[Hood's Path]

Yea i think you are over thinking.

The thing is...not only do we need to get rid of cult, we must also get rid of our opposing merc teams...so you need to factor that in as well.
The problem is if just one cult member is alive and he can recruit, its a major danger...they can get there numbers up very quickly.
We have hit two ducks in a row and this could be outr chance to get rid of the cult entirely. Or at least cripple them for good.


So your not liking this case by rashan on ruse could lead me to believe that Ruse is in fact on your team, perhaps he WAS on your team, perhaps he is your leader and therefore you know he shouldnt be able to be recruited and are trying to derail.

There are many factors and i can fully understand that there can be resistance because of these factors.

edit-
had a half a sentance

This post has been edited by Hood's Path: 12 June 2009 - 08:37 AM

[Emurlahn]

Well, you could assume that Ruse is my leader and I'm trying to derail. But that would lead me to assume that Rashan is your leader, so you know he can't be recruited and so must be trustworthy, to an extent.
What I am curious about, HP, is how you know that higher ups in the chain can't be recruited...or are you assuming that? Because I certainly don't know if a leader can be recruited or not.



I am perfectly willing to vote Ruse. Except that I feel Rashan is leading us all too quickly. Did you ever consider that he could actually be the cult?

[Tennes]

Well I have to catch up, looks like some funny monkey business going on in the very least.

[Hood's Path]

Emurlahn, on Jun 12 2009, 01:47 AM, said:

Well, you could assume that Ruse is my leader and I'm trying to derail. But that would lead me to assume that Rashan is your leader, so you know he can't be recruited and so must be trustworthy, to an extent.
What I am curious about, HP, is how you know that higher ups in the chain can't be recruited...or are you assuming that? Because I certainly don't know if a leader can be recruited or not.



I am perfectly willing to vote Ruse. Except that I feel Rashan is leading us all too quickly. Did you ever consider that he could actually be the cult?

Well ofcourse nothing is certain
I am just guessing that leaders cant be recruited. There needs to be some limitations to the cult and that is the obvious one.
But, You are getting it all backwards here, i trust rashan is not in cult because of his actions. Its clear that rashan has not been recruited. He has pushed for both Gamelon and feners lynches and they both were cult. No cult member would do that.

Was he recruited lastnight? maybe...maybe not. Thats all WIFOM stuff that i would rather not get into as it gets us nowhere.
Doesnt make his case on Ruse any less valid now does it?
Regardless of whether i trust rashan or not his case is pretty damn good...and worth a look in my opinion.
I cant now go jumping at everything thinking that this person or that person could have been recruited.
I am taking cases at face value.

[Hood's Path]

Tennes, on Jun 12 2009, 02:23 AM, said:

Well I have to catch up, looks like some funny monkey business going on in the very least.

monkey business?

[Emurlahn]

@HP - yes, my speculation about Rashan being your leader was merely pointing out that one can assume all sorts of things based on what someone is doing.

And while I admit Rashan voting for Game and Fener is very redeeming, I'm just trying to avoid being sheeped into a rush lynch.

[Hood's Path]

The thing is...
I have shouted just as loud for fener and then probably even more so for gamelons lynches than what rashan has.
So now that you come out and single rashan out for his case and saying he is taking control of the game is rather interesting.

If anything you should be scared of me leading the game...but instead you say rashan is.
I made the initial case yesterday that got gamelon lynched, not rashan....so i dont really buy your thinking that rashan is leading the sheep.
There seems to be another agenda behind your actions.

[Emurlahn]

Ah, but you didn't come out today and instantly point fingers, first at Liosan, and then at Ruse. Which to me was a bit like "hey, let's hurry up and lynch a cult - there's one!".

It's just being cautious.

[Tennes]

I think the logical next step is to take a look at Liosan, I believe his vote on Game was simple distancing - before that he was believing Game was telling the truth and whatnot. I've said it before - total deja vu. But I don't mind looking in other directions also, I need to read up on the Ruse case.

[Tennes]

I'll have to get back to you on the other cases, I have to run unfortunately - pretty slow around here anyway so.

[Emurlahn]

And I'm out too. Sleep time.

Weekend tomorrow - so plenty of participation time then. ^^

[Hood's Path]

Emurlahn, on Jun 12 2009, 02:46 AM, said:

Ah, but you didn't come out today and instantly point fingers, first at Liosan, and then at Ruse. Which to me was a bit like "hey, let's hurry up and lynch a cult - there's one!".

It's just being cautious.

Well i was already talking about liosan being a good place to look at lastnight already!
I dont really get your point? should we wait now a few hours before making cases?

So being the first person to make a case on a day is pushing for a quick lynch?

I understand you being cautious, but there is not any quick lynch happening so i dont know why you are fretting so.
How many votes on ruse is there?

[Hood's Path]

Tennes, on Jun 12 2009, 02:49 AM, said:

I think the logical next step is to take a look at Liosan, I believe his vote on Game was simple distancing - before that he was believing Game was telling the truth and whatnot. I've said it before - total deja vu. But I don't mind looking in other directions also, I need to read up on the Ruse case.

yea for sure the obvious places would be liosan and now after that case ruse aswell, i could go either way.
Want to see what others have to say before i place a vote.

I wont be around this weekend...as usual.
So will have to place a vote before i leave.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 6. 24 hours and 2 minutes remaining

10 Players still alive: D'riss, Emurlahn, Hood's Path, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Rashan, Ruse, Telas, Tennes

6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night

2 votes for Telas: ( Liosan, Rashan )

Players not voted: D'riss, Emurlahn, Hood's Path, Korvalain, Meanas, Ruse, Telas, Tennes

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 12 June 2009 - 03:12 PM

[Korvalain]

So the case on Lio is symping Gam and because his vote could be distancing right? If that's all there is, Rashan's case on Ruse looks much more convincing.

However, Rashan himself doesn't seem to think so. I find it fishy that he makes a big case over 2 posts and then after a back and forth with Lio switches over to Telas. That's where I think Emur's suspicion that Rashan just wants any lynch comes from, since I feel the same way.

Another thing that did strike me odd (but consistent I suppose) is Rashan has waffled on almost all of his other votes too. He removed his vote on Gamelon and later hammered. He removed his vote on Fener and then came back and made the 6th vote on the train.

That said, I have trouble reconciling that Rashan could be a cult role considering how he bulldogged after Fener.

[Rashan]

Im back, seems Im getting a lot of attention, well its about time, fuck I've been highest poster for 5 of the 6 days! And it took until day 6 for someone to say, hey, Rashan might be cult! You guys crack me up, I pushed hard for Feners lynch and voted early on Game, and then hammered him! Ecuse the exclamation points I just had sex and it was good.

As for this leader BS, I think I found a leader, and I think its Liosan, my one vote (because he didn't want to lynch Game), has everyone up in arms. But no one thinks, you know, Lio...he might be who Game was referring to, you know, the quote were Lio said he was reffering to Rash, the Mr-oblivious-fucking-anchor, or something like that. Lio started the day, before the Game lynch with this post

Liosan, on Jun 10 2009, 08:29 PM, said:

huh

so, mesmerists are doing the recruiting.

having read the book fully now, it makes sense.

it would seem Gamelon got tricked by morgy's reveal. ouch, sucks to be drawn into the limelight like that.

of course, there's always the possibility that Fener WAS heshette who got recruited.

hmm

And at first, that post was the one that pulled m to Lio, but now, after seing last nights scramble, I think its more than likely, that Lio was Games leader, having said that, I don't think he's cult, same reasoning as he gave me, hes been on both trains.

In fact there are 3 people who werent on either train

Telas, Ruse and D'riss

I made the case on Ruse, and while its good, my opinion is hes not the recruiter, because he DID vote Fener early on, not as distancing, but more pressure and thought out. So hes either a recruited member, or not cult at all. Telas however is an unknown, its day 6 and he has 10 posts. Now he could be anything, recruit, recruiter, team mate, leader, anything. So I switched my vote to go with the best opportunity to hit cult, that is Telas at this time. Tomorrow, it will be Ruse, and my case is good enough for most people to back, I suppose. But Telas first, IMO.

And if you think I'm sheparding Emur, how about stepping up and making more posts like you did today.

[Rashan]

Well, I've got alot to do today, so I'll be mostly out, but as usual I'll be partly in....wait,what?

[Korvalain]

Glad you like the attention.

Of the three not on the trains, Telas needs to go too methinks. What's holding me back from voting though is RL seems to be in the way. Pretty bad form to lie about that.

D'riss has been so damn squeaky clean, it makes me nervous. Same goes for Meanas.

It makes me happy that you said Lio is a leader and then back it up with something plausible. Lio has been bringing up stuff I-know-so-and-so's-faction all game and then not saying WHY he thinks he knows it.

[Ruse]

Now I have no problem with cases on me, but come on, at least read the posts, preferably in context. I'll (try to!) break Rashan's quote up to answer his 'points'. Bah, I can't get it to work all the way down, so I'll put my answers in blue.

Rashan, on Jun 12 2009, 01:06 AM, said:

Ruse, on Jun 11 2009, 06:54 PM, said:

You can't vote if you aren't here and I did vote for Fener, in fact I pushed my case day 2. I was gullible and did believe his reveal, but was hardly alone in that. Oh and I wanted to hammer Game today, but YOU said to wait and even removed your vote. I told you I wouldn't be on until later...you can't have forgotten that already can you? And now I have to sleep, whether it's convenient or not. Heresy I know, but this game has to come after petty trivialities like work and family (not all of us can access the internet in work you know).

Edit: Cross post - and this was @ Rashan

Danger - Contradiction alert!!!!

Day 2 after the Sil Lynch Fener and Ruse are talking, Ruse says, I didn't try to hurt you!

I would hardly call it talking, but nice attempt at linking us as some sort of buddies!

Rashan, on Jun 12 2009, 01:06 AM, said:

Ruse, on Jun 7 2009, 06:47 AM, said:

Fener, on Jun 7 2009, 10:28 AM, said:

what the hell?

There's a big difference between what's said on the first page of the game and further into it. I understand that I'm a good target and this is a merc game so there's no such thing as innocent, but can't you guys at least try to provide an argument that actually makes sense?

Look how things have developed, I mentioned Korlat yesterday and today as one of my favourite candidates for a lynch. Ruse went for me yesterday when I did that, and again today (meaning day 2 btw), not to mention Liosan.. Don't you guys feel some people were a bit too willing to jump on my train for no logical reason? This has not been a Fener acts like a power role and should be lynched, but rather a we must lynch Fener so let's find some sign of him being a power role.

And of course I'm bloody obsessed with getting the strong roles, it's the best way for my team to win killing the other leaders. That's the logical approach to this game, weakening the other factions as much as possible. I firmly believe Korlat is the best target and if you consider it, I have no better reason to want him dead than because I consider him a threat. If he's a threat to me then he's also a threat to everyone else not on his own team.

I think you need to do a reread or stop being disingenuous. I did NOT go for you yesterday (game day 1) quote me where I did or did you think you could slip that in to attack me and no-one would notice - bad Fener! And for your information I don't give two hoots about Korlat. Come up with a case and I'll change my vote, but 'I have an instinct' isn't a case or a defence.

All I have done is reflect your own arguments back at you and waited for a defence. You said (to paraphrase) people often make the mistake of talking about their own character/role. My point was in what way was that different to what you were doing? And how were you so sure Sil wasn't in your faction unless you are some power role yourself?

(And you have never answered the question about the arrogant I am ashamed I missed it or words to that effect.)

And why is there a big difference between what's on the first page and later on? I've been in games where players ahve been lynched precisely because of the first page.

This was day two, when as has been noted I already had vote on Fener.

Rashan, on Jun 12 2009, 01:06 AM, said:

Next!!!! I would vote for you...but, but....I just cant!!! SO, I will try and put the tag on Kess, for saying you might be "gasp!" the cult (which, yeah, Fener was in fact cult, oops!)

Ruse, on Jun 8 2009, 06:05 PM, said:

The meeting was longer and far more boring than anticipated, so I am behind with everything this evening.

Tell you what Fener, I would love to vote for you today if only for the fact you are such a cocksure pain, regrettably for me that's not a strong enough reason. My case on you yesterday was weak, but it was as good as it could be with the information available and for me it was the best one on the table. Whilst, your case that I was recruited flies just as well as…well pigs do - no offence! OMGUS all bar the vote.

And if you must know I am willing to vote Kesso, if only for his argument that you would be a good recruit for the cult. I mean that makes no sense, it's even worse than your argument on me! You were a breath away from a lynch, the recruiter would be nuts to do that - and even if he were then to my mind it's the recruiter we want not some ineffectual (in terms of power) know all…no offence again tongue.gif . Who would want to divert attention on to a 'suspected' recruit more than the recruiter?…After all he knows who he has turned.

@Liosan - I said yesterday that I would vote for Korlat if there was a case. Same thing today, in fact if you read my posts from earlier today (instead of relying on selective memory) you will see I raised him as a possible contender, and he remains my likely candidate for today, except for my concerns about Kessobahn as above.

This was NOT straight after as you try to imply, this was day 3.

Rashan, on Jun 12 2009, 01:06 AM, said:

BUT WAIT!!! THERES MORE!!!! FENER HAS 5 THATS RIGHT F-I-V-E votes and Kess has 2, 2 votes, Fener is L-3....Kess is L-6

Fener, on Jun 9 2009, 03:15 AM, said:

well then, I'd rather there's a valid candidate other than me, and considering the basis for lynching me, both Korlat and Kesso should be better choices.Remove votevote Kessobahn

Not true - Kess had three votes, and okay I was a fool and I believed Fener's reveal of the day before. I had already laid out my reasons. I had cases on Korlat and Kess. I didn't have long and the Kess train had more votes, ergo I went for him. This is what I mean by taking things out of context.

Rashan, on Jun 12 2009, 01:06 AM, said:

and then

Ruse, on Jun 9 2009, 03:25 AM, said:

Here only briefly I'm afraid.

vote Kessobahn

for the reasons I gave before, and because the vote on Korlat seems to have stalled.

3 hours left in the day, and you Vote Kess, not Fener tough, not the one with more votes, that you say you "attacked"?

Thats enough for me

Vote Ruse

Rashan, on Jun 12 2009, 01:13 AM, said:

Ruse, on Jun 9 2009, 01:42 PM, said:

@Korv - I didn't like my drive by either, but RL happens and I had no time to post anything more. I had explained my reasons the night before and knew I wouldn't be back before day timed out. The Korlat vote wasn't going anywhere, but from what people who know the books are saying, Carnival looks like bad news, so that's good.

On to other things. Much to my dismay (believe me I would love a solid reason to lynch him, his bossiness gets right up my nose) I believe Fener's reveal, which means my only other reason to vote for him, at this time, is that he might have been recruited. That could very well be true, but I still find it unlikely - he was still up for a lynch, so why would the recruiter risk it? We seem to be assuming that only ineffectual roles can be recruited, but we don't know that for sure, so why waste time recruiting someone that could be lynched the next day? That said, I don't have any other ideas at the moment and if nothing else comes up I will be glad of an excuse to get rid laugh.gif . I hope to have more time in about 2 - 3 hours and I will have another read through then.

Edit: Cross post

Heres more...attacking...no wait, thats not attacking!

Ruse, on Jun 9 2009, 06:06 PM, said:

Tennes, on Jun 9 2009, 07:12 PM, said:

Gamelon, on Jun 9 2009, 12:03 PM, said:

Ok Tennes this is getting annoying. You have almost no posts, suggesting you're coasting, and since you've come back you've made 3-4 posts that do nothing but complain about how we're trying to read into character names for ideas about potential allegiances. Absolutely nothing regarding the game itself.

I'm out for a bit...I'll drop a vote to put some pressure until he actually contributes something.

vote Tennes

Haha, can you be more obvious?

Hey, I'm finally able to be on and comment on your crazy stuff, and now I'm suddenly coasting - that's just nice, real nice. I had an opinion on the book obsession, and Fener asked about it, and I clarified. You can't seriously mean that is complaining - it's called playing the game, in case you forgot. killingme.gif

I still think it's dangerous to believe anything anyone says about the books implicitly, unless you can read it yourself. I'd chalk down the incessant book discussion to spam, if I wasn't afraid you'd smack me in the face. Oooh, I'm sooo scaaared.

I agree with this. I was (as I have said) grateful for the run down provided by Korlat, and Fener has seemingly added to our knowledge, but just as I argued in my case against Korlat, it shouldn't make anyone necessary. And we certainly can't take any of the information as gospel.

But other than Game and Tennes having their handbags drawn at dawn, I'm not sure what to think. I have to assume that Game and Fener are in a faction (unless of course Rashan's other intriguing scenario is right?), but then it seems equally clear that Tennes and Rashan are also buddies (possibly Korv as well...or it could just be that he and Rashan went to the same 'I'll read only the bits I want to' school - yes I do bear grudges tongue.gif ), so what does that prove?

Meh, there's still plenty of time. I am useless at maths so have no idea how close D Day is, but I guess the next lynch will be significant so I am not rushing to vote.





Edit: Meant to add I'm off to bed now. welcome.gif sleeping.gif

And while I "the great Rashan!" was pushing Fener like theres no tomorrow...you try and link me and Tennes together, because we are trying so hard to lynch FENER!!!!


In closing, you just lied, I want to see your quote where you voted for Fener...in fact you have only voted once the whole game, it was for Kessobahn. Shown above

So actually I did NOT lie, but you did a good job of reading my posts, so good a job you 'missed' the one where I voted on Fener, and you miscounted the votes on Kess. Basically your case consists of taking my posts out of context. I voted for Fener and kept my vote there. I admit, as have others, that I believed his reveal and so went for Kesso the next day. But I was hardly alone in that. I haven't been here for some of the critical moments, but like I said RL. Now you can believe that or not. I don't care. Mafia is a game. I don't lie about RL, but I would rather be lynched for not being here than for a case that is patently flawed. You accused me of lying, but I can prove I didn't, the rest is just BS. So at least be honest about why you want to lynch me.

Hood's Path, on Jun 12 2009, 08:49 AM, said:

I like the Case on Ruse, i dont think its completely inconceivable for a player to put a distancing vote on a fellow cult member.
Especially if its only a second vote which can easily be removed later on for any reason. (which is exactly what happened.)

It's even more plausible if ruse is the recruiter and is trying to distance himself from a recruit...the recruits know what he would be doing and would be cool with getting the vote.

As far as liosan voting for both game and fener.....well liosan only voted for game once it was obvious he was going to be lynched.
And your vote for fener was quite early on and you could easily have been recruited since then.
So to my mind, you could place Ruse as a potential recruiter if there are any left and liosan as a potential recruit.

As far as Telas is concerned i am willing to let him by today if he bloody contributes, i have RL issues myself and know that it DOES happen I would rather vote off someone based on evidence at hand than a random quiet player with RL issues that could very well be on my team.
I would recommend telas that if you are swamped and cant play then consider to just ask for a modkill, so that you dont become a distraction and we can carry on with the game.
I suppose you need to decide if staying in the game is going to hinder or be better for your team.

No it didn't.

I'm on half day today, so should be around a bit more, although I have got things to take care of, so don't get all upset if I disappear for a while.

[Korvalain]

Upset!