[Jorram]

To be honest, my first thought was that this island happened in another dimension, because the CG are referred to as demons. The Jaghut reference stroke me as similar to the idea that Jaghut somehow brought the Stormriders into Wu (NOK) - maybe they messed with a lot of worlds. Since the Primogenetrix' people are never described physically or I can't remember, I thought they were really some other world/warren which the CG somehow got trapped into.

I can see how my vision is quite far-fetched but it was just what i thought atm

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I thought the CG being called Blood Demons was just a name, like Mezla.

I say someone trawls through that passage with the Primo and looks for a tiny droplet of extra info.

[Obdigore]

I just read it again. (Reread all the books)

The Prima is at least a Jhag - she is taller, has the 'vitallity of her bloodline' and is afraid of the word 'jaghut'.

[Aptorian]

Well, anyone with a little knowledge and common sense would be afraid of a Jaghut... she might aswell be half Assail, or TTT or marsian.

[Obdigore]

 Aptorian, on Feb 27 2009, 04:07 PM, said:

Well, anyone with a little knowledge and common sense would be afraid of a Jaghut... she might aswell be half Assail, or TTT or marsian.

Page 110 - 'Big Hardcover English' version. Sue me.

'Looking down at her, the demon woman spoke something in her tongue beore disappearing. Timmel recognized none of her words save on that shocked her utterly, Jaghut. (Yes, that Italics is in the book).
'Her bodyguard arrived, glaring, weapons bared. Timmel struggled to her feet. The superior strength and resilience of her line that also brought her potent talents saw her through the shock and pain of her wound.
T'enet, she glimpsed over the heads of the shorter of her bodyguards, was not so lucky. He lay sprawled face down...'

Page 111 - Same version.
'That word, that forbidden word. (yes italics in the book again) So, all has not been forgotten out there in the wider world. Ancient truths remain alive somewhere. One place too many for her and her kind.'

So,
1) The Crimson Guardess said 'Jaghut.' Why would she, unless she is introducing her self or saying something nasty and, not knowing the persons name, using her race as a noun?
2) She has 'superior strength and resilience ... potent talents' from her 'line'.
3) She could see fully over the heads of her shorter bodyguards at someone who is less than a couple feet away, as they were talking. Taller than the average being, human or otherwise.
4) Jaghut is the only other thing italicized, and obviously the forbidden word. The Primogenatrix is either a Jaghut, or descended from one, or the other culture to be involved beyond repair with the Jaghuts, the Imass. She is taller and stronger and has more resilience than what we must assume are humans. Humans are the offspring of the Imass - in addition, the Imass have not, nor have they ever, been on the verge of extinction due to the Jaghuts.

Now tell me Apt,

Do you give up and agree that the Primogenatrix has Jaghut blood in her veins, or do you have some sort of 'her eyes changed colors' theory to discount the above evidence?

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 27 February 2009 - 10:27 PM

[Aptorian]

I'm gonna sleep on it, I will come back with an explanation tomorrow. Right now I think she is Grizzin Farl

[Sinisdar Toste]

where then is her bounteous supplies of toast apt? answer me that!

[L'oric]

How about them being descendants of Jhaguts? Much like Lether came from the First Empire? Some mixing of blood but not enough and the leader is more Jhagut than the rest, Much like Twilight from Lether as well.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

 Obdigore, on Feb 28 2009, 09:04 AM, said:

I just read it again. (Reread all the books)

The Prima is at least a Jhag - she is taller, has the 'vitallity of her bloodline' and is afraid of the word 'jaghut'.

She could be one from Bael-they were afraid of the Jaghut as well. Kyle's thoughts said so.

[Sinisdar Toste]

too bad she lived on an island

[HoosierDaddy]

 Obdigore, on Feb 27 2009, 05:25 PM, said:

 Aptorian, on Feb 27 2009, 04:07 PM, said:

Well, anyone with a little knowledge and common sense would be afraid of a Jaghut... she might aswell be half Assail, or TTT or marsian.

Page 110 - 'Big Hardcover English' version. Sue me.

'Looking down at her, the demon woman spoke something in her tongue beore disappearing. Timmel recognized none of her words save on that shocked her utterly, Jaghut. (Yes, that Italics is in the book).
'Her bodyguard arrived, glaring, weapons bared. Timmel struggled to her feet. The superior strength and resilience of her line that also brought her potent talents saw her through the shock and pain of her wound.
T'enet, she glimpsed over the heads of the shorter of her bodyguards, was not so lucky. He lay sprawled face down...'

Page 111 - Same version.
'That word, that forbidden word. (yes italics in the book again) So, all has not been forgotten out there in the wider world. Ancient truths remain alive somewhere. One place too many for her and her kind.'

So,
1) The Crimson Guardess said 'Jaghut.' Why would she, unless she is introducing her self or saying something nasty and, not knowing the persons name, using her race as a noun?
2) She has 'superior strength and resilience ... potent talents' from her 'line'.
3) She could see fully over the heads of her shorter bodyguards at someone who is less than a couple feet away, as they were talking. Taller than the average being, human or otherwise.
4) Jaghut is the only other thing italicized, and obviously the forbidden word. The Primogenatrix is either a Jaghut, or descended from one, or the other culture to be involved beyond repair with the Jaghuts, the Imass. She is taller and stronger and has more resilience than what we must assume are humans. Humans are the offspring of the Imass - in addition, the Imass have not, nor have they ever, been on the verge of extinction due to the Jaghuts.

Now tell me Apt,

Do you give up and agree that the Primogenatrix has Jaghut blood in her veins, or do you have some sort of 'her eyes changed colors' theory to discount the above evidence?

 L'oric, on Feb 27 2009, 08:15 PM, said:

How about them being descendants of Jhaguts? Much like Lether came from the First Empire? Some mixing of blood but not enough and the leader is more Jhagut than the rest, Much like Twilight from Lether as well.

I enjoy and support the synthesis of these two posts. Why would the word "Jaghut" be forbidden? Amongst scholarly folk, and mages such as the Primogenatrix are nearly always scholarly folk, the knowledge of Jaghut is fairly typical. The only reason for the word to be "prohibited" is to keep knowledge insulated.

Why would an army do so much to IMPRISON soldiers rather than allow them to escape or surrender as the armies of the Primogenatrix did? The only rational reason for the permanent imprisonment is to keep all knowledge of the goings on in this island ignorant to the outside world.

What group fears discovery more than any other? Who hide wherever they can? Jaghut. It would make sense that a descendant race would follow the same cultural norms that their "forefathers" made into being in fear of Imass or T'lan Imass armies.

[beru]

 Ain't_It_Just_, on Feb 28 2009, 06:39 AM, said:

 Obdigore, on Feb 28 2009, 09:04 AM, said:

I just read it again. (Reread all the books)

The Prima is at least a Jhag - she is taller, has the 'vitallity of her bloodline' and is afraid of the word 'jaghut'.

She could be one from Bael-they were afraid of the Jaghut as well. Kyle's thoughts said so.

i thinke kyle was afraid of KCCM

This post has been edited by beru: 03 March 2009 - 07:04 AM

[Monoch Ochem]

Someone on another thread referred to 'The Shoals'....is this the name of this cave/island? We know the Primogentrix's dominion is called Umryg- any idea where that is?

The assassin who nearly kills the Primo attacks from Shadow- Meanas or Emurlahnn? Am I correct in this sequence of events:

The Guardsmen broke out but left the assassin behind, somehow using 'Shadow' to aid the efforts of the shield-turtle from the mouth of the cave (it broached a moat of burning oil).
Then from the cave, she launched an attack through Shadow at the Primo, killing T'enet, and later assassinated Fanell. I'm guessing the Shadow influence was the assassin, because when Regar tells the Primo about Fanell, the Primo immediately quested for any further influence of Shadow. By this time however, the assassin must have joined her fellow Guardsmen in the turtle?

This post has been edited by Monoch Ochem: 08 April 2009 - 12:34 PM