[Aptorian]

So, to stop even further derailing and repeated question about the "Missleading" thread and Terez ban, here's a thread for you.

Here's the rundown, unfortunantly only seen from the moderators view. I'm sure Terez see's it in a wholly different way:

Aptorian, on Feb 7 2009, 07:29 PM, said:

Let me start off by remarking that the forum rules sticky is missing in the Inn. So people may have forgotten the rules.

Let me sum up her offenses.

First she disregarded a moderator warning, and over the course of the next couple of pages she made a hassle. Not really a major offense.

Then she was warned and she started arguing. And she continued to argue. This is enough to get you a days ban if a mod finds is prudent. Why? Because the forum has a no-tolerance policy when it comes to moderator rulings. Don't continue to bitch about something when the moderator has acted. Why? Because the mods say so (It's a pretty little nazi rule isn't it? )

Then Hetan bumped up her warning level and suspended her. She didn't ban Terez IP or we wouldn't actually had heard more from her. Terez didn't get the hint and made an alt. That's a suspension turned into a ban. 3 days I think IH said. Why? First off, Alts are no longer allowed because we had too much trolling. Second, she'd just had her account suspended and she comes online again to bitch some more? No. 10 noes. Zero Tollerance.

Then she made a second alt, Camilla, just to spite the mods. Now, I don't have any power in the Inn and I don't know how Rodeo or Cougar was going to act, but it was IH and Anomander she was pissing on there. The Elder Ones. The ones that already frown upon the direction the Inn has taken. You guess what was going to happen.

Terez is gone and will be for a good long while.

Silly woman.

Anomander, on Feb 7 2009, 07:32 PM, said:

Ok, this topic is getting absolutely freakin' ridiculous.

Terez refused to abide by warnings, thus she was suspended. Making accounts to then bitch about said suspension is a huge nono, and yet you're surprised she was perma banned?

Frook, she only 'stopped' because that new account was suspended, and her third account deleted. I'm assuming she just gave up after that. If she had of contacted somebody on the staff and discussed the situation like a rational adult then all this wouldn't have occured. But no, she behaved like a spoiled child and whined about 'unfairness' and how we were targetting her for past offenses. Guess what, if you repeatly irk the staff and other members then don't be surprised if one day we get fed up and finally ban you.

In the past this would have never come up, because the sort of content you all enjoy discussing wasn't allowed. We're a site promoted by the author and his publisher, talking about 'cervical stimulation' and the like will not be allowed. Honestly, are people that dense?

This is the last that needs to be said, and should you have any concerns PM a member of the staff. I'll leave the topic open for now because there was an actual point to it once, but if you continue to try and 'debate' this with the mods and admins I'll be deleting those posts and locking the thread for good.

Basically Terez felt she was being delt with unfairly, some of her complaint may have been true, but then she threw a big butthurt and made a mess of things.

Discuss to your hearts content.

[Bent]

So after the recent events I feel it might be a good idea to discuss self moderation. I, personally, understand the mods decision to ban Terez. Apt and Ano explained thier actions very clearly. However, in the now pinned Code of Conduct thread, it clearly says not to derail a thread. I guess I just want some clarification, is spamming a thread and getting others to respond in turn to your spam, de-railing? If so, I am personally responsible for derailing at least half of te threads in the Inn, due to being able to eat 100 of them, etc. I feel that this rule is quite lax in the Inn and I actually appreciate the fact that Rodeo and Abyss and Cougar are not too strict in here. So here is a place to discuss how far is too far. And just to let everyone know, I don't care if this thread gets de-railed, as long as the mods don't. lol.

This post has been edited by Bent: 07 February 2009 - 07:19 PM

[Grief]

I think banning her was the right course.
She showed she couldn't take responsibilty or admit she was wrong, rather arguing with the mods that they were picking on her, and continuing heedless of warnings.

[Aptorian]

Arghk, we've managed to make similar threads.

Perhaps a mod can merge our two topics.

[Stalker]

I bet I could eat 100 derailed threads...

I'm sorry, but for real I was under the general impression that derailing is absolutely awful in the book forums, while it isn't minded so much in the Inn, unless it gets way out of hand, which it seems happened.

[Bent]

Sorry Apt, but mine's better, lol.

[Grief]

De-railing is bad in book forums.
Not really bad in the inn. I mean, its just a random discussion area.
Unless, well, it is ok to have a couple of jokes on certain subjects, but if a whole thread gets de-railed into a long detailed discussion, its not.

[HoosierDaddy]

Just a couple clarifications, please.

1. Cursing: I've seen that some Mod's have different feelings about this, but have let it slide. Now, is it being let slid or is it okay and some Mod's just frown upon it? Those are two very different things. The Code doesn't really mention this.

2. Sex conversation: This is where Terez was always walking the line... what is, and isn't appropriate for this forum? While a full embargo is probably easiest to police, it also runs into a slippery situation with the HAWT thread & sometimes Sweet Internet thread. Any ideas?

As for Terez, I'll just say this. I like her, and she pushed my buttons a ton, purposefully. And, while I think she may have had an argument about being treated differently, she threw away that argument by publicly airing disagreements with Mods, Admins, and by resigning in... which every forum I've ever visited cracks down on during a temp ban or suspension.

[Grief]

Well, it depends what you're cursing.
Cursing cause something bad has happened to you, no problem, imo.
Its when its swearing, seriously, at other people, that I find less acceptable.
Also, I don't really think its necessary for swearing in thread titles.

[Bent]

HoosierDaddy, on Feb 7 2009, 02:25 PM, said:

which every forum I've ever visited cracks down on during a temp ban or suspension.

YOU WHAT!!!!?????


On topic. Personally, as said above, I think it was justified, but my point goes along with Hossier, how bad is too bad? I mean at one point there was a thread called which way do you hang, and I thought to myself, wow thats gonna get locked, but it lasted for days.

[HoosierDaddy]

I used to visit a WoT forum all the time back in the day, Batdog.

@Grief: As for cursing, flaming people with it I know is outright prohibited. However, I and I know others as well, often us f-ing as an adjective or adverb.

Quote

I.e.: This is the most ridiculous f-ing thing I've ever seen!

I'm talking about this more common usage of the term in every day parlance, not thread-titles or personal attacks.

[frookenhauer]

I think the thread has been policed very very very very very very very.....very well while I've been here. Rodeo is a god and I'm a fan of Apts Aptness. I really do hope there are no changes as to how things are done her, cos the Inn is a good place to be and generally quite fun.

Children younger than 16 do come on here, we've got our spambot AIJ for confirmation, but what kids talk about in the playground will make you cry, we are domesticated to a high degree by comparison. I say the less talk the better cos then someones going to get out the rulebook and get all "I am the Law!" on our asses and is that what we really want from the Inn.

I am an unashamed noob as has been pointed out to me quite pointedly recently, but who the hell gives a damn? Terez is banned. it is her fault. Lets just get on with it and hope its not for too long, if it is we can all start a petition or something

[Anomander]

Regarding cursing, it's allowed on the sites in passing, but not permitted when directed at a specific member.

I'll admit what is/isn't allowable is a grey area at times, and I think this is owing to the personal tastes of the mod/admin that comes across the discussion.

@Frook, as far as I'm concerned Terez is perma-banned and can find another site to frequent.

[Yellow]

Yeah, I've definitely seen worse things discussed on this forum. I actually can't believe that the women who visit this site allow something like the HAWT thread to exist. But that's cool, cos I like it!

Grief, on Feb 7 2009, 07:20 PM, said:

I think banning her was the right course.
She showed she couldn't take responsibilty or admit she was wrong, rather arguing with the mods that they were picking on her, and continuing heedless of warnings.

Grief, no offence, but I'm not surprised a mod is siding with the mods on this one.

edit - I love all the rainbow names at the bottom of the page. Popular thread is popular!

This post has been edited by Yellow: 07 February 2009 - 07:37 PM

[Bent]

Off topic, the members viewing below looks like a rainbow.

On topic, I suppose the mods will warn us first if there is something questionable in our posts and we will correct ourselves accordingly, I blame brood for all of this.

[HoosierDaddy]

Anomander, on Feb 7 2009, 02:35 PM, said:

Regarding cursing, it's allowed on the sites in passing, but not permitted when directed at a specific member.

I'll admit what is/isn't allowable is a grey area at times, and I think this is owing to the personal tastes of the mod/admin that comes across the discussion.

I think this is where a lot of the problem, lies. I have no idea how to solve it, of course. But it does create the definite possibilities of double standards, which I think Terez was a victim of on occasion. The HAWT thread is just as bad as some of the things she would talk about, as well as Inn "discussions".

Evidently, Terez was given multiple warnings before punishment came down though, which lessens its significance to the event in question. However, the precedence of personal taste as deciding factor, when there is such a gulf between leniency and strictness can be problematic.

[Aptorian]

Actually that "which way do you hang" thread, was an odd one. First brynjar made one and it was instantly removed by... Jennifer I think... and then, months later probably, I believe Trouble reposted the topic and Jennifer was gone so it was left open for a while by Rodeo, that hippie.

But that thread is a good example of what shouldn't be posted in the Inn. It's one of the reasons why I don't moderate the Inn because I personally don't mind those threads and would feel like a hypochrite deleting them, but they are against the forum policy. So they should be deleted.

Generally, about the rules. The rules are there for a reason and they are made very specific and the consequences of them being broken are suitably harsh as a deterrent for testing them. That said, all the rules can be bent, generally I think we all post stuff that is either on the edge or breaks the rules once in a while. It's when we start to constantly test the boundaries and obviously disregard rules we know very well we shouldn't be breaking that the moderators need to step in.

I think Mezla brought up me and Illy as examples of people who made several edgy if not just downright offensive posts more than once, and gotten away with it without getting the same heat as Terez. And this is true and it isn't fair. The fact that we're old members doesn't really excuse it and I know I've been a bad boy. The difference, I feel, is that Terez just doesn't have a filter and she doesn't know when to stop. She constantly got brought up as a topic in the Secret Moderator Orbital Space Station forum, as being a nuissance. Mainly in the DB and later in the Inn. When I've been warned by the admins and mods, and don't think I haven't been, I immediatly retract what ever I post and I appoligise... not (just) because I'm a kiss-ass... but because I know the rules, and I know when I've taken it too far. That is the main difference.

[Bent]

HoosierDaddy, on Feb 7 2009, 02:41 PM, said:

when there is such a gulf between leniency and strictness can be problematic.

Sigh, its what you get when talking to a known socialist, lol. Hoosier, the onl thing to make it uniform is to ban all cursing and suggestive pics. And I personally feel that is in violation of my 42nd amendment, whatever that means. I for one think that the self moderation had been tolerable, and if we get a warning we personally need to adjust, not the other way around.

[Anomander]

First and foremost, if you read the 'Code of Conduct' you'll see that she would automatically have been banned for creating another account. Secondly, she wasn't as loved as some may think, a lot of people were pissed off by her. There was no double standard in Terez's case, she fucked up and was suitably dealt with.

[frookenhauer]

Anomander, on Feb 7 2009, 07:35 PM, said:

@Frook, as far as I'm concerned Terez is perma-banned and can find another site to frequent.

That's a real shame, cos it got out of hand so quickly...Would a petition help? The reason I say this is that maybe a lesson can be learnt and she might be a better person for being banned for a time. Know your limits and all that. It seems so...unfair. Do you know what i mean. Not for this incident or even an accumulation. People should be banned for being complete and utter arseholes, not a wee bit stupid.