[Andirak]

This is not a R/D is better than D/R.

I am having a discussion on another forum, and here is that other person's interpretation:

That Rake initially wanted to send Dassem (Dessembrae) inside Dragnipur to fight chaos, until Brood arrived to take care of the sword. The poster doesn't mention how Rake would get inside there, but suggest that maybe Rake would kill himself or maybe Brood could do it. The rationale being, Rake wouldn't fight Dassem unless he wanted to kill him. So, into the fight, Rake realized he was outclassed, and decided to salvage something, and got himself killed by his own sword. Basically, plan A was to kill Dassem, failing that, switch to plan B, Rake himself going.

My interpretation:

Plan A: Rake himself getting inside there, he didn't need/want to kill Dassem. Hood was already there to delay chaos, there was no need to send another god (Dassem) there.
Plan B: None.

Did I miss something? It would be like the millionth time, but hey, odds gotta turn someday.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 20 January 2009 - 09:49 PM

[Called-by-the-Voices]

Oh no, here we go again

Actually the theory doesn't sound that bad to me.. But actually I'm with Apt on this one. Erikson promised us the Das-Rake showdown, and he just couldn't make it reasonable. So it isn't.. I can see absolutely no reason why would Rake want to fight Das, and vice versa...

[777th Segulah]

I agree with your interpretation, he would not have wanted to send Dassem into Dragnipur. Rake also had to be there in order to reunite the Andii with Mother Dark.

[Illuyankas]

Rake needed to be inside to make the whole thing work - plus, he's not enough of a dick to throw Dassem in just to save time. Besides, Dassem would have been distracted by the fact, you know, Hood's right there and all.

[L'oric]

My problem with the duel was always what was Dassem going to do to get to Hood if he had beaten Rake? Why fight? It's clear to me that they did not have to. Does Rake start and Dassem defends himself and we just do not see it in that perspective? Dassem gets no closer to getting to Hood by defeating Rake IMO. Of course maybe once in control of the sword he would then...control hood and the souls within? Let Hood die fighting chaos? His revenge would seem to be only satisfied with a one on one confrontation.

Now from Rake's point of view.

Rake needs to fight off Chaos and bring back mother dark and make sure the gate to darkness is safe forever more. I do not think he wants to kill Dassem to make sure that happens. I think he knows he has to go into the sword.

Maybe he needs all these things to bring back MD.
1-Duel with another master of unstoppable will.
2.Sacrifice of his body by his own sword.
3.Convergence of every power on the continent it seems.
4.Lord of Death and his armies to hold off chaos..
5.A second sacrifice of his soul as final proof to MD that she is needed.

What the hell is it going to take to get Father Light back?

L'oric

[Andirak]

Called-by-the-Voices, on Jan 20 2009, 01:16 PM, said:

Oh no, here we go again

Actually the theory doesn't sound that bad to me.. But actually I'm with Apt on this one. Erikson promised us the Das-Rake showdown, and he just couldn't make it reasonable. So it isn't.. I can see absolutely no reason why would Rake want to fight Das, and vice versa...

The theory could work... if there is any usefulness to Dassem being inside there. How long would he last? Would it alter anything to the overall scheme? Hood and his army were being chopped into pieces, so I fail to see what someone else (even a god) would accomplish. Especially since we know no single force can repulse chaos.

[Called-by-the-Voices]

Andirak, on Jan 20 2009, 07:26 PM, said:

Called-by-the-Voices, on Jan 20 2009, 01:16 PM, said:

Oh no, here we go again

Actually the theory doesn't sound that bad to me.. But actually I'm with Apt on this one. Erikson promised us the Das-Rake showdown, and he just couldn't make it reasonable. So it isn't.. I can see absolutely no reason why would Rake want to fight Das, and vice versa...

The theory could work... if there is any usefulness to Dassem being inside there. How long would he last? Would it alter anything to the overall scheme? Hood and his army were being chopped into pieces, so I fail to see what someone else (even a god) would accomplish. Especially since we know no single force can repulse chaos.

Exactly. The only way I could make sense of it is that Rake was "protecting" Hood from Dassem. And even that was a stretch since Hood was already inside Drag. And we know Dassem doesn't know where he is (hence "Where is Hood?")

So, Rake could've just said:
"Hi, Dass, what's up? You're here shopping?"
Das: "No, I'm on my eternal quest to kill Hood, the motherfucker who killed my daughter. My daughter is deeeeaaad" *Cry*
Rake: "Well, if I see him, I'll sure let you know..See ya"

Why the fight?

[HoosierDaddy]

Andirak, on Jan 20 2009, 01:07 PM, said:

This is not a R/D is better than D/R.

I am having a discussion on another forum, and here is that other person's interpretation:

That Rake initially wanted to send Dassem (Dessembrae) inside Dragnipur to fight chaos, until Brood arrived to take care of the sword. The poster doesn't mention how Rake would get inside there, but suggest that maybe Rake would kill himself or maybe Brood could do it. The rationale being, Rake wouldn't fight Dassem unless he wanted to kill him. So, into the fight, Rake realized he was outclassed, and decided to salvage something, and got himself killed by his own sword. Basically, plan A was to kill Dassem, failing that, switch to plan B, Rake himself going.

My interpretation:

Plan A: Rake himself getting inside there, he didn't need/want to kill Dassem. Hood was already there to delay chaos, there was no need to send another god (Dassem) there.
Plan B: None.

Did I miss something? It would be like the millionth time, but hey, odds gotta turn someday.

That person is incorrect. The whole point of the convergence is to get first Hood and then Rake into Dragnipur so that they could hold off Chaos long enough to move the gate into Kurald Galain. If Hood and his armies weren't enough to stop Chaos, what was Dessembrae going to do?

[The Drum]

I'm not getting involved with tis one but isn't the thread title a bit of a spoiler if someone hasn't read TtH?

[Aptorian]

I looked at the tittle and couldn't decide what to do. It isn't really a spoiler, just a revelation that both Dassem and Rake appear in the book, which will become obvious when you read the dramatis personae.

[Andirak]

The Drum, on Jan 20 2009, 03:39 PM, said:

I'm not getting involved with tis one but isn't the thread title a bit of a spoiler if someone hasn't read TtH?

Yes you can. If we leave the Dassem vs. Rake bit out and just discuss whether Dass would be useful inside Drag and whether Rake had any intention of killing him in the first place.
Can a Mod change the title?
Edit: The title: Ok then.

This post has been edited by Andirak: 20 January 2009 - 09:37 PM

[Aptorian]

Editted. If you don't like the change, you can change the tittle yourself. Just use the full editor

[Andirak]

It's perfect. Thanks.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Is it known if Hood was collaborating with Rake? Did he mean to get killed. Gods what a stupid question...

Someone answer my stupid question.

[HoosierDaddy]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Jan 21 2009, 02:11 AM, said:

Is it known if Hood was collaborating with Rake? Did he mean to get killed. Gods what a stupid question...

Someone answer my stupid question.

Is he dead? We don't know. Did he agree to go into Dragnipur? Yes, a la the planning since TBH to find passage for Hood's armies into Dragnipur along with Hood, and his momentary (well, until Rake silenced it at least) second guessing.

[Benji]

I think it was all discussed at the start of the book, in the prologue with the two dog walkers. Shadowthrone met with Hood and (supposedly) Rake to discuss the convergence.

[limping dog]

Benji, on Jan 21 2009, 05:09 AM, said:

I think it was all discussed at the start of the book, in the prologue with the two dog walkers. Shadowthrone met with Hood and (supposedly) Rake to discuss the convergence.

Think you mean ST, Hood and Edgewalker...not Rake.

[Seguleh 1st]

he means that rake could have been in the carriage that arrived. that is a hot speculation. edgy wasnt there to discuss anything.

[Onos]

I really thought that Shadowthrones role in the whole event was to get Dassem to where he was needed at the right time.

Hood gets out of being the god of death and stalls chaos.
Rake gives up his life to free the gate
Shadowthrone gets Dassem to the correct spot to fight Rake and have Rake die on his own sword. (maybe Shadowthrone does more as well that we dont see) Also not sure what ST gets for himself. To me the other important question is was Dassem totally oblivious or was he doing what ST told him to do.

This post has been edited by Onos: 22 January 2009 - 11:16 PM

[D'rek]

Onos, on Jan 22 2009, 06:16 PM, said:

I really thought that Shadowthrones role in the whole event was to get Dassem to where he was needed at the right time.

Hood gets out of being the god of death and stalls chaos.
Rake gives up his life to free the gate
Shadowthrone gets Dassem to the correct spot to fight Rake and have Rake die on his own sword. (maybe Shadowthrone does more as well that we dont see) Also not sure what ST gets for himself. To me the other important question is was Dassem totally oblivious or was he doing what ST told him to do.

ST also sent the Hounds to defend Rake's corpse...