[XIcy Hot Patchx]

I remeber very early on in the novel Mallick Rel presented something that stated that Coltaine was to march to Aren (he is a representative of High Fist Pormqual, so Coltaine must obey, correct?). Why would they jeprodize the entire eastern front of Seven Cities? Was it for this reason that they began the march? Also, Hissar was taken over, so I'm thinking that this may be a reason as well. One last thing: what was Duiker doing in Hissar anyway? Was it all part of his plan to rescue Heboric?

[Lisheo]

I can't quite remember, but I think it was a combination of that and the uprisings and general chaos of 7C. Also, I got the impression Aren was very fortified, and so considered safe enough.

[Abyss]

Pormqual held the fleet at Aren, and all the major cities on the Chain of Dogs route were held by the Whirlwind, which meant even if Coltaine took one back and held it, there would be no relief and the refugees would die all the same. Aren was the only city within (near suicidal) reach that was held by the Malazans and could be expected to remain held.


- Abyss, ...also notes it would have been way less impressive if Coltaine just retook Hissar and sat there...

[amphibian]

Truth, on Jun 2 2009, 02:38 PM, said:

On one occassion somebody also utters his belief that without the refugees tying him down Coltaine would already have wiped out either Korbolo Dom's or Kamist Reloe's army. Don't remember which.

Without the refugees, he'd have been able to wipe out Kamist Reloe's army long before he actually did so at the Sekala crossing. One character says with three armies instead of the three-fifths of the one he had, he'd stomp the rebels so hard Seven Cities would never rise again.

Coltaine was forced out by the rebellion and brought the train to a point where Captain Sulmar, prodded on by the nobleborn, asked Coltaine to retake Ubaryd. In a different version of events - with Admiral Nok commanding a free to move Malazan fleet - that may have been viable. However, High Fist Pormqual listened to the advice of Mallick Rel and kept both the army stationed at Aren and Nok's fleet motionless until the very, very end of the Chain of Dogs.

So, as others have said, Coltaine took the refugees to Aren because that was the only city left on the continent that was still Malazan and could be held against the armies of the Whirlwind until the army under Tavore arrived.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 02 June 2009 - 07:30 PM

[Kryphon]

I'm still unclear why Rel is listened to by anyone. And why Mael doesn't stomp his little ass.. Oh yeah Mael doesnt give a crap about anything.

[Night Hawk]

Not to mention Pormqual was a coward and wanted more troops to protect his hide.

And who knows maybe some ascendants had their hands in it ....

[Corabb Bhilan Thenu'alas]

Actually, I think he chose Aren for the sole reason of screwing with Sulmars head. Couldn't strip his rank, so we'll go to Aren to prove a point, evven if it kills 'em all!

[masan's saddle]

Concerning the OP.

I am half way through a reread of DHG and seem to remember that Pormqual sends Mallick Rell to meet Coltaine when he lands at Hissar, it is interpreted as an insult. Duiker is attatched to the 7th and along with Rell meets Coltaine and the Wickans as they get off the transports. I might be incorrect here but i'm sure Rell has orders from Pormqual for Coltaine to march to Aren straight away ? Prior to the start of the uprising. Coltaine and Bult basically tell him to bugger off.

It is hinted at that Coltaine had a long private audience with the Empress before he left....... Combine this with the specific training Coltaine puts the 7th through in that deserted city on a hill thingy ( Crowd control/ dealing with panicky civilians, played ably by his Wickans ) and Coltaines general stoicism about what is going on....,

Coltaine was always going to Aren, he was just trying to level the playing field a bit. I'm not sure how much more to say as the realities become clearer in later books, although to be fair i'm VERY hazy about what they actually were !!!!

[MTS]

Coltaine and the Seventh marched to Aren because they had no other choice. Like someone else mentioned, the only reliably held Malazan city was Aren; everything else was the Whirlwind's. Now, Coltaine originally did not want to march to Aren, he wanted Pormqual's army and Nok's fleet especially to leave Aren and help quash the uprising. They didn't, however, so to save his army, and the refugees, he had no choice but to go to Aren. Although with MS's info there, I'm not sure now it wasn't always his intention, but even if it was, he had to know it was suicide, so what's in it for Coltaine, even if the Empress commands it? I doubt he would willingly annihilate not only the Wickan fighting population but the whole Seventh as well, merely out of loyalty to the Empress.

[D'rek]

The whole bit with Rel passing on Pormqual's orders was for a military inspection or some such, and the 7th's command pointed out that Pormqual could just take a warren and come to Hissar himself instead (and of course they said this in a more insulting tone). That bit doesn't really have any connection to their plan/route on the Chain of Dogs.

And yeah, Duiker was 'officially' in Hissar to witness and record the Wickans' arrival, but he had arranged for him to be sent there so that he could get on a boat and go save Heboric.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 03 June 2009 - 02:27 PM

[Mirthmonkey]

Is there any mention of Rel enchanting Pormqual, or is Pormqual just a guy who inexplicably became High Fist in the normally well commanded and very aggressive Empire despite being a cowardly idiot? Their relationship reminds me of Wormtongue in Lord of the Rings.

[Eispeis]

Mirthmonkey, on Jun 3 2009, 08:49 PM, said:

Is there any mention of Rel enchanting Pormqual, or is Pormqual just a guy who inexplicably became High Fist in the normally well commanded and very aggressive Empire despite being a cowardly idiot? Their relationship reminds me of Wormtongue in Lord of the Rings.

It's been a year since i read DG so I won't be able to answer definitively, but there are several options to choose from:

1. The rumored Malazan "inverted command structure," placing the idiots on top and the brilliant ones, like Whiskeyjack, as sergeants. Not a very convincing explanation IMO.
2. Pormqual was ordered to remain within Aren's walls by the Empress. Possible IMO.
3. Pormqual was a coward who'd been way too comfortable for way too long. Possible IMO.
4. Mallick Rel did some compelling with or without magic. Definitive IMO.

I'd say a cheeky little mix of 4 with 2 or 3.

Just wait until you read about the aftermath of the Chain of Dogs in Bonehunters Can't really explain too much here without spoiling, so I won't.

[XIcy Hot Patchx]

Actually I'm noticing things that I didn't notice before, though I'm not sure if my speculation is true. I'm quite sure that when the Wickans arrive at Hissar, somebody refers to Mallick Rel as a Jhistal. I recently reached the part where Kalam confronts the squad of people who are part of the Whirlwind that are about to attack Minala and them. One of them states that "the Jhistal is inside" or something along those lines. Though I may be mistaken in all of this, I've convinced myself that the only reason the High Fist is staying in Aren is because of Mallick Rel's influence on him and that Rel is on the Whirlwind's side. Can anyone confirm this? (This may be spoilers for later books, but I've only read up to HoC)

[caladanbrood]

I don't think Rel is on the whirlwind's side, specifically. Mallick Rel works for Mallick Rel, and he's playing a long game Will stop there for fear of spoilers. However, anything Pormqual did, it's very safe to say, he did because Rel told him to. The man has virtually ne free will at all, from what is shown in the book.

[Mirthmonkey]

Eispeis, on Jun 3 2009, 03:24 PM, said:

1. The rumored Malazan "inverted command structure," placing the idiots on top and the brilliant ones, like Whiskeyjack, as sergeants. Not a very convincing explanation IMO.
2. Pormqual was ordered to remain within Aren's walls by the Empress. Possible IMO.
3. Pormqual was a coward who'd been way too comfortable for way too long. Possible IMO.
4. Mallick Rel did some compelling with or without magic. Definitive IMO.

I'd say a cheeky little mix of 4 with 2 or 3.

Just wait until you read about the aftermath of the Chain of Dogs in Bonehunters Can't really explain too much here without spoiling, so I won't.

1. Not convincing at all. The highly competent Dujek is also a High Fist. The Empire has a highly successful army. Their command structure isn't like a typical corporation.
2. I'm only about 250 pages into book 3, but so far this explanation doesn't make any sense at all. The Empress doesn't want Aren's troops to come to the aid of Coltaine's army? Huh?
3. We're still left with how the hell did he become a high fist in a very powerful empire's army.
4. Well yeah. Though see #3 if Rel pulled it off with some kind of magical compulsion. Pormqual is pathetic.

[tremain]

Rell wanted Coltaine and his army out of Hissar so it would fall without resistance, thats why he talked Promqual into making Coltaine go there. Cept Coltaine told him to go to hell which changed their plans. Afterwards Coltaine had no other choice than to attempt the trip to Aren because it was the last city held by the empire and no help was coming, it was either go there or find a good place to die. Mallick Rell had complete control over Pormqual, just look at how helpless he is at the end always asking him what to do and what to think so whatever Pormqual did or did not do was all because thats what Rell wanted to happen and no other reason. Rell had Nok pull his navy away, Rell prevented any help from being sent to Coltaine, Rell convinced Pormqual to attack the whirlwind army, Rell made him surrender.

[nzd]

Well i think its because Aren was the next and perhaps the only standing malazan stronghold on that part of the continent and its the place for coltaine to march to.....