with them, I raised a bit of a stink that it wasn't starting in day phase, because frankly it was rather stupid. Also, they didn't lynch on clear majority, they lynched on most votes. It would be like, one guy got 2 votes and everyone else got 1 vote, the guy with 2 died. It was retarded. It destroyed the fous of the game, namely, discussion and debate skill building.

This post has been edited by Kaschan: 24 June 2009 - 01:21 PM

[Gamelon]

Kaschan, on Jun 24 2009, 09:19 AM, said:

Exactly why I don't like to play live games any more. Maybe its just the group I was with, a bunch of stupid drama kids at my high school, but they insisted that it starts with role distribution and a kill.

Edit: The only day I did play with them, I raised a bit of a stink that it wasn't starting in day phase, because frankly it was rather stupid. Also, they didn't lynch on clear majority, they lynched on most votes. It would be like, one guy got 2 votes and everyone else got 1 vote, the guy with 2 died. It was retarded. It destroyed the fous of the game, namely, discussion and debate skill building.

OOOoooooh....so you played with a bunch of retarded drama students...makes sense now