[alestar]

Wow, that was harsh...GRRM is a good writer, a lot better than most.

The Song of Ice and Fire is a great series to date (IMHO), even thought Feast was a bit weak (although I reserve judgement until we get the other half of the book...).

I've said it before: this series got me back into reading fantasy and I recommend it to anyone.

[Tuberski]

I bought aGoT when it came out in paperback(97). I tried to read it. Stopped. picked it up again, put it down. Didn't pick it up again until around 2006. Slogged through the first book, figured the ending was better than the beginning and read the rest of the books.

I'm not disappointed.

[Assail]

K so I bought the first book and it's sitting on my bed about 75 pages in. So far it's extremely boring, jumping from chapter to chapter laying everything out quite abruptly. I mean, the man, thus far, has no sense of eloquence or fluidity in his writing and I'm having trouble pushing through it. Continue do you guys think? Does it get better? Thus far it's not the spectacular type of writing that I've heard and thus expected from GRRM.

[Tuberski]

I'm about 90 pages in. It starts to get better in about 10 pages.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Assail, on Jun 10 2009, 08:57 PM, said:

K so I bought the first book and it's sitting on my bed about 75 pages in. So far it's extremely boring, jumping from chapter to chapter laying everything out quite abruptly. I mean, the man, thus far, has no sense of eloquence or fluidity in his writing and I'm having trouble pushing through it. Continue do you guys think? Does it get better? Thus far it's not the spectacular type of writing that I've heard and thus expected from GRRM.

GRRM's strong point is his characters. As you get deeper in and get to know them, the quality of the writing really shines through. The series is about these interesting people and how they act and interact. It's a very different style from SE. Until then, it's possible to get sidetracked by his flaws, such as his fetish for heraldry, food, and clothes.

It's also about expectations. Especially the first book, if you're wanting "high" fantasy with lots of magic and monsters, it's not happening. Magic is a very small part of the first book.

[Assail]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Jun 10 2009, 10:27 PM, said:

Assail, on Jun 10 2009, 08:57 PM, said:

K so I bought the first book and it's sitting on my bed about 75 pages in. So far it's extremely boring, jumping from chapter to chapter laying everything out quite abruptly. I mean, the man, thus far, has no sense of eloquence or fluidity in his writing and I'm having trouble pushing through it. Continue do you guys think? Does it get better? Thus far it's not the spectacular type of writing that I've heard and thus expected from GRRM.

GRRM's strong point is his characters. As you get deeper in and get to know them, the quality of the writing really shines through. The series is about these interesting people and how they act and interact. It's a very different style from SE. Until then, it's possible to get sidetracked by his flaws, such as his fetish for heraldry, food, and clothes.

It's also about expectations. Especially the first book, if you're wanting "high" fantasy with lots of magic and monsters, it's not happening. Magic is a very small part of the first book.

Fair enough. I'll keep that in mind as I read. I'm not looking for a whole lot of monster slaying, magic wielding, tweaked out super fantastical half faerie freaks. Just something that is a tad more engaging then it currently is. I'm sure it'll improve. I'll keep truckin on.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Another thing to keep in mind is that the first book of a long series is often a little slower, as it's setting everything up for later. Especially the first half or so. Remember GotM the first time you read it?

Of course, it's possible the GRRM just doesn't appeal to you. It happens.

[Assail]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Jun 10 2009, 11:12 PM, said:

Another thing to keep in mind is that the first book of a long series is often a little slower, as it's setting everything up for later. Especially the first half or so. Remember GotM the first time you read it?

Of course, it's possible the GRRM just doesn't appeal to you. It happens.

Yeah I thought about this and I took GotM into consideration. GotM had me interested though, so far GRRM has just really abruptly thrown all these characters in my face every new chapter. You're right, it might not appeal to me, we'll see in a couple hundred pages.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

At least commit to reading the entire first book. He's gotten enough fans and praise to warrant that. If you're still not interested then, screw it.

[MecnunK]

No matter what criticisms I may have of GRRM's inability to understand time and its affect as well as fan's expectations, the first 3 books are beautiful. Definitely worth a read as the characters are rich and well rounded following an interesting storyline that leaves you wanting more once you have become familiar with the initial characters.

[No-God]

Many people consider A Song of Ice & Fire to be one of the very best high fantasy series. I usually agree with that.

If you have only read 1/3 of book one, I don't think you're in the position to be judging an entire book series. Gardens of the Moon wasn't a very good book, but the series (so far) is one of the best ever written, in my opinion.

[RangerSG]

No-God, on Jul 12 2009, 07:22 PM, said:

Many people consider A Song of Ice & Fire to be one of the very best high fantasy series. I usually agree with that.

If you have only read 1/3 of book one, I don't think you're in the position to be judging an entire book series. Gardens of the Moon wasn't a very good book, but the series (so far) is one of the best ever written, in my opinion.

I concur. The first book is a very good introduction. The next two books are two of the best in modern fantasy. I think he regrets making the Stark children so young in book 1 too. I also think he feels he boxed himself into a corner

Spoiler

killing or removing from play so many PoVs in Storm of Swords.

I don't think anything in this series matches the best of the Malazan series. But I think it's a short step behind until the murk of the fourth book.

[Abyss]

It's not like there's a set 'how to' guide to ten doorstopper book epics. If GRRM had churned out ADWD quickly enough, i don't think FFC would have received such a negative backlash. The longer the delay, the less impressive the book becomes.

I imagine if DWD is great, then FFC's shortcomings will be overlooked. On the other hand, if DANCE is another book of set-up with little pay-off, we'll be seeing more of the same.

I like GRRM. Except for the cliffhangers, and that so many stories were just drawn out ways to move character A from point B to point C, i even liked FEAST.

But, another book like that and i'm likely to just ignore the series for a few novels. I did this with WoT, after PoD i just ignored the series then picked up a few books in one shot (hardcovers for $4.99... little ventured, little gained).


SE has given us a solid, more or less self-contained story in every doorstopper. It's unfortunate other authors can't manage this.


- Abyss, spent a weekend under a wall once...

[teholbeddict]

I agree with Abyss on this one. AFFC was definitely the weakest book of the series and left a lot to be desired. I'm hoping Dance will be vastly better and redeem the series as a whole. I'm hoping a part of the reason he's taken all of this time to write the book, is that he is trying to make it the best it can possibly be. He has stated that he was unhappy with the work he had completed, which is part of the reason for the wait. If the material he had written was more along the lines of AFFC, then I am happy he's taken the time to re-write and re-work it. I think continuing in the direction he was, would be a big mistake. If Dance comes out and is anything less than stellar, after all of this time, I think it may finish me on the series. My enthusiasm for ASOIF has been waning for quite some time. I'm already at the point of not feeling the need to read Dance the minute it comes out. If the book leaves me disappointed, I will probably be hard pressed to finish off the rest of the series.

[D'rek]

I read these a while back and didn't like them. The writing was good and the characterization was fine, the worldbuilding was excellent, too. But I found the plot, for the most part, very predictable in a lot of places. Some major bits were occasionally a bit of a shock, but they would all happen super suddenly, whereras lesser bits that were a lot less important but super predictable started to bore me out. As someone already mentioned, they were very much like some RJ material where you knew what would happen but it would keep not happening in a boring fashion for quite a while. It seemed to me like GRRM just refused to not go back to a character every certain interval in time, both writing and chronologically, and hence you get people having a chapter about nothing whilst they trek through the forest.

Example:

Spoiler

Oh look, Arya is alone in a monastery with nowhere to go and no personality where she could learn all sorts of mysterious skills and eventually become an assassin. Let's have her be a servant girl for a whole chapter and then she can debate giving up nothing at all for yet another chapter since she has so many other options and places to go that there is the serious possibility she won't join up with the assassin monks.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 13 July 2009 - 02:58 PM

[Pilgrim]

At the time I started ASoIaF, (a couple of years ago), it was absolutely the best fantasy fiction I had ever read, including Tolkein. That said, aside from tolkein, my fantasy exposure consisted of Stephen King's Dark Tower series, Goodkind, LKH and a few other "urban fantasy" authors. If it weren't for looking for something to read while waiting for ADOD, I would have never discovered Erikson, which to me is hands down better than GRRM. So...I'll never be one to put GRRM down, and am anxiously awaiting ADOD still, but the series has lost some of its luster after reading Malazan.

Still better than a lot of what's out there.

Pilgrim