[Darkwatch]

Since I'm in a similar position to Mez here let me voice my current opinion of the series so far.

It's ok.

As to why it's okay.
The first book was a good read, while there was the problem of the pet wolves and such, the politicking in King's Landing and the rapid events near the end helped it along. Not to mention it was the first book in a series, and so I would give it more of a chance.

The second book on the other hand was... Long, and massively boring except for a few places. I had to work through it, and having to work through a book is a bad thing.
Most of everything going on at Harrenhal could have been halved easily.
Tyrion saves the book, there is no other reason to read it then to see what he's doing in King's Landing.

I have the third book waiting to be read and I have not bought the other books yet. They're at the end of the reading list.
I will read them, since there's some interesting stuff going on (John in the North, anything with Tyrion) but they won't be recommended highly by me to anyone.
They are exceptionally slow paced, and I thought Michelle West had a monopoly on that. But there were just some parts where I wanted to skip through the chapters.

This post has been edited by Darkwatch: 29 May 2009 - 03:44 PM

[teholbeddict]

Well I definitely can't really dispute anything that DW has said here. When I first read the series, I thought it was quite good, not overly fantastic, but it would have ranked in my top ten. I re-read it last year and found a lot of the faults with it that DW and MEz have. I think it's because the quality of fantasy material is improving all the time. There are so many fantastic series and books out there now that this one no longer stacks up for me in the way it once did. There is no denying that GRRM is a good writer and has a nice series going here, but there is far better available. I will get the next book when it comes out, but I won't be rushing to read it in the way I once would have. I think there is a lot of hype associated with this series. Many people think it is one of the best out there, and so people pick the books up, but more and more it seems they do not think the books live up to the hype. AFFC is definitely the weakest of the series, but all series have a weak link somewhere. I am hoping Dance will make up for that and make me more enthusiastic about ASOIF again. I'm sure there are many who will disagree with me, but that is my honest opinion on the matter.

[caladanbrood]

teholbeddict, on May 29 2009, 05:40 PM, said:

I am hoping Dance will make up for that and make me more enthusiastic about ASOIF again. I'm sure there are many who will disagree with me, but that is my honest opinion on the matter.

Definitely agree. I have high hopes for ADWD, it could make or break the whole series for me.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Well with all the tonsof stuff that should be hapenning in hat book, I've got hope. After all I'm actually of the opinion that AFFC wasn't as bad as most of you say. It surely wasn't on par with the first three, but it wasn't something to throw away.

[Werthead]

Obviously, I think it's a great series. I also read it as the initial books came out a long time before any of the hype built up. I'm not sure any book could live up to the hype now surrounding the series.

I don't think they are flawless. AGoT takes a little bit too long to get going and in ASoS you could see GRRM starting to go a bit overboard with the details. Chapters he'd have left out in AGoT as being irrelevant to the plot are included in ASoS and are sometimes a bit tedious. However, the best things about ASoS completely obliterate that problem, which only becomes a real issue in Book 4.

GRRM's other strength is his almost unmatched ability to skip genres. ASoIaF is a great epic fantasy series, Fevre Dream is an almost unmatched horror novel, The Armageddon Rag is a solid urban fantasy (kind of) and Dreamsongs is the best single-author collection I've ever read.

Quote

You're saying that A Feast For Crows was BETTER than Toll the Hounds? Are you high? When did you get struck on the head? Because if it was recently we might be able to cure you. Otherwise your opinion is provably wrong.

I had a higher opinion of TTH before Erikson said, "Well that's it folks, you want more on Genabackis you have to wait for some book someone else is writing which might be out in a decade's time and if you want more on Karsa, tough, you have to wait until the sequel trilogy I'm planning to write like eight years down the line. Meanwhile let's go back to Lether 'cause those guys are so fascinating and I didn't kill off all the interesting ones last time around" (or something to that effect).

That said, we are probably going to have to sit out a full book to find out what's going on next with Jaime and co, and Erikson may well have gotten back to Karsa and co by then, so maybe the difference isn't that great

[Dolorous Menhir]

NO MORE TARGARYENS

[Slum]

I wonder how HBO is gonna handle Dany's underage sex from the book in the show... Meh, they'll prolly just make her 18...

[Sir Thursday]

Slumgullion Spitteler, on May 31 2009, 02:20 PM, said:

I wonder how HBO is gonna handle Dany's underage sex from the book in the show... Meh, they'll prolly just make her 18...

I believe they're going to make her 15/16, which I guess is about as low as they can push it without too much controversy...


Sir Thursday

[Volkh]

I love these books are it is still my fav series to date. Saying that I also picked up the books as a junior in high school when A Game of Thrones was in hard back. At that point i had just finished reading all of the to date Wheel of Time books and had become very sad to see how that series was going. I had read of course all of Lord of the Rings and all of Dragonlance and most of Eddings. Plus many other fantasy books, but most seemed to follow the high fantasy path were the good guys are good guys and they beat up the bad guys and pretty much no one ever dies that's a good guy. So reading Martin after that was a major shock to the system. I remember being like, wow I can't believe this stuff is happening. Even the PoV style that he writes as was new. I have personally given more Martin books away then I can count and have gotten several friends into fantasy after I got them to read them. That being said, i've currently been trying to get them to read the Malaz books lol.

As for AFFC, ya it was weeker then SoS, but I just reread it a few months ago and didn't horrible like I had thought it was when it first came out. I rather enjoyed it reading it on it's own marret rather then every other page going, man were is this person and that person. It's not the righting of AFFC that makes it kinda suck, it is honestly because it is majorly about char's that you don't love and truly want to follow, but it is information that have to have to push the story forward. And also he never wanted to write it and most of aDoD. He orginally had it planed for 6 books. Three books to deal with the war of the five kinds and three books to deal with the war of the dawn. And there was supose to be a five year gape in the story between the two sets of books to allow chars to grow and mature. But as it would end up he couldn't do that after he relised the story of what happens in that five years had to be told.

volkh out

[Mezla PigDog]

I have about 100 pages left to read. The characters are mildly more interesting. The political intrigue certainly has potential but I am finding the execution to be highly irritating. GRRM is clearly obsessed with the pageantry of medieval knights. So much of the writing is taken up with what feels like endless descriptions of family crests, armour and banners arrayed on the battlefield. Maybe it is a symptom of being the setup book for a new world but I'm not sure ASoIaF is for me.

[bwgan]

I've read the first two, and they are okay*, certainly better than a lot of other stuff out there, but I refuse to invest any more time until the series is done. I don't intend to be kept hanging like so many of his fans...I know, I know, SE he is spoiling us with all his books but I have been there before...with someone...can't remember who it was...but I hate to be kept waiting.


bwgan patiently impatient since 1876...or it might be 1976...can't remember


(*What? You want a proper review or something? Yeah, right! Look I can't remember what they were about...except the wolf bit...grr GRRM...just grr.)

[Werthead]

Dolorous Menhir, on May 31 2009, 02:15 PM, said:

NO MORE TARGARYENS

DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING (careful now).

There's only one left (or is there? Ha! I'm only kidding. Or am I?), so your wish looks like it's going to be granted (or is it?).

[Mezla PigDog]

I finished! Unfortunately, GRRM gets a big thumbs down from me. Bizarrely (from what I hear others say his strengths are), I thought weak characterisation let it down. The plot contained some good ideas but the style grated. Of the characters, only Tyrion stands out and that is simply because he is self-aware. The others read like cardboard cut outs. He covered Heroic Youth, Naive Princess, Rebellious Tom Boy, Strong Mother, Spiteful Queen, Spoilt Child, Honourable Father, Henry VIII, amongst others. I would be interested to discover how things get resolved considering the dual threat of the Targaryens and The Others but I would rather read spoilers online than go through more of that prose. Definitely not for me!

[MTS]

To each their own. I think it gets better, though.

[Abyss]

Mezla PigDog, on May 28 2009, 03:21 PM, said:

Abyss, on May 28 2009, 07:05 PM, said:

Spoiler

You hate yourself for not following my spoilers warnings now, don't you Mezla?

Curse you Abyss. Curse yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.

I am immune to spoilers ever since Cougar, Brood and Tiste spoiled the end of TtH for me at the last Crimbo meet up (TtH spoiler alert)

Spoiler

'steak pies' is not a difficult code to break!!

i DID warn you. I DID. really. it's RIGHT THERE...

Bauchelain the Evil, on May 29 2009, 01:21 PM, said:

Well with all the tonsof stuff that should be hapenning in hat book, I've got hope. After all I'm actually of the opinion that AFFC wasn't as bad as most of you say. It surely wasn't on par with the first three, but it wasn't something to throw away.

What bugs me about FFC is the sense that a lot of nothing happens. In a book that big, i just don't accept that many pages of set-up and epilogue. Yes, it's a decent entry in the bigger story, but overall every prior book had at least a major step or two, and this felt like a lot of foreplay. And ending

Spoiler

Brienne's

storyline like that...

Spoiler

the sword comes down, oh no! what will happen?!?!...

was unforgiveably feeble, on par with RJ's

Spoiler

Matt spending two books stuck under a wall

.

Slumgullion Spitteler, on May 31 2009, 09:20 AM, said:

I wonder how HBO is gonna handle Dany's underage sex from the book in the show... Meh, they'll prolly just make her 18...

I'm more curious about whether they start the series with the incest plus throwing a seven yr old off a tall building.

- Abyss, ...will, in fact, giggle if they do that... i'm a horrible person.

[Dolorous Menhir]

This is the most negative Martin thread ever.

I'm shocked.

[polishgenius]

Abyss, on Jun 2 2009, 03:09 PM, said:

I'm more curious about whether they start the series with the incest plus throwing a seven yr old off a tall building.

- Abyss, ...will, in fact, giggle if they do that... i'm a horrible person.

Spoilers for the aGoT pilot:

Spoiler

Afaik the producers have in fact confirmed what the final words of the pilot episode will be. Take a wild guess...

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 02 June 2009 - 09:44 PM

[Illuyankas]

polishgenius, on Jun 2 2009, 10:44 PM, said:

Abyss, on Jun 2 2009, 03:09 PM, said:

I'm more curious about whether they start the series with the incest plus throwing a seven yr old off a tall building.

- Abyss, ...will, in fact, giggle if they do that... i'm a horrible person.

Spoilers for the aGoT pilot:

Spoiler

Afaik the producers have in fact confirmed what the final words of the pilot episode will be. Take a wild guess...

Spoiler

The things I do for ADWD chapters

?

[polishgenius]

Bingo.

[Werthead]

Dolorous Menhir, on Jun 2 2009, 10:25 PM, said:

This is the most negative Martin thread ever.

I'm shocked.

Not even remotely close It's not even the most negative Martin thread I've ever seen on Malazanempire.

Quote

I'm more curious about whether they start the series with the incest plus throwing a seven yr old off a tall building.

Seriously, do people never watch HBO? Rome, The Wire and especially Deadwood had stuff in them that makes even the 'grittiest' stuff in ASoIaF look mild by comparison.