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strategy games for us that like games where 1000ands die

#121 User is offline   Tapper 

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 10:36 PM

well, playing as France now, after having had a stab at Russia.
It really helps to tear down a metalworks or weaver and put up a second school.

That being said, there's not enough variation in land units - there's no unit that I absolutely WANT to get. The little differences between nations are nice touches though that do provide a different playstyle and tactics, and the small nations really pose a challenge. Baden-Wurttemberg and Westphalia ganged up on me with a full stack each not even 15 turns into the game... If only the AI could keep up in research :)

On sea in the campaign it's the exact opposite. Scaling up from a 6th to a 4th rate will instantly make you king of the sea if you're the first to do it - and there's extensive research required so you're probably the first to do it and free up the resources.

Then, the same happens when going from 4th to 2nd and then to 1st rate, and if you can outbuild the others by continuiing to keep 1 or 2 ships in the queue, you will outsize them and therefore outgun them easily.

All in all, I eagerly outwait the mods.
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#122 User is offline   beru 

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 12:41 PM

what i realy looked forward to was the stratgy of the time |vs| (meaning you stand at a line and shoot at the enmy line and hope you hit more...) sea battles waged in the same way, i cant wait to get my PC upgraded so i can out think it with eavil plots of epic proporsions :sofa:
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#123 User is offline   Impirion 

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 02:05 PM

I quite like the fact that terrain makes such a huge difference now. In previous games, barring the mountains where sometimes it affected the battle, terrrain didn't really play much of a role. Now, especially in defensive battles, you can get such an advantage from setting up in the right place.

In addition, it does seem that offensive battles are a lot harder now, even with great heavy cavalry to break units when they are wavering. I guess that could just be me not having got a hang of how to attack yet though.

Oh and canister shot in enemy's faces is awesome...300 kills in a battle for one unit of cannon :sofa:
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#124 User is offline   beru 

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 08:03 AM

in medival i got 500kils with balistas 200 with ribvalts and 500 with aa unit of mercenry pikemen (in one battle) where i killed the timurids good :D
and yes no you can "TACE COVER", at last
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#125 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 08:29 AM

View PostImpirion, on Mar 11 2009, 02:05 PM, said:

I quite like the fact that terrain makes such a huge difference now. In previous games, barring the mountains where sometimes it affected the battle, terrrain didn't really play much of a role. Now, especially in defensive battles, you can get such an advantage from setting up in the right place.

In addition, it does seem that offensive battles are a lot harder now, even with great heavy cavalry to break units when they are wavering. I guess that could just be me not having got a hang of how to attack yet though.

Oh and canister shot in enemy's faces is awesome...300 kills in a battle for one unit of cannon :D


I haven't got the canister yet - the technology seems very slow to develop at the moment. I've only got one 'gentleman' agent, and early on I only have the one school, so it seems to take ages to get new tech. And since he's in the school, I can't send him out to steal it off someone else. Also, I've been developing the economic stuff first so I can afford to pay for my army and navy.

I've mainly played defensively too; but if it's accurate then marching in columns towards the enemy should reduce the damage until they are close enough to fight.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 12 March 2009 - 08:29 AM

So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#126 User is offline   Tapper 

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 08:59 AM

Technology research will get better, much better, but the key to it is tearing down a building in your capitol's province and building a second school there (1 extra gentleman), and Observatories in every other 'big' city (where you can build more than just Governor's Barracks/ Palace) for more gentlemen yet again.

I've started with researching Empiricism everywhere first - it means a better building (faster research), gentleman limit increased by 1 through it (again, faster research), often a bonus research point for the gentleman through a trait and access to the next layer of social tech.

basically, schools create gentlemen, gentlemen increase research, and multiple schools allow multiple techs researched at the same time, so win-win. With my game as France, I have 3 schools with 2 gentlemen each and 1 conquered with 1 gentleman in it, and that's before 1912. The bastards now start spawning in Quebec, making it a pain to get them to my schools in France proper... I've started a ferry service of brigs.

Make sure to build the special type of Museum in your capitol though (except as Prussia, they gain a very cool academy) as these musea grant +5 happiness for all classes... you need it to compensate for the clamour of reform.

However, there are strange discrepancies. Naval Factories or whatever the lvl 1 tech in naval that allows a better military port takes me only 5 or 7 turns as France, and 11 with Isaac * more stars than you can count * Newton when viewed turn 1.

As for columns: I fear that the sole advantage is that your front is less wide, thus the majority of casualties will be there, and several bullets may hit the same guy instead of enemies all targeting a different guy - afaik, there's no other advantage.
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#127 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 09:26 AM

Cheers for the info. I'll add that the discrepancies might be due to the speciality of the gentleman. As they gain experience and 'assistants,' they tend to get bonuses for researching either the military/economic/philosophy techs. If you assign them to their speciality, they research it quicker; apparently it helps to have at least 3 schools, each researching one type of tech.

I've seen the tear-down-a-building advice, but are you sure that isn't going to have an impact later in the game? I only have a choice of church/weavers/ironworks to destroy and replace, and I think I'm going to need them all at some point. the church school does look a bit superfluous, but it significantly raises happiness in later levels, which might be really useful a few years down the line.
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#128 User is offline   Tapper 

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 10:15 AM

View PostTraveller, on Mar 12 2009, 10:26 AM, said:

Cheers for the info. I'll add that the discrepancies might be due to the speciality of the gentleman. As they gain experience and 'assistants,' they tend to get bonuses for researching either the military/economic/philosophy techs. If you assign them to their speciality, they research it quicker; apparently it helps to have at least 3 schools, each researching one type of tech.

I've seen the tear-down-a-building advice, but are you sure that isn't going to have an impact later in the game? I only have a choice of church/weavers/ironworks to destroy and replace, and I think I'm going to need them all at some point. the church school does look a bit superfluous, but it significantly raises happiness in later levels, which might be really useful a few years down the line.

Hmm, the French guy is an industrial specialist, Newton something else - neither is the Bath-tub Admiral or Armchair General that gives a +1 bonus to military research (followed by Military Writer) iirc.

as for tear-it-down, build it up:

I usually demolish either a weaver or an ironworks, and keep the church to improve lower class happiness to a manageable level so that I can send armies around instead of having them police - commoners hate schools and a single school is a -4 happiness hit. For the same reason, I keep the pleasure palace around... +5 happiness rocks.
That leaves the industry buildings.

They do add pretty good money to the province and later on reduce upkeep & recruit costs, but they're relatively fast to (re)build (2 and 3 turns for the basic and first upgrade) and most provinces you'll conquer have 1 of the 2, so do several colonies. The industrial techs are further more only dedicated to either weavers or ironworks, so to make a healthy profit from both, you need to do a lot of research, which means time.

I personally prefer to level up my military tech to ring bayonet, carbines and square formation first to unlock more units and stand a chance against cavalry, so that postpones the need for leveling up the industrial buildings as well...
And the two early farm techs can usually be bought from Prussia, Russia or Austria - or trade it for plug bayonet, which is a tech you're going to replace immediately with ring bayonet anyway, so no harm done.

Imho, in the early game, the farming tree is also a much better bet than research for industrial buildings because it does not only modestly increase income but also pop growth, leading to additional towns a bit faster (although +0.5% pop growth is a huge bonus!) and thus, more buildings again... and with those, I can replace that weaver/ ironworks that I tore down for a school, just in time for the research I want to do on it after securing the first priority researches in the military and social department I wanted to have done.

Of course, your mileage may vary, and I did not do a whole lot of calculating on what gives more profit long term.
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#129 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:40 AM

I might get rid of my weaver/iron works then. The weaver tech tree doesn'r really seem to have a huge amount of benefits, for a LOT of research. I researched the plug bayonet and square formation in the same amount of time as it took my first significant force to reach Georgia.

Empiricism and that other one (with the wheatsheaf) are essential early; the one I can't remember the name of gives a bonus to all production, and allows bigger plantations to be built.

Still having funding problems though - although now I have a lot of trade ships sending back ivory, I'm hoping it will pick up. I'm playing the British campaign, and what with trying to get enough forces into America, build up my fleet, and increase production everywhere, i haven't got anything to send to India yet.
So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#130 User is offline   beru 

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 02:01 PM

from my friend:
the first targets in america sould be teh indians (wich just sounds strange in this context but never mind) if they have the time they will gang up un you and fight with unortodox tactics that your troops are not able to conter wery well, this includes:
ambushes and melee combat
archers with grater range than your gunmen
tonns of soldiers to make evry bullet count

This post has been edited by beru: 17 March 2009 - 10:51 AM

i want to see this world where T'lan imass kneels
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#131 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 02:09 PM

I've already landed a huge army, taken Georgia and Florida, and am on the way over to get the Cherokee territories, as part of the 1st mission. I'll worry about New France last; I'm being nice to them at the moment so when I take Quebec I can sue for peace and they won't be too pissed at me.

Once the mission is complete, I'm (hoping) I gain control of the other regions along the west coast.
So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#132 User is offline   beru 

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 11:11 PM

im playing rome total war on my laptop and a some rebels popped up.. named Lesbian rebels.. ah the lolz
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#133 User is offline   Impirion 

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 06:12 PM

I have been playing the campaign as the british.

Beru's right, the Indians are rather awesome... took me 2 full armies to break through the cherokee and only then because I grabbed their last city before their other fully stacked armies arrived back to defend it....

I gave up on the iroquois but have reduced France to just Lower Louisiana. Took me about 30 turns, just focusing on that to get america and the 13 colonies. Once you get them, your income picks up quite a bit.

During the taking of america, I managed to wrangle Ceylon in an exchange with the French for Huron Territory (which I promptly took back :p) and that gave me the base to start an assault on the Marathas, who completely owned the Mughals..

I landed 4 full armies in India and am currently hopping my way to the whole of India. My income is now an almighty 95000 a turn giving me like +50000 every turn. Really tempted now to build up my forces in Europe and unleash war on the Continent and see how far I get since I am currently still only in 1755 or something.

Just gotta figure out how to get Gibraltar, Malta and Egypt and I can haz win...

Imp
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#134 User is offline   beru 

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:05 PM

i went to a friend of mine (wich can play the game, im the only one of my friends that cant...) he aslo plays british, he have one veteran army and just got a fresh one from erurope... he controls north canada and florida after getting suprised by hords of indians he never saw coming...

on a nother note; how to stage revelutions?
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#135 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:46 PM

View PostImpirion, on Mar 16 2009, 06:12 PM, said:

I have been playing the campaign as the british.

Beru's right, the Indians are rather awesome... took me 2 full armies to break through the cherokee and only then because I grabbed their last city before their other fully stacked armies arrived back to defend it....

I gave up on the iroquois but have reduced France to just Lower Louisiana. Took me about 30 turns, just focusing on that to get america and the 13 colonies. Once you get them, your income picks up quite a bit.

During the taking of america, I managed to wrangle Ceylon in an exchange with the French for Huron Territory (which I promptly took back :p) and that gave me the base to start an assault on the Marathas, who completely owned the Mughals..

I landed 4 full armies in India and am currently hopping my way to the whole of India. My income is now an almighty 95000 a turn giving me like +50000 every turn. Really tempted now to build up my forces in Europe and unleash war on the Continent and see how far I get since I am currently still only in 1755 or something.

Just gotta figure out how to get Gibraltar, Malta and Egypt and I can haz win...

Imp


Sound like I'm following in your footsteps...

I'm only at 1708; I took out the Cherokees with a big army, which is now marching north through 13 colonies territory to take New France.

Then I guess I'll head to India.

I think you have to increase the education levels of the people to stage revolutions, not sure.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 16 March 2009 - 08:47 PM

So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#136 User is offline   beru 

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:57 PM

well both my friend and i are veteran total war gamers... london would not be agry even at 100% tax and no garison... we are just to good
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#137 User is offline   Impirion 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 09:45 AM

Lol so far I have crushed US of A (great pleasure :doh:) and am currently taking down India (well, still named the Marathas, but their flag changes to that of India) in terms of Revolutions.

If you want a revolution, raise tax to 100 %, burn down all the buildings providing bonuses to happiness, declare war with your neighbour so they invade and you should be good to go!

Imp
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#138 User is offline   beru 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 10:52 AM

yes we came to that too... but its so costy...*sob*
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#139 User is offline   Impirion 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 11:09 AM

Oh and yeah build huuuuuuuuuuge Unis everywhere... and rip down all your farms :doh:
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#140 User is offline   Impirion 

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 10:54 AM

Just realised I am fighting a land war in Asia.... oh noes!!!! The Marathas are gonna crush me..... :D :doh:

This post has been edited by Impirion: 18 March 2009 - 10:55 AM

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