[Hood's Path]

I'm fairly busy this weekend so not sure how much time I'll have to look over things. I'm planning on going back and looking more closely and Tennes, Omtose, GL and Anomandaris. I don't think a fast lynch on Tennes is the best thing to do. I'm still torn as to whether he could possibly be an new player and is having a hard time. I'm going to read over his posts and look for patterns or suspicious behaviour. Hopefully he will be a bit more active which will give us a bit more to look at. He has been asked several times now though to post a bit more and he's not really stepping it up. I just don't want to speed lynch him in case he is inno as we have no CF.

@ Tennes please try to post a little more, even if your unsure you can always post something for discussion purposes it doesn't have to be a vote

I feel we did the right thing with the lynch on Kaschan, the way he was defending himself made him seem very suspicious to me. Put together with the opinion of Kesso, it made a strong enough case to get my vote. Of course without a CF we can't know for sure and this again is why I think we have to be careful at this point with things like a speed lynch or jumping on trains.

[Meanas]

I am not going to be on very much today. Weekends are my free time and as such I have a ton of errands and what not to run. The case on silanah does have some merit but I personally like my case on Galayn lord better. I want to see Tennes post more and I think that it would be a mistake for us to allow him to live very much longer. If he is a killer then he would be getting a free pass, same if he is a necro. The fact that he is such a low poster I think also makes him a target for recruitment. As I don't want someone to get speed lynched and there are double voters out there I am going to hold off voting for a while. Plus I want to see Galayn Lords defense of my case against him.

[Anomandaris]

And so now we turn to Omtose. This one is split up into two sections due to quote restrictions.

If you cast your minds back, he took some flak on Day 1 for 'revealing Killer' in the initial Day 1 Spamfest. Not something I really place much stock in, if I'm honest. But once that storm died down, he started off by being fairly non-commital about the hot topic at the time - a Serc Lynch.

Omtose, on Jan 20 2009, 09:53 PM, said:

Meh. I don't really like the Serc case, as I said before, but Thyr, you're sure throwing out a good amount of defense for the absent Serc, who did a more than decent job himself. I'm starting to wonder why... like me, you don't like the Serc case. Fair enough.

But you too must see that it's better to have a lynch than no lynch at all - and with 2 hours or so left, a massive switch to D'riss would be.... hmmm, hard to pull off - but it could frustrate having any lynch at all. Not to mention, it would be totally weird. Cause the way I see it, people would mostly do it to pleasure you or keep Serc alive. Which means that the train was on a suspicious person, in the first place.

I'll check back in 30 or so, see what way to vote, because I want a lynch, and if nothing, the Serc train will provide a ton of info.

This is indicative of his style on Days 1 and 2 - he doesn't jump to conclusions or make hasty decisions, but instead runs alongside the train before hopping on at the last moment. A little while later:

Omtose, on Jan 20 2009, 10:20 PM, said:

Vote Serc

Sorry sir/madam, but your lynch is going to give us a lot of information.
Depending on the result, we can peg Thyrllan for either fake-symping you or symping you, and whether guilty or not, we have a very interesting train to boot.

D'riss/ HP, if they even become lynchworthy, not so much. Their train will be next to worthless worthless due to being very speedy, and once again, it only leaves Thyrllan as the one pushing their lynch... next to you of course.

Naturally, your own train would then be taken apart but since we don't have your CF, well... we wouldn't know what conclusion to draw from its examination to start with, and with two groups of scum, I wouldn't want to jump to the conclusion that you're inno if the lynched one is scum - could be you're just on the other evil team.

More of the same. Casts a vote this time (which was the hammer, as it turned out), but is not at all convinced of the strength of the case. In general seems to be "middle of the road". (Which is a term that came up a lot later, as you might well remember ).

So, bring on Day 2. Omtose was very quiet on this day - only a few things of note:

Omtose, on Jan 21 2009, 12:28 PM, said:

Liosan, on Jan 21 2009, 11:47 AM, said:

Kessobahn, on Jan 21 2009, 10:38 AM, said:

Thyrllan, on Jan 21 2009, 11:36 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on Jan 21 2009, 10:32 AM, said:

Emurlahn (Stalker) is dead. He was a Psychopath.

Also, I thought we were getting 2 kills, creature and psycho.
And since it was a psycho that died, it must be a creature kill.
But then, what happened to psychos?

Edit: Or a vig, in which case, both creatures and psychos failed?

They could've hit a witch, are there healer's in this game? I guess I should read the role list better, or there could've been a recruitment. Which basically means we have to consider the possible players that would be a natural target for both the killers and the cult

true, but if we get the necromancers their recruits will die, again. So i think we need to look at our necromancer suspects, the good thing about the serc train is it possibly has one killer and one necromancer on it. We know there were two players with double votes, so i doubt the killer or necromancer/creature would have that ability (though a symp might) so we are looking at ten with maybe two or three evil in it.

The fact that emurlahn wasnt on it is an added bonus. Also the fact that its likely the creature killed emurlahn shows the necromancer team isnt as organised as they could be, or emurlahn might have been recruited. Can the necromancers recruit a killer?

As others said: I doubt necro's can recruit killers.

I wonder about the impact reveals are going to have on the game. Usually, you expect a revealed inno to die, but with this cult around, it would just mean an obvious (but roled) recruit for the cult.
As for Creature and Necromancers not being on the same wavelength (yet), faulty coding could be blamed, or maybe a too large suspected-kill-pool existed for the necromancers to add Emurlahn as well, or we have a dead killer who could not be recruited in the first place, whether on a list or not.

Plenty of options, and all of them are second guessing. I agree with examination of the train, but maybe not with the numbers of 2 or 3 scum on the train - 10 people voted, no? That's less than the actual majority of 12 required at that point in time, and gives 13 players who not voted on Lisheo to start with - subntracting the modkill and Emurlahn, that still leaves 11. I think the majority of scum wasn't on the train - although I do suspect that a killer-partner of Emurlahn was on it.

So, after previously saying that the train would provide a lot of information, he is now saying that the scum probably aren't on it? How convenient that Omtose was in fact on the train, and thus can't be scum (Unless he's the killer, hehe). But the bottom line is that it doesn't seem like he has got a whole load of useful information out of the train, which kind of invalidates his earlier statements about the lynch being necessary for the information it provides.

Moving on, his next step is to bring up a case on Galayn Lord. A decent case, although that fact was not apparent to me until Meanas went through and dragged the offending quotes into the light - GL had been acting incredibly suspiciously. Which makes it all the more odd that the next day he has suddenly moved away from GL and latched onto Kaschan. Suddenly, he gets into a little spat with Shadow:

Omtose, on Jan 22 2009, 05:59 PM, said:

Shadow, on Jan 22 2009, 06:49 PM, said:

Omtose, on Jan 22 2009, 07:52 AM, said:

Vote Galayn Lord.

I think you've made a few rather visible mistakes on the past few pages and jumped pretty high each time the mistake was revealed, only to bounce back with another flawed post.

You started by voting Kessobahn - then, upon reaction, you're withdrawing and saying you didn't think things through. Hello, this is the single biggest point so far in the game, why didn't you think before you posted?

Then, you tried to discredit his reveal by pointing out Serc as the possible medium - when that was practically impossible due to the presence of a CF after his death - yet you missed that... again!

It reeks of trying to do some damage control and cast doubt, but done hastily.

Now, I doubt I can get a full train on your ass with the reveal and the light in which it portrays Fener, but since I'll be around for most of the evening and can remove vote any time, it's the best way to point out that you're behaving somewhat erratically.

Also, WTF... shit is hitting the fan and this is what you have to add? No comment on Kess' reveal? No comment on Fener's play? Very odd Omtose, couple that with the fact that you have basically dropped off the map after day 1. Whats up?

See the bold for minor mentions of both reveal and playstyle.
Also, what else was to add? Everything has been said about Kessobahn - the timing (odd), the possibility of an angle/ fake reveal (though I miss the mention of doing it to out the real Medium), the risk-reward scale. Same about Fener - outing codes is a nono...

But the main deal about Fener (being one of the killer's targets, if Kesso is truely the medium, if he didn't lie about the answer he got, if we choose to believe him) is tied to Kessobahn and whether we believe him or not. Now, I'm wary and puzzled, as I didn't judge this a real good move for a medium to make at this point in time, and didn't expect this from the player I think Kesso is, either.
I do believe the way to find out is voting Fener, as said above by me.

Now, I could have typed all that and you could have essentially say the same: same blahblah we heard from everyone else. So I didn't, but I guess people prefer bleating about the obvious over silent agreement.
Also, I've been fucking busy with work. Yesterday I had time to post, but hey, there was the whole bag of dicks thing going on between Ruse and Thyrllan, and after reading all that crap (yes, I read it ), I was so bloody turned off by the game at that stage that I had no wish whatsoever to reply, even if it was a (de)motivational post like 'fuckers, get your act together.'

Needless to say that in the light of my RP on day 1, it would have been fucking hypocritical to boot.

Quite a strong reaction there, but I guess it's a good way to give his GL case some exposure. The fact that he was arguing with Shadow was interesting, particularly seeing as Shadow ended up agreeing with him the next day.

[Anomandaris]

Here's the second part, which is where the meat is.

Day 3 swings around and now the action really starts. Omtose's initial case on Kaschan:

Omtose, on Jan 23 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

Sil's case:

I like it. There are a few things that rub me the wrong way about the way Silanah posts it though.

1) Kaschan's consistently pushing attention onto Korlat without making a proper case, or presenting it as a case.
There is also twice a mention of Tennes, spread out over the days, so what we can conclude is that Kaschan is sticking to his guns. In that light, I dislike Silanah's statement of 'him being happy pushing a lynch on low posters that are not of his cult': jumping to assumptions here, and the target of that statement at that time was Silanah themselves.
But, the fact that Kaschan is consistent will future later, so keep it in mind.

2) the presentation of Kaschan trying to serve off Kessobahn as a liar.
He keeps the possibility open, specifically mentions it, but also says we should lynch Fener. He does present a sort of weak effort to lessen the suspicion on Fener (did nothing really scummy, it wasn't a code, we should wait for him).
Hold on, this last bit comes back later, too.

3) Kaschan 'holding off the train': plenty of people who do not want a speed lynch, I'd hardly call this unique and we should view it not by itself as a sign of being scummy (heck, I said the same thing ) but within the context of what he further says and does. See below, for he does not apply it consistently.

4) There's this gem.

Quote

Yeah, likely thing is we're just going to lynch Fener. But seems a bit rushed to lynch him without a response, if we have the chance to wait.

Having said that, haven't seen him on in a while so I reckon he's just given up the ghost and is avoiding the thread. That's what I do when I'm scum and been found out tongue.gif

eta. corrs post.

Definite weirdness. Day one - claim killer, then disappear. Day 2, vote random person when there is a massive lynch target to be addressed. Maybe Omtose is not really paying attention.

We shouldn't speedlynch, is the essence of his post. And then, I get named for weirdness exactly because I do not speed up the train, but say I am around to change votes... odd.
More, GL is called 'a random person' when his posts at that time WERE decidedly off and he WAS jumpy, and my vote on GL was exactly to both call attention to this, AND not speed the train to a premature lynch. See what he does here - cover for GL, and call attention on me. Nice diversion, especially if your cult member/recruit is going down, but there's 1 more guy to save.

5) the reactions to Korlat's vote and to Kesso's feelings.
I'm not going to say that Kessobahn was right about Kaschan also being scum. What I will say is that Kaschan has been overly dismissive of anything Kesso said after the lynch, for example, of the CF mechanic. Naturally, he knew his life would be on the line, next, if Kesso could continue his quest. Now, notice what happens what he's saying now: nothing but gut (twice in one post), he had nothing on me, no case, no evidence.

Damage control.

Added to that the brusque dismissal of GL's statements during and after Kesso's hunt on Fener by me calling attention to that as 'chasing a random person', and I a triangle of Fener, Kaschan and GL is developing as a group of scum in my mind.

Kaschan had given up on Fener where GL didn't, but GL made that defense way too clumsily. He indirectly downplays the attention I called to GL, thereby protecting a possible partner. He downplays Kesso's feelings on himself, as if proper evidence ever really mattered in Mafia... where the only solid piece of irrefutable evidence is by a confirmed finder or CF.
The gut is leading, and Morgoth has a pretty good gut.

So, all in all, I believe Kaschan is scum.
He's been covering for someone I find scummy, he's been consistently naming 2-3 people that are basically unlynchable as it stands as they are on the radar as lowposters, but haven't made slips --> giving the sense he's searching and participating, but provide a nice cover to hide behind, and he's right now defending himself by calling for facts - when he full well knows every 'fact' can be discarded or called in doubt unless a finder reveals.

Vote Kaschan

To start with he basically rubbishes Silanah's case, much as I just did in my case on him. The bits where he is actually suspicious of Kaschan are the last two points. #4 seems a little OMGUS-y - Kaschan obviously didn't pay much attention to Omtose's case, so he uses it against him. The problem was that because Omtose's case didn't really have any quotes in where the offending evidence could be brought to light (as Meanas did so well later), so on first glance it didn't look that strong. I guess you can take it either way - if you think they're both scum, then it's an attempt to downplay the case against a partner, if you aren't so sure you can read it as an oversight. There's a point there, but it's not especially strong.

#5 is an inevitable consequence of someone pointing a finger at you without much to back it up. How do you deal with it? Well, you can either make a big deal of it, which isn't usually such a good idea because people say you're being rather jumpy, or you can try and laugh it off/dismiss it. Seems like Kaschan chose the latter - and I can't really fault him for that. Obviously if you're scum you want to avoid getting lynched, but innos don't want to get lynched either, seeing as it is rather detrimental to their own team's chances. So that point doesn't seem to be very strong either to me.

Based on these two points, Omtose places a vote. I can't say I haven't placed votes on less evidence (see my case on Korlat on Day 2, it's laughably weak ), but mine haven't picked up any steam. I would not call this an especially good case by any stretch of the imagination, especially seeing as he was on what seemed like a more substantial vein of evidence when he brought up GL the day before. But Omtose seems a lot more sure of himself:

Omtose, on Jan 23 2009, 04:43 PM, said:

I really don't understand what is up with the sudden voting for Tennes. We have the scum dancing to our tune and killing for damage control instead of furthering for their goals. The cult probably failed its recruitment, why else would we have had 2 NKs last night. The trail seems hot for where to go based on what Morgoth revealed, and even if the Norwegian is proved to be wrong about Kaschan or Kaschan gets away without a lynch or answers the cases against him, we've got content to go on with.

I'd say both Sil and I have got a decent case.

And yet, everyone since us is voting for a fucking low poster. What are you hoping to do, pressure him into gaming more?

If he truly lacks time, he can't invest more and should allow himself to be modkilled rather than cling on - we'd waste a lynch and a day of gaming for something P-S would do eventually.
If it is strategy, he will only post 1-3 times, parrot the prevalent view 'as content' and dive under again with a lot of mea maxima culpa and I'll promise I'll do better while giving us the finger in SH. We've all done that once upon a time (sole exception is probably teholbeddict, who's new after all )

If it then comes to a lynch, and he is an inno, well, we've given the scum an entire day + weekend to dig in and muddy the waters and giving the same scum a decent time to get their act together. If he is scum, then at the least he's a silent one, can't manipulate us that way - much better to find the active ones first who will defend themselves and their fellow scum.

The whole view of the game is not going to get any clearer with the lack of a CF - if we give scum the time to distance and throw up smoke screens again, we may well give away the lead I feel we have right now.

I underlined that last bit because it shows that he has been thinking about the lack of CFs too. Nothing especially scummy in that, just thought I'd point it out. However, what I do find a little suspicious is the following: the general gist of his statement is that he feels the scum are in disarray because of them getting rid of Kessobahn last night, and that now is the time to act. This doesn't seem right to me. Getting rid of the Medium is kind of like switching the light off - we're left groping around in the dark, unable to tell if what we're doing is the right course of action or not. The scum leaders, however, know perfectly well who is on their team - they have good night vision, to continue the analogy. Getting rid of Kessobahn was a calculated move, not one of desperation - now both sets of scum (particularly the psychos - the necros might find it useful to know if the psychos numbers are diminished, though it is not entirely necessary for them). I read this as Omtose trying to cast the situation in a light that allows him to control the focus of the group, and he succeeds - Kaschan got lynched, after all.

Next up: a contradiction of sorts.

Omtose, on Jan 23 2009, 05:33 PM, said:

Liosan, on Jan 23 2009, 06:16 PM, said:

Omtose, on Jan 23 2009, 04:43 PM, said:

I really don't understand what is up with the sudden voting for Tennes. We have the scum dancing to our tune and killing for damage control instead of furthering for their goals. The cult probably failed its recruitment, why else would we have had 2 NKs last night. The trail seems hot for where to go based on what Morgoth revealed, and even if the Norwegian is proved to be wrong about Kaschan or Kaschan gets away without a lynch or answers the cases against him, we've got content to go on with.

I'd say both Sil and I have got a decent case.

And yet, everyone since us is voting for a fucking low poster. What are you hoping to do, pressure him into gaming more?

If he truly lacks time, he can't invest more and should allow himself to be modkilled rather than cling on - we'd waste a lynch and a day of gaming for something P-S would do eventually.
If it is strategy, he will only post 1-3 times, parrot the prevalent view 'as content' and dive under again with a lot of mea maxima culpa and I'll promise I'll do better while giving us the finger in SH. We've all done that once upon a time (sole exception is probably teholbeddict, who's new after all )

If it then comes to a lynch, and he is an inno, well, we've given the scum an entire day + weekend to dig in and muddy the waters and giving the same scum a decent time to get their act together. If he is scum, then at the least he's a silent one, can't manipulate us that way - much better to find the active ones first who will defend themselves and their fellow scum.

The whole view of the game is not going to get any clearer with the lack of a CF - if we give scum the time to distance and throw up smoke screens again, we may well give away the lead I feel we have right now.

I have stated that i am voted for tennes because i think he is scum, he isnt a low poster, there is zero content in any of his posts, he is coasting through the game. I want to hear from kaschan before i vote him off, what is your rush? There are twenty something hours left and not everyone is on yet.

I getting pretty tired of people coming on with this "i am right" attitude, if we only go for the first case that comes up and don't look at more than one person the killers or necromancers are going to win. They wont even have to try hard to do it. With no coroner finder the only thing we have is seeing how people react to trains, if everyday we come on and select one person and lynch them, we arent going to be able to discover anything. That you are advocating not discussing possibilities beyond your case is just a ridiculous stand point to take.

Going straight for the first case and rush it to a lynch is not exactly what I advocate, and you know it.
I want to pressure people for answers, not to change their gamestyle by saying 'or else you're dead'. If someone comes up with a case on another player, I'll read and consider it, add to it if I can, but I just don't see the point right now of voting Tennes for reasons outlined above.

Note the underlined. Now, what happens when someone actually posts a case on someone else?

Omtose, on Jan 23 2009, 07:15 PM, said:

Thanks for adding that, Meanas.

That was exactly why I voted Galayn Lord during the Fener train - to call attention to all that.

But according to Kaschan, this was nothing, and not worth calling attention to, or voting for.
See my point in thinking he was/is defending Galayn Lord?

Little to nothing to add to the case, which I suppose is fair enough considering that he was the one who made it originally. But he doesn't even give it the time of day - he immediately moves the focus back onto Kaschan with the last paragraph. It seems that everything else is secondary to getting the Kaschan lynch, despite his claims to the contrary. 

Omtose, on Jan 23 2009, 07:41 PM, said:

Kaschan, on Jan 23 2009, 08:24 PM, said:

Meanas, on Jan 23 2009, 07:20 PM, said:

Omtose, on Jan 23 2009, 07:15 PM, said:

Thanks for adding that, Meanas.

That was exactly why I voted Galayn Lord during the Fener train - to call attention to all that.

But according to Kaschan, this was nothing, and not worth calling attention to, or voting for.
See my point in thinking he was/is defending Galayn Lord?

Yeah I did see your point. I actually thought that your vote at the time was a good move. I wasn't going to move mine at the time cause I thought that Fener should be lynched. But Galayn lord pinged the shit out of my radar. I wish that Morgoth had tried to make a stronger case against Fener rather then reveal. It might have taken a little bit longer but I think people would have lynched him eventually. Cause now we won't know if we lynch scum or not. But what is done is done so now we just have to struggle on. I do think that lynching the two people who had the most suspicious reactions to morgoths reveal and to feners lynch is a good place to start.

Woah, no way am I getting labelled with defending GL. I called Omtose out because he came in mid-way between a situation where we either had an undead (Fener), or a guy who was falsely claiming him to be so (Kesso), and Omtose voted for someone else entirely?

All I said was that this was a strange move. It was, and I would see it as such in any game I ever play.

In the above situation, you lynch one, and if it turned out to be a mistake, you lynch the other. This is the way it's done. For someone to advocate lynching someone else entirely at that point is strange. Hence my post.

As much fun as this is, I've got to go out now. Catch you guys later.

Funnily enough, you've been dismissing my vote for GL all this time as voting someone at random - the quotes above show it wasn't just someone, but someone who did a lot of eating words. Now that it is all in a concise post, you all of a sudden had nothing to do with it. You still think my vote for GL was unwarranted and illogical and worth calling me out for?

This post hammers home to me the OMGUS-y nature of the point Omtose is trying to make. Kaschan tries for an apology, but Omtose is having none of it, by this time he is convinced and can't be swayed. It's not the best defence at this stage, to be fair, but it still makes me feel that Omtose is not acting quite as rationally as he purports to.

So, in conclusion, it seems that Omtose has become a lot more aggressive now that the CFs are gone. While on Days 1 and 2 he was willing to fade into the background for the most part, popping up to direct us to look at GL late on day 2 aside. Day 3, he comes out and makes a case, and defends it with a tenacity out of proportion with its strength. He has seized on the opportunity to control the discussion, and has succeeded to the point at which he managed to push through a speed lynch. I find this to be very suspicious.

I won't place a vote on him yet, because the Shadow case it yet to come, and that one has the most pronounced differences in style. Unfortunately, RL calls me away at this point, but as soon as I am free again I shall return to write up the last case for your viewing pleasure.

[Anomandaris]

Meanas, on Jan 24 2009, 07:50 PM, said:

I am not going to be on very much today. Weekends are my free time and as such I have a ton of errands and what not to run. The case on silanah does have some merit but I personally like my case on Galayn lord better. I want to see Tennes post more and I think that it would be a mistake for us to allow him to live very much longer. If he is a killer then he would be getting a free pass, same if he is a necro. The fact that he is such a low poster I think also makes him a target for recruitment. As I don't want someone to get speed lynched and there are double voters out there I am going to hold off voting for a while. Plus I want to see Galayn Lords defense of my case against him.

Before I go, just thought I should point out that I still consider the case on GL to be a good one, and definitely worth pursuing, even if one of my suspects was one of the ones who first called attention to it. I wouldn't be especially displeased with a GL lynch, if it came down to it, but I figure I should put all this other stuff out there.


Off for real this time, hopefully the thread will pick up a little while I'm gone, it's rather empty at the moment. The weekend makes all the difference, I guess.

[Silanah]

Wow, not a lot has happened while I was away.

[Shadow]

Just checking in. I see I have a case against me coming up. Hurray!

So no NK's. I would probably guess that the witch used her powers. Unless Kasch was the creature and maybe the Necros got the killers kill.

I really like the GL case and will add some things that I have found later, I really don't have time to post much as I have a bunch of RL stuff to do on the weekends.

@ Annomandaris. Why are you so quick to dismiss the Kaschan case. We had 3 people, with three different view points and 3 different cases. All, I thought, with merit. I think its reasonable to assume Kaschan was a Necro. I believe Kaschan was Necro, it makes me wonder why you are going after the 3 people that were instrumental in taking him down. With no CF, all we have is cases and logic. the further into the game we get with no CF the less solid information we will have to go on. As we were just hit with no CF, we had the most solid information we were going to get. Who would you have voted for? Tennes? We can do that any time and the case is going to be the same. "He doesn't post" Convenient place for a killer to hide at this point. I believe that we need to take down low posters, either day 2 or when we all can't agree on a case.

Anyway, I'll try to get back in 5-6 hours. Hopefully to add to the GL case.

[Rashan]

Now I don't know who the bastard killers are, but I'm gonna JUDY CHOP YE! if ye don't fess up! I mean it, I'll nin-gy chop ye!


NINJY- CHOP!!!!!!!

[Rashan]

drunk rash is drunk...tomorrow, maybe

vote anomandaris

too helpful

probably will change tomorrow

but too drunk

[Silanah]

Dead thread is dead
People should stop having lives and get back to the computer.

[Path-Shaper]

It is day 4 - TIME HAS STOPPED FOR THE WEEKEND BREAK

16 players still playing, 9 votes to lynch, 8 votes for night

1 vote for Tennes (Korlat)
1 vote for Anomandaris (Rashan)

14 have not voted: Anomandaris, D'riss, Galain, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Liosan, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Ruse, Shadow, Silanah, Tennes, Thyrllan.

Note: Time will restart 8am GMT again.

[Liosan]

My head feels three sizes too big for my brain not much happened since i was last on, apart from rashan being even more drunk than i was last night

[Omtose]

A few points to Anomandaris' list of quotes in chronological order:

First, the reaction to the Serc lynch.
You say:

Quote

So, after previously saying that the train would provide a lot of information, he is now saying that the scum probably aren't on it? How convenient that Omtose was in fact on the train, and thus can't be scum (Unless he's the killer, hehe). But the bottom line is that it doesn't seem like he has got a whole load of useful information out of the train, which kind of invalidates his earlier statements about the lynch being necessary for the information it provides.

My whole point was in reply to this (Liosan):

Quote

the good thing about the serc train is it possibly has one killer and one necromancer on it. We know there were two players with double votes, so i doubt the killer or necromancer/creature would have that ability (though a symp might) so we are looking at ten with maybe two or three evil in it.

My reply:

Quote

I agree with examination of the train, but maybe not with the numbers of 2 or 3 scum on the train - 10 people voted, no? That's less than the actual majority of 12 required at that point in time, and gives 13 players who not voted on Lisheo to start with - subntracting the modkill and Emurlahn, that still leaves 11. I think the majority of scum wasn't on the train - although I do suspect that a killer-partner of Emurlahn was on it.

The underlined is far less black-white than your interpretation of it.

Day 2, during the lynch train on Fener:

Quote

Moving on, his next step is to bring up a case on Galayn Lord. A decent case, although that fact was not apparent to me until Meanas went through and dragged the offending quotes into the light - GL had been acting incredibly suspiciously. Which makes it all the more odd that the next day he has suddenly moved away from GL and latched onto Kaschan.

Not exactly odd. There's a good case against Kaschan, and during the night, Kaschan WAS downplaying on everything Kessobahn had been saying since the lynch, and on GL's involvement.
So, I connected GL and Kaschan - GL as covering for Fener where Kaschan thought the whole thing was lost already (although he didn't vote for Fener), and Kaschan then backing up GL.
I literally said this in my case:

Quote

and I a triangle of Fener, Kaschan and GL is developing as a group of scum in my mind.

So, for me, it doesn't matter which one I go for first, I have the luxury of picking a target. I feel I can drag up the Galayn Lord case at any time, it is a pretty strong one, we all agree on that. However, why I should I push a Galayn Lord case when there's a case on Kaschan, who I see as his partner in crime? It would be counterproductive to have the cases compete when one can follow after the other - and one of my major points is the follow up of the previous day - namely, how Kaschan spins GLs failures, so my feelings about GL do return in my case... so no, GL is not gone from my mind. Not at all, actually.

But let's go back to the moment where I see Korlat's vote and Silanah's case... What to do? I feel there's something on Kaschan, I see Sil's case (which I partially agree with - I don't rubbish it but I point out different readings of certain events that Sil brought up - like Kaschan gunning for the same people over and over), and I think that if we let this go, Kaschan could slip under the radar again - while on GL, there's two pages with very strange play and the quotes to prove it - dragging those up again will provide a vote or 5 straight away, I think... but from GL back to Kaschan, the jump & connection is harder to make. It is then simple deduction: I felt that in order to lynch all the three candidates for undead (of which Fener was already dead), going for Kaschan was the best step for me to down them all three.

Hence my amazement on going for Tennes as well. He is on the radar, people tire of him being never here - but that's not a case like there is on both Kaschan and GL (and for the reasons outlined, I feel we should push Kaschan), so, why do it.

Lastly: my reaction to Meanas.
It's a bit laughable that you see me as disagreeing/dismissing. I first and foremost think GL is scum, heck I even voted for him at a time when everyone else is basically charging for Fener. GL's behaviour is there in my case, rather obviously, too. It has been a point of contention in my whole dance with Yellow of Q & A when he adresses my post. Read back, I bring it up three times, three times he dodges it. Then Meanas' case comes, and BAM, Yellow's being shown turning tail three times... the timing was perfect and added to the weight of this particular point.

Had the quotes been brought up earlier, he wouldn't have been seen as dodging that much. So, from a tactical PoV, I feel it reinforces my case against Kaschan and shows his replies to me as being dodgy, continuously. We're also close to a lynch - on a guy I want lynched - what did you expect me to do, change votes? I can't emphasize enough that I think GL is scum, but since I also think Kaschan is and was scum, this was and is a total win-win situation for me: Kaschan near dead, GL shown as a next serious target, great to start a new day with. So, once again, it is simple. Finish what you're doing (lynching Kaschan), pick up the new case the next day. I hope this train of thought sounds logical to you... it sure as hell does so for me.

More, should I have died/been recruited last night, well, we've still got all the quotes out there and another guy to champion the cause. Good for team inno.

As for thinking about CF - ridiculous point. Not scummy in itself, as you say.
But saying killers have night vision and we are groping about... Scum always have that - the question you should ask yourself is: what does it change for us, and what should we do? I had my personal answer for that - go for the throat, don't give them time. Be ruthless.

Examine the situation:
Firstly, we had a few good traces to go with, traces that would become muddied had we waited, which is what you seem to advocate. The only light source (to stay in your analogy) we as team inno will get, is when a reveal lights a match. Evil will be rapidly trying to snuff that match out. 'When in doubt, attack (which is usually leading to a near fatal dose of day 2 syndrome )' We're in doubt all the time now, as we lack any confirmation of our thoughts. But I feel if we start cowering in a corner, we'll be lead by vocal scum by a ring through our nose in no-time.

[Liosan]

Thats actually a very complete defence. i am quite astounded to be honest. I am going to go find this case on galayn lord, but i didnt realise there was so much in it as that.

You have changed your playstyle though quite dramatically, omtose. you are playing much more focused, and when you came under attention earlier in the week you seemed to disappear for a few days. I am slightly concerned by the intensity of your post as you and others have a very sure attitude about the cases you are making. There are two sets of scum, and i am looking for players who i think have possibly targetted someone for death and seen no one recruited, so are in essence recruit finders. When one of my suspects starts making a case i cannot help but feel they know they are right because the night action they performed didnt go through.

In an effort to ease my paranoia, what did you make of anomandaris' case on silanah, another player with a sudden zeal?

Damnit this thread is long, i am officially daunted by the prospect of reading back so many pages to find quotes, so until i heat up and my brain goes into gear i will lay out my main suspects. In no order.

Galayn Lord - Seems to be receiving a lot of heat, ad if there was a connection from fener (likely recruit) then this could be the strongest symp clue we have found. If there is also a kaschan link as claimed by omtose it is likely he is the second necromancer and we should lynch him or guard him if possible.

omtose - what started day 1 was omtose and galain playing killers and it still leaves me somewhat unsettled at how quicly two players could fall into such an rp. there is also a tendancy for day 1 suspects who survive to recieve a free reign for a while and omtose has done just that. When making the kaschan case you totally dismissed my vote on tennes, unwilling to discuss the possibility of his being the silent killer as i was not voting for him due to his low post count, but his total lack of content. you were one of kessobahns three suspects, his other two where a killer and an undead. the fener conenction led us to kaschan and perhaps also to galayn lord which i hope(if the witch sacrificed her bp last night) means that if we lynch galayn lord the necromancers are dead come the dawn. The emurlahn link though and your day 1 rp has you up on my list as either a symp or a second killer. the focus you have placed on finding the necromancers can easily be thought of as a need to see your night kills assured by removing the recruiter.

Anomandaris - I cant find the proper way to describe why i have such an odd feeling about ano, but there is something in his playstyle that just has alarm bells ringing. He is very helpful when he needs to be, but I cannot escape the feeling that there is something strange about him. If i was to guess at the creature, ano would be my top suspect. I recall thinking he was trying to turn the fener train at the time, and he is very vocally against the kaschan train even now. The creature knows his masters, so perhaps we are getting close, his suspects are all people who pushed that train, and it could be a way from stopping them pushing on to galayn lord.

Anomandaris, on Jan 24 2009, 08:07 PM, said:

Meanas, on Jan 24 2009, 07:50 PM, said:

I am not going to be on very much today. Weekends are my free time and as such I have a ton of errands and what not to run. The case on silanah does have some merit but I personally like my case on Galayn lord better. I want to see Tennes post more and I think that it would be a mistake for us to allow him to live very much longer. If he is a killer then he would be getting a free pass, same if he is a necro. The fact that he is such a low poster I think also makes him a target for recruitment. As I don't want someone to get speed lynched and there are double voters out there I am going to hold off voting for a while. Plus I want to see Galayn Lords defense of my case against him.

Before I go, just thought I should point out that I still consider the case on GL to be a good one, and definitely worth pursuing, even if one of my suspects was one of the ones who first called attention to it. I wouldn't be especially displeased with a GL lynch, if it came down to it, but I figure I should put all this other stuff out there.


Off for real this time, hopefully the thread will pick up a little while I'm gone, it's rather empty at the moment. The weekend makes all the difference, I guess.

I did not read too much into this at the time, but after the intensity of omtose post i am lookign at GL like a necromancer, and this is how i would expect the creature to react, making cases and staying close to the hunt, but slowly and quietly trying to divert it.

vote galayn lord

If we want to smoke out the creature, we should set fire to the master.

[Liosan]

damn double post, can a mod remove that first one please?

[Anomandaris]

Right, I had computer problems last night, so I wasn't able to write up the Shadow case then, but I'll get right on that now. Looks like Omtose has posted a defence, I'll have a look at that after I'm done casing Shadow.

[Omtose]

Quick reply to Liosan (I'll get back to the stuff on Silanah):

Quote

Thats actually a very complete defence. i am quite astounded to be honest. I am going to go find this case on galayn lord, but i didnt realise there was so much in it as that.

why, thank you

Quote

omtose - what started day 1 was omtose and galain playing killers and it still leaves me somewhat unsettled at how quicly two players could fall into such an rp. there is also a tendancy for day 1 suspects who survive to recieve a free reign for a while and omtose has done just that. When making the kaschan case you totally dismissed my vote on tennes, unwilling to discuss the possibility of his being the silent killer as i was not voting for him due to his low post count, but his total lack of content. you were one of kessobahns three suspects, his other two where a killer and an undead. the fener conenction led us to kaschan and perhaps also to galayn lord which i hope(if the witch sacrificed her bp last night) means that if we lynch galayn lord the necromancers are dead come the dawn. The emurlahn link though and your day 1 rp has you up on my list as either a symp or a second killer. the focus you have placed on finding the necromancers can easily be thought of as a need to see your night kills assured by removing the recruiter.

Aye, I got a free reign and I've used it to the fullest. The rp possibility with Galain opened up, and I seized it. It has worked perfectly so far: I fully well know the tendency you describe. In this particular case, things came together marvellously. Things wouldn't have worked out the way they did if it was just town vs killers, though.

Now on to your question of my focus on necros:

Simply put: opportunity.

I saw a connection develop that I think is worth following. I haven't found anyone behaving killer-ish, or I'd be over that person, too. Morgoth's reveal and the subsequent Fener-lynch, my own deductions about GL's behavior and the case on Kaschan simply is a good opportunity for me to contribute to team inno's chances. I have very little to lose, as I know I'm on a timer thanks to day 1 - at some point, town just has to worry about my allegiance, have no other/ more pressing issues, and will remove me pre-emptively - so I reasoned that I'd have a day, maybe 2 to put the pressure on, and then be lynched myself.

Best to be very aggressive during that period. What you see now is me making the best of the time I think I have left. Ironically, as long as I laid low, this wasn't true, so playing like I do now is probably hastening my own demise. Galain is after all still coasting freely, despite his day 1 rp .

As for Tennes: I adressed this when I posted about voting on Tennes - if he is a killer (and posting 8 fucking minutes before modkill time makes it fairly obvious that this is strategy, not coincidence/lack of time), then he is a silent one. I prefer removing the evil that's capable of manipulating a pack of sheep first. I think tennes' clock is ticking as well, and he's running out of time to survive, too.

Were I to make a list of lynch/vig targets and in what order (before studying Silanah in detail):
1) Galayn Lord, for being the last point of my triangle and currently, imho, the best lead we have - has he even shown up since we marked him?
2) Tennes. For possibly being a silent killer.
3) me. Because you can't let me live based on day 1.
4) Galain. Because he's still laying low and was involved with me on day 1.

[Liosan]

Are people going to lay down some votes then, even this morning there is a lot to digest, but i do not believe peoples talk unless it is backed up by a vote.

@omtose - there are so many people building into a must remove before end game category that pretty soon we are going to be lynching based solely on that, and it is a very worrying scenario to end up in. What about my suspicions toward anomandaris? Or the fact that kessogoth named you as a suspect?

[Omtose]

Liosan, on Jan 25 2009, 03:14 PM, said:

Are people going to lay down some votes then, even this morning there is a lot to digest, but i do not believe peoples talk unless it is backed up by a vote.

@omtose - there are so many people building into a must remove before end game category that pretty soon we are going to be lynching based solely on that, and it is a very worrying scenario to end up in. What about my suspicions toward anomandaris? Or the fact that kessogoth named you as a suspect?

Vote Galayn Lord.
Because he has to go.

Anomandaris does indeed warrant some investigation - it's worrying me a bit that he's singled out everyone who made a case on Kaschan, but let's say it prevents tunnel vision and gives the three of Silanah, Shadow and me the chance + need to explain ourselves, I think i did so rather satisfactory.
As for Kessogoth naming me as a suspect: it was done on how I behaved day 1 and I for one can't blame him - as I said, my day 1 behavior forces a lynch/vig on me sometime soon.
His reasons then were equally valid now: rp-ing a killer, enjoying the attention and rubbing it in, then diving low. I'm not worried by it.

As for the must-lynch scenario: aye, it is worrying if it continues as killers and recruiters will just pick people not on that list . However, we've had quite a windfall so far, so we can be off-target just a little bit right now.

I'm now out to read the case on Silanah.

[Anomandaris]

Of the three people I've been writing cases on, I left Shadow until last because I felt that the swing in playstyle was the most pronounced from Day 2 to Day 3. In the first two days, Shadow was the epitome of helpfulness. He summarized, he quoted, he made cases. Then suddenly on Day 3 the quoting stops, the detachment from his cases stops and he suddenly becomes very certain of what is going on.

It would be unwieldy for me to post all his cases, so what I'll do is snip out the cases themselves and just leave the conclusions, which are what my case is more concerned with.

Shadow, on Jan 20 2009, 05:25 PM, said:

*snip* train analysis *snip*

So to me the HP, Meanas and Rashan votes seem the most suspicious. If we do get a serc lynch and he CF's inno I would start there as people to look at

In this post, Shadow runs down all the votes cast on Serc and gives a brief comment about whether or not he finds them suspicious. How helpful!

Shadow, on Jan 21 2009, 08:13 PM, said:

*snip* Kaschan reread *snip*

So I guess my synopsis on Kaschan up to this point is that he has stayed fairly consisent I Don't think he is a Necro, he could be a recruit, but I don't see why he would be night killed last night and further why the Necros would assume he would be the NK enough to put him on the list of three. He could be a killer, he was on the Serc train and he hasn't shown much inclination to point fingers and take a stand today yet.

For now I am willing to leave him alone, I think he is more than likely an inno with Killer possibilities.

****Shadow would like to point out that he is in no way PIing or supporting Kaschan in any way. Just putting out there what he saw on his reread so that maybe others can challenge him or glean some information that he didn't****

Shadow goes for a reread and doesn't find much on Kaschan...ironic considering what happened later.

Next up: Galain.

Shadow, on Jan 21 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

*snip* Galain Reread *snip*

All in all... not much there. Some major back and forth on Serc and then a random D'riss vote. I am definately not comfortable with him. But not enough to go on to drop a vote. He could be a killer distancing and, realizing that a Serc lynch was about to happen jumped ship knowing he was inno, he could say "well I thought he was inno, he was, so I must not be scum!" He could be an inno, that just isn't sure of things. He makes some points I agree with about lynching low posters. Could also be a Necro for the same reasons stated above for the Killer. So at this point I am just not sure. I doejust have a weird feeling about him, and the Serc back-n-forth followed by the D'riss vote just doesn't sit right with me. Ok off too eat. I'll look at the Kesso case when I get back.

Once again, doesn't find much. Shadow doesn't do cases, he does rereads - makes him appear very helpful, but never really finding anything of value means that he doesn't get seen as making waves by actually starting a train that will turn out to be wrong.

And now for a little hyperbole:

Shadow, on Jan 21 2009, 11:59 PM, said:

Rashan, on Jan 21 2009, 12:53 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on Jan 20 2009, 01:11 PM, said:

Liosan, on Jan 20 2009, 04:39 PM, said:

Sorry for the lack of posts today but I am getting really slammed in work.

I am quite nervous by how quickly the train has grown though. That is eight votes and serc hasn't had a chance to respond to any of the points made against him. I believe we still have quite a long time left today, but as i am unsure if i will be on later i am leaving my vote where it is. Could someone who will be on closer to the deadline and has voted remove temporarily? Or at least can i urge patience until Serc speaks and is given a chance to address the points i made.

I like how you distance yourself from the lynch train you created. This is about the sneakiest way to try to dodge blame if Serc comes up innocent and I do not like it one bit. You're not on the top of my list yet (mainly because I try my best to avoid meta), but you've climbed quite far in just that little piece of yours.

and my list, for those who wonder:
Emurlahn
Omtose
Fener

... Which I guess warrants a change in votes.

Emurlahn

ANd finally our little Creature is proud of himself, note he never brings up the fact that the creature was the one who killed Emur.

So I say, You are signaling your necro masters, not sure if its Ruse or Thyr, although I am leaning towards Thyr right now. Anyway, thats my case, alot of spam mixed in with some questionable posts, while staying out of sight. Not the best case ever, but I believe it has merit.

wow... this is .... crazy. He just so happened to leave the amount of names that the Necro's get to choose each night. If he comes up undead.... that is a Major slip up.

Listing three suspects is not a 'Major slip up'. If he has three suspects, he lists three suspects, if he has four suspects, he lists four suspects. I'm not a huge fan of these unsubstantiated suspect lists at all, but that one seems to have been at least 2/3 (possibly even 100%, we'll have to see about that) accurate, so I think adding more names he is less sure about and thus diluting it is probably a mistake. Someone is trying to whip up a storm.

Shadow, on Jan 22 2009, 05:46 PM, said:

What's he going to say though?? "no i'm not" If Kess is full of shit, we'll get a CF and know. If Kess is telling the truth, we'll get a CF and know. If he has been recruited, he's not going to tell us anything. I guess the only reason we hold off is if Kess for some reason decided to fake reveal cause he is sure of Fener's guilt. I guess i'll hold off. Who knows, maybe a day vig will come by and take out Kess or Fener and save us the trouble

Now here's an odd post. Throughout the first few days, Shadow has made a point of asking all the people with trains on them who their suspects are (see below). So why would he suddenly stop the practice now? He doesn't go as far as actually casting a vote though, because Shadow has tended to be cautious thus far. (For completeness, here are Shadow's questions on that matter):

Shadow, on Jan 20 2009, 07:00 PM, said:

@ Serc- who are the main suspects you have atm? I'll gladly look at other alternatives. It's just tough to pull away from this huge amount of info that your CF would give us.... but who knows, maybe another train starts and we get even more!!! *gobbles up the info* mmmm tastes like wifom

Shadow, on Jan 21 2009, 07:24 PM, said:

@HP who are some of your suspects. why?

*snip* Places vote for Galayn Lord *snip*

@GL who are your suspects. Why?

Right, so now we get on to day 3, and suddenly Shadow has something that convinces him.

Shadow, on Jan 23 2009, 05:09 PM, said:

I'm here.

Synopsis. No New Recruit: Good ( though gould have been a vig, creature kill and a killer kill...lets hope not)

No CF:Bad

Not sure what to make of the Ampleas Kill. Though I did kinda peg him as PI.. he was on no one's radar and actually I don't remember anyone bringing him up. Probably the Killers kill as they were probably trying to get people that wouldn't be recruited.

@Sil's Case- Good job. I agree that it did seem like he was trying to delay the Fener lynch as well as pushing it at low posters. I know I did a synopsis on Kaschan and based a non Necro view on him because of a statement he made... and I think I fell into his trap. Good move Kaschan.

So along with Morgoth's feelings. (he has been amazing in the games I have played), and Sil's case ( mostly the slowing of the Fener lynch) AND this:

this is the main reason I want to vote Kasch, especially combined with Sil and Morgoth.

I can't see any reason that the Necro's wouldn't Recruit Kess SOMEONE was going to target him. he was ripe for the recruiting. The ONLY REASON the necro's wouldn't recruit Kesso and increase there numbers is that they were afraid of the CF. They knew Kaschan was going to be looked at hard today because of Morgoth and the Fener CF. They knew he was a very possible lynch. They didn't want that CF. They need as much confusion going around as possible to get us off the backs of the other Necro (s?) They didn't recruit Kess because they didn't want a CF on Kaschan.

vote Kaschan

Right, so his reasons for voting are Silanah's case, which as both Omtose and myself have showed is a very weak case, and Morgoth's feelings. The latter carries a little more weight than Kaschan gave them credit for (they were key in getting him lynched) but still are not the strongest of justifications. And the whole thing about the Necros not recruiting so we don't get to see Kaschan's CF seems like flawed reasoning to me. What do the necros care if we know that we've managed to hit one of them? We get a little bit of evidence based on people's reactions to the case, I guess, but surely they'd stand more to gain if Kaschan was inno? Now we're on the wrong track, and have no way to tell. If Kaschan were guilty, it would have been in their interests to keep the CFs in play and be vocal in their criticisms of him, thereby giving them something to point to later if and when suspicion comes back around to them. So, not convinced by this either.

Shadow, on Jan 23 2009, 05:27 PM, said:

@ Liosan- I agree, and Tennes has come across as a somewhat cavilier low poster. I would have no problem voting him off. But right now, I think we have a good case on Kaschan. A really good case.

A really good case? Really? Omtose hasn't even made his case at this point. At least his case actually had some substance to it - Silanah's and Shadow's are rather weak, and to call this a 'really good case' at this stage is to my mind a gross exaggeration.

Here Shadow restates his case...but even now, when it is dissected it doesn't seem that strong:

Shadow, on Jan 23 2009, 07:14 PM, said:

Kaschan, on Jan 23 2009, 11:06 AM, said:

Shadow, on Jan 23 2009, 07:04 PM, said:

Kaschan, on Jan 23 2009, 10:14 AM, said:

Shadow, on Jan 23 2009, 05:09 PM, said:

So along with Morgoth's feelings. (he has been amazing in the games I have played)

See what I mean? Morgoth's gut feeling must be right, because he's been amazing in the games Shadow has played.

Damn, just lynch me now, it's open and shut.

Way to take the main reason I voted for you out of my quote. Thats not suspicious at all. You sir are Necro scum

I was making a point. Which completely stands. This entire thing has been based on Morgoth's "amazingness", which not only is not founded on anything, it's also proved to be counterproductive (i.e. his reveal, and the whole unnecessary part of it).

Fine point made. Its not based on just Morgo's gut as you keep trying to make us think. Its based on:
1. Middle of the road behavior
2. Somewhat supporting a CF'd Undead ( it doesn't matter if you wanted to hear his case before a vote. The fact we have is that YOU DIDNT VOTE)
3. And the big one. please explain this. Why the hell wouldn't the Necro's recruit Kess. Please give me a reason. The Reason is that they didn't want a CF on you. Otherwise a CF would benefit them, because they would know if their creature died and/or if they hit a killer. it would also swell their numbers by 1 and be able to cause Havok for at least a day among the innos with a live Kess.

It doesn't add up Kaschan.There are to many "coincidences" Your play points to you being a Necro.

1. OK, that one is alright, but you really need more than just that to back it up - by itself it is nothing. I don't find the other two points convincing in the slightest.

2. Not voting =/= Would not have voted. Allow me to point out that Shadow didn't vote for Fener either! Waiting to hear the other side of the story is not scummy behaviour - even if they are going to be lynched anyway, it's always more satisfying to know that they were at least given a chance to defend themselves. So this, no matter how forcefully you want to put it, is not a good point.

3. As I explained above, the necros not recruiting Kess does not support the hypothesis that Kaschan is scum. In fact, as I've been saying, it's more likely that the opposite is true, and that the necros are trying to convince us that we have hit scum, thereby pulling the wool over our eyes. Putting so much weight on this is very suspicious to my mind - when you've come up with a clever strategem like the one I've outlined, it would suit you to try and twist the facts to fit the opposite conclusion.

You know what I was saying about how we can't be certain of anything anymore due to the lack of CFs, and how the scum would try to convince us we were on the right track because we can't tell anymore? Check this out:

Shadow, on Jan 23 2009, 09:44 PM, said:

Well i really think Kaschan was Necro so i'll do it.



So I guess we wait for night. I'll be around for the next couple hours if anyone wants to chat

In summary: Shadow's playing style has changed. He has gone from the helpful but not especially commital player of Days 1 and 2, to someone who has become convinced over a weak case. He has been trying to convince people that he was right when we have no way of knowing that this is the case, and when it would seem to be a favourable strategy for the scum to use. He was the most rabid of the three in pushing the Kaschan lynch yesterday, but without a whole lot of evidence to back himself up. I find him to be the most suspicious of the three.

Vote Shadow