[Morgoth]

So, while we're on the topic, Silencer. Which of the TES games do you believe to be superior, and why?

[Gothos]

Silencer, on 03 February 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

INB4 "Akavir"

Fuck you, I was building up to this for the past 3 minutes!!!

It could make sense to be Akavir, though. Black Marsh, as much as I love me some Argonians, doesn't look feasible at all - same goes for Valenwood and Elseweyr. Hammerfell has been done in both Daggerfall and Redguard, High Rock was done in Daggerfall as well. If you want to be picky, all of them were done in Arena, but bitch please.

What remains - Atmora? We've just had Skyrim, more of the same, or even less - just frozen hills everywhere? No.

Summerset could be a possibility... There's nothing to suggest we can't get another jump in timeline like Oblivion - Skyrim, maybe the next TES game will be another 200 years into the future and SI has been subdued once more // Thalmor subdued the rest of Tamriel. Both of these, especially the latter, would make a great fit for starting as a prisoner again. Lore tied in with last bits of Talos sympathizers underground, maybe tied in with a returned Talos as well? Prevent the altmer from undoing existance.

Then Akavir... perhaps Thalmor won, and the other races undergo some great escape / migration to Akavir to find refuge? Plenty of new races, plenty of new places and lore, so I say why not? It would give them a large amount of design freedom. The player could also start as an opportunist/pirate in the new lands that got caught and we have a prisoner start once more. Stranger in a strange land?


So yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if it was either Summerset or Akavir.

[Silencer]

Morgoth, on 03 February 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

So, while we're on the topic, Silencer. Which of the TES games do you believe to be superior, and why?

No.

Gothos, on 03 February 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Silencer, on 03 February 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

INB4 "Akavir"

Fuck you, I was building up to this for the past 3 minutes!!!

BWAHAHAH!

Quote

It could make sense to be Akavir, though. Black Marsh, as much as I love me some Argonians, doesn't look feasible at all - same goes for Valenwood and Elseweyr. Hammerfell has been done in both Daggerfall and Redguard, High Rock was done in Daggerfall as well. If you want to be picky, all of them were done in Arena, but bitch please.

To be fair, Beyond Skyrim are tackling all of those provinces. They're not unworkable, just very difficult, and some liberties have to be taken with the lore. However, Akavir brings with it an ENTIRE new set of races, populations, locations, lore, languages (plural), weapons, creatures, etc. Now THAT...that is a workload and a half. Not to mention it's even more fantastical than Morrowind in terms of creature design.

As for being done before - the only ones I count are the post-transition-to-3d games. Cyrodiil and Morrowind/Vvardenfell. Heck, they brought Solstheim back in Skyrim. But prior to the 3d transition, it's basically open-book for them to revisit. 99% of gamers who are going to play TESVI haven't played Daggerfall, after all. And of course, Arena doesn't count. XD But even so, those are still fresh worlds. I don't count Redguard because mobile game of no note or real legitimacy.

Black Marsh is doable. It's certainly less difficult than Valenwood or Elseweyr, imo. But still on the lower side of 'likely'.

Quote

What remains - Atmora? We've just had Skyrim, more of the same, or even less - just frozen hills everywhere? No.

Summerset could be a possibility... There's nothing to suggest we can't get another jump in timeline like Oblivion - Skyrim, maybe the next TES game will be another 200 years into the future and SI has been subdued once more // Thalmor subdued the rest of Tamriel. Both of these, especially the latter, would make a great fit for starting as a prisoner again. Lore tied in with last bits of Talos sympathizers underground, maybe tied in with a returned Talos as well? Prevent the altmer from undoing existance.

I think the issue with another large time jump is that it renders a lot of the lorescape pointless. It means they created a giant plot-thread with looming consequences and then nuked it/catapulted it into the future. Look at the past four TES games before Skyrim. All set in 3E, circa early 400's. I'd wager another game or two in the early 4E at *least* before we see a reshuffle like that again. It would make sense, too - the Alduin plot has greater implications than just for Skyrim, and watching the Thalmor drama play out/being a part of it would make for a lot of juicy Altmer-related threats as well as Top Bad Guy of the Game-threats. Remember the tidbits you get in the College's plotline with the Psijic Order dude? They've got plenty to play with in the current timeline, it'd be both foolish and a waste of effort to throw it all away.

Remember, every time they timeskip, they have to create enough lore to fill in the jump. That's hard to do once - imagine doing it again. This way, the new books can fill in more of the same space, rather than having to account for an entirely new period. Sure, they can get around that "many books were lost to the fires of the Thalmor" style, but it's a cop-out, lol.

Quote

Then Akavir... perhaps Thalmor won, and the other races undergo some great escape / migration to Akavir to find refuge? Plenty of new races, plenty of new places and lore, so I say why not? It would give them a large amount of design freedom. The player could also start as an opportunist/pirate in the new lands that got caught and we have a prisoner start once more. Stranger in a strange land?


So yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if it was either Summerset or Akavir.

Again, the additional work required to make Akavir, plus the LOST WORK for all the other provinces, which get thrown out the door with a move to Akavir, actually makes it *less* likely. Design freedom is not such an issue here as to make that degree of "ground up" rebuilding something they would want. Heck, they're constantly stripping features down just to make the established games in established provinces feasible in the timeframes they have - what on earth would drive them to up the workload tenfold?

Stranger in a strange land is a nice concept, though. But I think it would be difficult to work.

The main thread left dangling for Akavir is that the PC from Morrowind/the Nerevarine reportedly went there (and never came back) after the events of that game. It's a nice hook, and could make for a good segway, but it isn't something I'd personally be pursuing when there is an in-progress plot and plenty of land left to explore on Tamriel. Not with the cost that would imply, in dev hours and resource/asset creation.

Summerset Isle, post-Thalmor-beatdown, could work. It's just such a small province, with a lot of mystery in it. I don't know how it would end up. Could be cool. IMO, more likely to be ruined. Because the main thing that makes it cool is the secrecy and rampant rumours about what goes on there - seeing behind *that* curtain, done right, would be awesome. Done wrong, it would ruin the place. And going there once it's been assaulted and broken, with the Altmer forced to allow outsiders in...would any of that mystery or allure remain? Not enough, I think.



So yeah, I can't really see Akavir, at all. It's only got one thing going for it, and that's the Nerevarine link. But otherwise it's a lot of work just in itself, never mind other stuff left aside for ~8 to 12 years of RL time (which is basically 'wasted').





ETA: One major reason I'm being conservative this time around, is that last time I really wanted to NOT go to Skyrim because it was fairly bland and lacking in the 'magic' that Morrowind's otherness brought (and fairly similar, culturally/environmentally, to Cyrodiil/Bruma). I think Bethesda, however, will continue that trend. Thus High Rock/Hammerfell. It's the last human-predominant provinces, after all. Everything else is Mer or Beast. Or Akavirri. XD

[Gothos]

So we're left with what... High Rock again? Well, it could work. The breton way of life makes a perfect environment for "adventuring". We'll see.

Mind you, I slammed headfirst into ESO pre-order bonuses and....... I'm not going to buy or play this game anymore. What comes in:
5 days earlier access - fine, fine.
vanity pet - cool, alright.
bonus treasure maps - giving access to treasure chests with additional loot - hey, wait a minute...
any race playable in any alliance - now, what the fu...
Digital Collector's Edition adds:
mudcrab vanity pet, imperial white horse, rings of mara - exp bonus for playing together. - whatever.
IMPERIAL RACE PLAYABLE. - ok FUCK YOU TENDFOLD.

That's all exclusive content. Easy, phased loot; immersion-breaking race allowance and an additional race that's not obtainable in the game in any way at all?

Well, fuck you. Fuck you, Bethesda. I'm staying with WoW, tyvm, and you can burn in hell.

[Silencer]

*fuck you Zenimax. (Online studios)

But yeah. It was already in my "not interested" pile, but that shit is ridiculous. Mind you, the last I read, the alliances were already pretty lore-breaking, which for me means there's no immersion to break by messing it up in in-game terms also. That's just a really dickish, money-grubbing move. XD

[Gothos]

Well if it's a design feature this big like making factions, at least stick with it. If they were to make a pan-Tamriel faction like, they should've started with this premise. WIthin the frame of this design, it's just an artificial limitation for those who don't pay up.

Also, don't single out Zenimax for this. Bethesda has full control over how this game comes out, Zenimax if anything are more on the developer side who'd never do this. This is the suits doing a business.
Do I have to remind you of the Horse Armor Pack for Oblivion? B isn't blameless here, and their is the final word.

edit: I mean, Zenimax is the guys who refused to change the content to fit "Teen" ESRB rating, and the game stayed as Mature.

This post has been edited by Gothos: 03 February 2014 - 08:36 AM

[Morgoth]

colour me shocked. Shocked.

[Silencer]

Gothos, on 03 February 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

Well if it's a design feature this big like making factions, at least stick with it. If they were to make a pan-Tamriel faction like, they should've started with this premise. WIthin the frame of this design, it's just an artificial limitation for those who don't pay up.

Also, don't single out Zenimax for this. Bethesda has full control over how this game comes out, Zenimax if anything are more on the developer side who'd never do this. This is the suits doing a business.
Do I have to remind you of the Horse Armor Pack for Oblivion? B isn't blameless here, and their is the final word.

edit: I mean, Zenimax is the guys who refused to change the content to fit "Teen" ESRB rating, and the game stayed as Mature.

That depends who you're talking about.

Bethesda Game Studios doesn't have a hand in this, realistically.

BGS is owned by Bethesda Softworks (Publisher) who are dicks. They, in turn, are a subsidiary of Zenimax Media (bigger dicks), who also own ZeniMax Online Studios (making the game).

Bethesda Game Studios, by Todd Howard, would not fuck this up as bad.

Bethesda is just another name for ZeniMax, as it's their publishing house. HOWEVER, unlike BGS, who are a division of Bethesda Softworks, ZOS are not under them, directly. They are instead a direct subsidiary of ZeniMax (hence the naming convention).


Thus, the people who are truly pulling TESO into the pit, are Zenimax. Not BGS, and not even Bethesda Softworks, except on behalf of ZeniMax. XD

[Silencer]

Also, I am lol'ing quite hard at your post on the TESO page on Facebook. You, sir, have just invoked the wrath of the Fanboys. Including, it seems, the "you're not a fan if you don't like ANY part of ANY of the games" angle. ROFL.

ETA: Nevermind. I just started reading the other posts on there, and MY GOD what a typical load of drivel for an MMO. Bunch of people complaining about people complaining about the game they like doing something they don't mind but other people hate? "ZOMG, if you don't like it, don't buy it! Don't come here and complain about stuff and RUIN IT FOR OTHERS WHO LIKE THE GAME ANYWAY NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO!!! wah wah wah".

It's hilarious, but sad. XD

[Gothos]

Yeah I was trying to reason with one but that's not going to happen. Ah well.

On a more serious note, I'll buy it when they make imperial/race unlock available through ingame content. If not, well, I'm not giving them a single penny.
Especially looking at Warlords of Draenor later this year, and EVE wormhole space being quite alluring...

[Tiste Simeon]

I know where TESVI is going to be. They will "mysteriously" find another continent on Nirn but not Tamriel, and it will be where the Dwemer originated from. The Elder Scrolls VI: Dwemerland. You heard it here first!

[Gothos]

don't even... joke...

[Obdigore]

New beta weekend for ESO. Should get to try out some group content (dungeons) this weekend, pretty excited-ish.

[Silencer]

So, courtesy of a generous forum member, I'm going to be playing in the ESO Beta this weekend. That way, I can criticize the game mercilessly without being told that I can't because I haven't played it. BWAHAHAHAH!

>.>

In any case, I'll post some feedback/impressions, I'm sure.


@BK - yup, new books. A reasonable amount, all told.

[Obdigore]

Silencer, on 06 February 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

So, courtesy of a generous forum member, I'm going to be playing in the ESO Beta this weekend. That way, I can criticize the game mercilessly without being told that I can't because I haven't played it. BWAHAHAHAH!

>.>

In any case, I'll post some feedback/impressions, I'm sure.

I, for one, will patiently wait for your TL:DR post about how it isn't Morrowind so it is a giant shit sandwich.

[Obdigore]

Gothos, on 03 February 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

Well if it's a design feature this big like making factions, at least stick with it. If they were to make a pan-Tamriel faction like, they should've started with this premise. WIthin the frame of this design, it's just an artificial limitation for those who don't pay up.

Also, don't single out Zenimax for this. Bethesda has full control over how this game comes out, Zenimax if anything are more on the developer side who'd never do this. This is the suits doing a business.
Do I have to remind you of the Horse Armor Pack for Oblivion? B isn't blameless here, and their is the final word.

edit: I mean, Zenimax is the guys who refused to change the content to fit "Teen" ESRB rating, and the game stayed as Mature.

The entire story around the game is about Molag Bal who is the daedric prince of rape. It isn't going to be sunshine and kittens.

http://elderscrolls..../wiki/Molag_Bal

Now, I agree that the imperial collectors edition only race is pretty horseshit, but I don't really have a problem with the regular pre-order bonus being able to play any race in any alliance... Its a move to let people play together in the factions they want with the race they want.

Edit -> I've been informed Bronies are totally into rape, so I replaced 'bronies' with 'kittens'.

This post has been edited by Possibly Brent Weeks: 06 February 2014 - 10:51 AM

[Silencer]

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 06 February 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Silencer, on 06 February 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

So, courtesy of a generous forum member, I'm going to be playing in the ESO Beta this weekend. That way, I can criticize the game mercilessly without being told that I can't because I haven't played it. BWAHAHAHAH!

>.>

In any case, I'll post some feedback/impressions, I'm sure.

I, for one, will patiently wait for your TL:DR post about how it isn't Morrowind so it is a giant shit sandwich.

Oh sure, because I totally don't like Skyrim. At all.

[Obdigore]

Silencer, on 06 February 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 06 February 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Silencer, on 06 February 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

So, courtesy of a generous forum member, I'm going to be playing in the ESO Beta this weekend. That way, I can criticize the game mercilessly without being told that I can't because I haven't played it. BWAHAHAHAH!

>.>

In any case, I'll post some feedback/impressions, I'm sure.

I, for one, will patiently wait for your TL:DR post about how it isn't Morrowind so it is a giant shit sandwich.

Oh sure, because I totally don't like Skyrim. At all.

I remember starting your skyrim rant and the first thing was 'they made it too easy with quest markers' and I immediately though 'you know you can turn those off, right?' and then I went into TL:DR mode

[Silencer]

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 06 February 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

Silencer, on 06 February 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 06 February 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Silencer, on 06 February 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

So, courtesy of a generous forum member, I'm going to be playing in the ESO Beta this weekend. That way, I can criticize the game mercilessly without being told that I can't because I haven't played it. BWAHAHAHAH!

>.>

In any case, I'll post some feedback/impressions, I'm sure.

I, for one, will patiently wait for your TL:DR post about how it isn't Morrowind so it is a giant shit sandwich.

Oh sure, because I totally don't like Skyrim. At all.

I remember starting your skyrim rant and the first thing was 'they made it too easy with quest markers' and I immediately though 'you know you can turn those off, right?' and then I went into TL:DR mode

If you had read it, you would know that I addressed that, and pointed out that because they built the game FOR quest markers, the dialogue and journal entries no longer give you sufficient information to figure out where to go. So while you can turn them off (great! options! Though they should be *off* by default, imo - they're an aid, or even a 'cheat', in an open world game like Skyrim), that isn't a viable option in practice.

[Obdigore]

Silencer, on 06 February 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 06 February 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

Silencer, on 06 February 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 06 February 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Silencer, on 06 February 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

So, courtesy of a generous forum member, I'm going to be playing in the ESO Beta this weekend. That way, I can criticize the game mercilessly without being told that I can't because I haven't played it. BWAHAHAHAH!

>.>

In any case, I'll post some feedback/impressions, I'm sure.

I, for one, will patiently wait for your TL:DR post about how it isn't Morrowind so it is a giant shit sandwich.

Oh sure, because I totally don't like Skyrim. At all.

I remember starting your skyrim rant and the first thing was 'they made it too easy with quest markers' and I immediately though 'you know you can turn those off, right?' and then I went into TL:DR mode

If you had read it, you would know that I addressed that, and pointed out that because they built the game FOR quest markers, the dialogue and journal entries no longer give you sufficient information to figure out where to go. So while you can turn them off (great! options! Though they should be *off* by default, imo - they're an aid, or even a 'cheat', in an open world game like Skyrim), that isn't a viable option in practice.

All I hear is 'waaaa it isn't Morrowind!'